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Catholic church refuses call to reveal Confessed sex abusers
- Thread starter Jolly_Penguin
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If so, I agree.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
But now you are talking about paedophile priests. I think that is a separate discussion
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I don't think protecting children is an available option
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I have a problem here--did they truly try to cover it up, or are they in denial?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Can you please stop saying outrageously inflammatory things? It's unnecessary. You must surely know you're in the wrong here.
No, shit Catholic parents most often are in denial of stuff like this. It would happen to the best of us. How about not adding to their grief?
Between covering it up deliberately and being in denial? Quite a lot of difference actually.
Lion IRC
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Well then somebody should tell that to the victims.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Refusing to reveal abusers is a business decision. The owners don't want to fork over more money so they're not going to find a way to say that these confessions were somehow not real confessions.
The owners will annul your marriage because it will keep you in the pew, keep the money coming in, so they'll find a way to say you were never really married for thirty years and seven children.
It's all about the money.
The owners will annul your marriage because it will keep you in the pew, keep the money coming in, so they'll find a way to say you were never really married for thirty years and seven children.
It's all about the money.
ronburgundy
Contributor
I'm for whatever policy would reduce the number of child rapes. However, it is not clear cut what would do that.
The moment that there is any formal change in reporting such confessions, the confessions will stop. So, while we will prevent future crimes of some of those who have already confessed, there will be no long term benefit to reducing such crimes.
It is plausible, if not likely, that talking to priests does some good in preventing some molestations that would otherwise occur. As much as I despise the RCC and Christianity in general, most priests are basically decent human beings who would want to prevent child rape. Most are likely to try their best to convince the person not to act or seek other professional help. That is likely to have some level of impact on at least some potential offenders. After all, if they are confessing to a priest, they view the priest as a moral authority.
Thus, any short term gain of mandatory reporting in catching past offenders will be offset and perhaps result in long term net increase in harm to kids.
Loren suggested something akin to what is required in the US for clinical therapists where only probable future crimes must be reported. The problem with that is that anyone who has already molested a kid is so likely to repeat offend that priest would be required to report pretty much every confession of a past crime.
What could be most beneficial is if the promise of confidentiality remained formerly in place but priests secretly found ways to anonymously alert authorities, who would then investigate without revealing that someone tipped them off.
The church is pretty good at secrets, lying and cover-ups, so they cold use this power for good for once and cover-up a secret strategy of funneling information about pedophiles to the authorities.
The moment that there is any formal change in reporting such confessions, the confessions will stop. So, while we will prevent future crimes of some of those who have already confessed, there will be no long term benefit to reducing such crimes.
It is plausible, if not likely, that talking to priests does some good in preventing some molestations that would otherwise occur. As much as I despise the RCC and Christianity in general, most priests are basically decent human beings who would want to prevent child rape. Most are likely to try their best to convince the person not to act or seek other professional help. That is likely to have some level of impact on at least some potential offenders. After all, if they are confessing to a priest, they view the priest as a moral authority.
Thus, any short term gain of mandatory reporting in catching past offenders will be offset and perhaps result in long term net increase in harm to kids.
Loren suggested something akin to what is required in the US for clinical therapists where only probable future crimes must be reported. The problem with that is that anyone who has already molested a kid is so likely to repeat offend that priest would be required to report pretty much every confession of a past crime.
What could be most beneficial is if the promise of confidentiality remained formerly in place but priests secretly found ways to anonymously alert authorities, who would then investigate without revealing that someone tipped them off.
The church is pretty good at secrets, lying and cover-ups, so they cold use this power for good for once and cover-up a secret strategy of funneling information about pedophiles to the authorities.
Lion IRC
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Assuming the pedophile actually believes in God, satan, hell, etc.
...and assuming they would actually confess the crimes they try so hard to conceal,
...and assuming they believe their (born-that-way) sexuality is somehow a voluntary choice which can be controlled,
...I think priests are technically allowed to assign penance - acts of contrition - which involve something that would amount to turning yourself in or repeating your admission of guilt outside the seal of the confessional. Eg. The (supposedly) repentant pedophile might be commanded (as an act of contrition) to go and apologise to the victim and their family.
Any stated unwillingness to to do so might be taken as a lack of true repentance - which is a necessary element for a valid sacrament of confession.
Beyond that, a priest can't withhold absolution or disbelieve the sincerity of the penitent or violate the secrecy of acts confessed. Although, ironically, as the Church waters down and dilutes doctrines in other areas, it is inadvertently paving the way for priests to make up their own minds about 'teh rulez'.
...and assuming they would actually confess the crimes they try so hard to conceal,
...and assuming they believe their (born-that-way) sexuality is somehow a voluntary choice which can be controlled,
...I think priests are technically allowed to assign penance - acts of contrition - which involve something that would amount to turning yourself in or repeating your admission of guilt outside the seal of the confessional. Eg. The (supposedly) repentant pedophile might be commanded (as an act of contrition) to go and apologise to the victim and their family.
Any stated unwillingness to to do so might be taken as a lack of true repentance - which is a necessary element for a valid sacrament of confession.
Beyond that, a priest can't withhold absolution or disbelieve the sincerity of the penitent or violate the secrecy of acts confessed. Although, ironically, as the Church waters down and dilutes doctrines in other areas, it is inadvertently paving the way for priests to make up their own minds about 'teh rulez'.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
It is an interesting question whether someone who confesses an act of pedophilia to a priest during confession should or could be legally compelled to report the act. Right now, there is a religion-based exemption that seems to be unevenly gifted to the Catholic Church (at least, under US law). The reason for that is likely the fact that the RCC commands such a huge following in US demographics. Other religions are not necessarily given a pass when it comes to civil law. For example, no religion would be allowed to get away with ritual murder of a church member, i.e. human sacrifice, although the RCC gets away with allowing its priests to conceal evidence of murder by someone who confesses it in the confessional. Parents are, under some circumstances, not allowed to get away with letting a son or daughter die by refusing them medical care that would save their lives. However, a Catholic priest is allowed to get away with letting murderers of anyone, including children, get away without notifying authorities.
A priest who receives a confession of sexual molestation is not required to tell the local authorities or even protect the child from further molestation. Normally, one would expect the priest to take action to stop the molestation, but I think that is where the church hierarchy gets into trouble. The behavior of the priest is not likely to stop just because he is moved to a different diocese, and they can't monitor the pedophile every hour of the day. The priest is free to go out and abuse children outside of the church, as long as the ritual sacrament shields him from being reported to civil authorities. So you end up with a situation where the religion itself compromises one's natural sense of right and wrong. This would not happen if the church attempted to torture or kill someone in order to exorcise a demon that was allegedly possessing that person.
A priest who receives a confession of sexual molestation is not required to tell the local authorities or even protect the child from further molestation. Normally, one would expect the priest to take action to stop the molestation, but I think that is where the church hierarchy gets into trouble. The behavior of the priest is not likely to stop just because he is moved to a different diocese, and they can't monitor the pedophile every hour of the day. The priest is free to go out and abuse children outside of the church, as long as the ritual sacrament shields him from being reported to civil authorities. So you end up with a situation where the religion itself compromises one's natural sense of right and wrong. This would not happen if the church attempted to torture or kill someone in order to exorcise a demon that was allegedly possessing that person.
laughing dog
Contributor
The Church could transfer the molesting priest to a sanctuary away from children. Given the number of reports, I guess they'd have to find a very large and remote location.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
I think the first step for preventing a pedophile from raping kids is to make them realize and accept that they are doing something wrong. Catholic confession can help here.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Earth to Lion, priests have always made their own rules. It's called religion. It's why they have the problem. Room...elephant...