Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[Jimmy Higgins]

The reason why some people are stuck on two genders is inertia, in some part religious based inertia.

Nope, it's science and biology.

That is redundant. And likely incorrect. After all, geocentrism was supported by science and astronomy.

But thanks for doing your typical slice and dice and then leave a shit in the thread routine.

 

[pood]

Roe was an interpretation, and nothing more.

It was a precedent setting case.
Stare Decisis, nothing more, nothing less.

It is interesting to find out that you support the Dred Scott decision and the Plessy v. Ferguson decision.

Dude, it is interesting to learn that you flunked remedial reading.

Stare Decisis, nothing more, nothing less.

Pointing out that Elixir's support for Stare Decisis is dependent out the outcome is too subtle for this crowd.

Oh, gosh, really? Did you read the Lincoln passage I cited?

 

[Playball40]

Sex work is work in the same way that child labor is labor.

Bullshit. This view is infantilizing adult women, saying that they have as little agency over their bodies as children.

Call it what it actually is: exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for the sexual gratification of men who don't give a flying fuck about the welfare of the people that they're LITERALLY using.

Again, bullshit. If two people mutually agree to exchange sexual services for money, how is that "exploitation and commodification" any more than any other service profession? And just because one hires a hooker does not mean he does not care about her welfare.

And lastly, there are also women who hire sex workers, as well as male sex workers.

Yikes. I almost agree with Derec. Can't believe I'm writing that. I believe that IF the woman is in her right mind (not being trafficked due to an addiction or debt) AND she chooses to sell her services on HER terms, then I see no moral issue. It should be legal. That is a lot of qualifiers, but that is my thoughts.

 

[Playball40]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

They are. Fucked up ethically and mentally.

 

[Politesse]

The reason why some people are stuck on two genders is inertia, in some part religious based inertia.

Nope, it's science and biology.

Only if you're unlearned on both counts.

 

[thebeave]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Did you even watch the video? There is no hate expressed by CK or RG with reference to people changing their genders. The video clip is only about transwomen competing against non-transwomen in sports and using their locker rooms. They don't like it, and neither do I. Most people don't. I do agree that getting bent about some random adult changing their gender makes no sense. Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you aren't hurting someone else, is my motto.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He said "take care of it", not "dealt with". Anyway, its kind of a stretch to assume that CK meant "lynching" to be synonymous with "take care of it". "Take care of it" can just be a man stepping up and telling Lia (an intact male) to "get the fuck out of the women's locker room, NOW". She's putting words in his mouth by claiming he was talking about lynching. Also, CK was also referring to just this one event involving Riley Gaines and a transgender individual (Lia Thomas), and not "calling for violence against us" (i.e. all transgenders) or "openly calling for the lynching of transgender individuals".

That tweet is a giant clusterfuck.

Yes, but also no. Take care of it like in the 50s and 60s, which didn't mean to exclude from locker rooms. It meant forced conversion therapy. Old school medically backed torture of sorts.

As a note the Twitter post is from 2023.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about what gays and transgender people were subjected to in the 1950s and 1960s in what was considered ethical medical treatment, that today we consider quite barberic. I said so in the post you quoted.

If Kirk meant simply to deny them access, he chose his words poorly.

 

[crazyfingers]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Did you even watch the video? There is no hate expressed by CK or RG with reference to people changing their genders. The video clip is only about transwomen competing against non-transwomen in sports and using their locker rooms. They don't like it, and neither do I. Most people don't. I do agree that getting bent about some random adult changing their gender makes no sense. Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you aren't hurting someone else, is my motto.

I was speaking generally about all the anti-trans hate out there. Anti-trans usually translates into hateful behavior.

No I didn't watch the video. I have stated here many times that I never watch posted videos

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Roe was an interpretation, and nothing more.

It was a precedent setting case.
Stare Decisis, nothing more, nothing less.

It is interesting to find out that you support the Dred Scott decision and the Plessy v. Ferguson decision.

Dude, it is interesting to learn that you flunked remedial reading.

Stare Decisis, nothing more, nothing less.

Pointing out that Elixir's support for Stare Decisis is dependent out the outcome is too subtle for this crowd.

Oh, gosh, really? Did you read the Lincoln passage I cited?

You are not Elixir.

Meanwhile, on topic, do you see any correlation between advocating violence against people you disagree with:
Punching Nazis ‘Should Be a Hate Crime'
and shooting people you disagree with?

It's too bad PyramidHead isn't participating in this thread, he was very active in that one.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oh goody... our uncalibrated moral barometer is here!

 

[Playball40]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Did you even watch the video? There is no hate expressed by CK or RG with reference to people changing their genders. The video clip is only about transwomen competing against non-transwomen in sports and using their locker rooms. They don't like it, and neither do I. Most people don't. I do agree that getting bent about some random adult changing their gender makes no sense. Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you aren't hurting someone else, is my motto.

I was speaking generally about all the anti-trans hate out there. Anti-trans usually translates into hateful behavior.

No I didn't watch the video. I have stated here many times that I never watch posted videos

 

[Playball40]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Did you even watch the video? There is no hate expressed by CK or RG with reference to people changing their genders. The video clip is only about transwomen competing against non-transwomen in sports and using their locker rooms. They don't like it, and neither do I. Most people don't. I do agree that getting bent about some random adult changing their gender makes no sense. Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you aren't hurting someone else, is my motto.

I was speaking generally about all the anti-trans hate out there. Anti-trans usually translates into hateful behavior.

No I didn't watch the video. I have stated here many times that I never watch posted videos

Riley Gaines if FOS

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There have been some pretty bad things but not at the genocide level. Nobody set out to annihilate a population for religious reasons. Yes, there has been genocidal intent towards armed groups, not against groups that aren't attacking.

What, exactly, do you think the Spanish Inquisition was? And weren’t the Nazis ‘good Christians?! What do you think the Crusades were? What do you think ‘mission schools’ were? Oh, sure, they were only a part of the plan but make no mistake: the goal was to beat the Indian out of NA’s and exterminate those who would not be made into useful servants.

Spanish Inquisition: Taking from those who had more wealth than political power to protect themselves. It wasn't anything like genocide.

Crusades: Note what I said about armed. The Crusades were part of the longstanding Christianity/Islam conflict.

Indians: Again, note armed. Yes, they were defending their territory but it was a reaction to armed conflict, not genocide of an uninvolved group. In the ballpark with what's happening in Africa but nowhere near as brutal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The seller is under duress.

Why do you think that a sex worker is under duress, but the people working in an auto parts factory or a slaughter house aren't? Do you think that the people working at McDonald's are doing it out of love for burgers?

What about people who stay with a partner that they can't stand because they can provide a lifestyle that they are not equipped to provide for themselves? Do you think that Melania Trump stays with Donald because she loves him so much?

Where do you draw the line between sex worker and and wife?
Tom

McDonald’s workers are not subject to beatings and worse for not following the bosses’ orders. McDonald’s workers are not expected to provide sex to whoever plunks down their money. Neither are auto workers.

Lots of couples stay together, not out of love but out of habit, economic necessity, economic advantage ( as applies in the Trumps’ case, presumably), malice, etc. some couples stay together ‘for the kids.’

I understand that this may be a novel idea to you but many wives marry and stay with their husbands because they love them. Women no longer exist for the sole purpose of providing God sanctioned sex and legitimate offspring. We are allowed to read, write, have our own bank accounts, property—including businesses and real estate, and to pursue our own wishes hopes and dreams —and careers! aside from ‘serving’ our spouses. Women today mostly marry men they’ve previously slept with and enjoyed the sex enough to want to continue the relationship in a more formalized manner. I know it is difficult for many men to grasp but not only are women fully fledged human beings but some men are loving and caring and skilled enough to make sex a pleasure and not a chore.

Comparing a wife to a sex worker is extremely offensive. It is just as apt to describe husbands as prostitutes.

I think you utterly missed his point. He's not talking about the couples that stay together for love. He's talking about women who stay with their husband because they have no reasonable prospects elsewhere. Or the ones that marry for money. That's prostitution, just in a different package size.

 

[Jarhyn]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Well people get bent about it for two distinct reasons.

One reason is simple idiocy in accepting a byline that the world is simple: that there is sex, and that any behaviors or views or whatever may arise is fixed to a binary of sex that cannot be extracted or viewed separately from the gonads; that there are only two "sexes" and that anything else is "excessive mumbo jumbo".

The second reason is because allowing people to bot have children, socially, creates ladders out of poverty through a lack of economic drag created by having kids, and by making difficulties, the wealthy can restore that economic drag and prevent people from gaining wealth as families and as collectives.

The first reason was engineered for the second reason.

We crave simplicity and hate change. This is human nature. This helped us survive as a species.

The reason why some people are stuck on two genders is inertia, in some part religious based inertia. Also used to think the planet was flat. Then the Earth was the center of the universe. It took a while for heliocentrism to take hold. Finally, there is also the issue of personal identity. People want to believe we choose who we are. It is actually somewhat unnerving to consider our identities are much less controlled by our conscience than we want to admit.

So there are a number of reasons why people would have an issue of shifting from the much more simplified and baseline concept of gender. Much of this issue is not engineered, it is habit and what people are used to. The alt-right use of it as a political weapon... that is fully engineered to take advantage of people.

But you have to ask why that is the inertia most virulently pushed up on us?

The fact is, given between a political weapon that can achieve a primary aim for the wealthy ala keeping the poors poor, and a political weapon that just plays on some facile belief, they will pick the one with an impact that serves them.

You are a fool if you think otherwise, knowing that the wealthy have been playing at this for so long.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He says, in the very same five-sentence long post in which he also calls someone a "cockroach"...

He's a leftist though - just ask him if he's right wing! (He only SOUNDS like that)

I am definitely not a leftist, but I am not a rightist either. It's not a binary choice!

I consider myself a liberal, and I agree with most liberal positions: legal gay sex/marriage, legal weed, legal sex work. I am also for progressive taxation (as long as it does not go overboard) and government services and investments, like ACA or building and maintaining better public transit.

You might want to work on not always appearing to follow the right.

(And your description is an awful lot like where I stand.)

 

[Harry Bosch]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Did you even watch the video? There is no hate expressed by CK or RG with reference to people changing their genders. The video clip is only about transwomen competing against non-transwomen in sports and using their locker rooms. They don't like it, and neither do I. Most people don't. I do agree that getting bent about some random adult changing their gender makes no sense. Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you aren't hurting someone else, is my motto.

Too much common sense in this post!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The seller is under duress. But the buyer wouldn't know that. Legalization and regulation could help remediate this concern, but not solve it. Also, what in the fuck does your hobby horse have to do with the targeted murder of Charlie Kirk?

And why are we to assume the seller is under duress?

The seller is under duress.

Why do you think that a sex worker is under duress, but the people working in an auto parts factory or a slaughter house aren't?

What was the question?
Derec: If two people mutually agree to exchange sexual services for money, how is that "exploitation and commodification" any more than any other service profession?
Jimmy Higgins: The seller is under duress.

I.E. just because two parties have an agreement doesn't mean the agreement is above board. I also didn't claim all sex workers are under duress. A question was asked, I provided a reasonable answer for a situation that is undoubtably not uncommon enough in the sex worker industry. Regarding other workers under duress, chances are there is violation in union or worker rights or sexual harassment. Or if one is discussing general life issues, a woman could, in theory, be allowed to use her body as an ATM, but a woman should be allowed to have other options if they'd rather not but are desperate for money.

Neither of us said that sex workers can't be under duress. We are just saying that it's not reasonable to assume they're always under duress.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Exactly where I stand. How does it harm me? Yeah, a guy tried to pick me up once. So what? It is something that should be disclosed promptly in romantic situations, otherwise it's a total so-what. You want something illegal, either show me the victim(s) or the undue risk of victims. That someone finds the implied or stated message offensive is not enough. That it causes questions that make parents squirm is not enough.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's only going after non-citizens so far. That has to be normalized before he goes after Americans.

If by ‘Americans’ you mean white, sure. But if you mean Black & Latinos who ‘look’ like undocumented immigrants, it’s already normalized. Citizens are being picked up by ICE on suspicion alone, and the right shrugs it off with, ‘Well, once they prove citizenship, they’re let go. That sounds normalized already IMO.

• Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez Wrongfully detained by ICE in Florida for nearly 48 hours despite his citizenship claim. PBS
• Leonardo Garcia Venegas Born in Florida (U.S. citizen), he was detained during a workplace raid in Alabama. His REAL ID was dismissed as “fake” by officials, even after he claimed citizenship. The Guardian
• Peter Sean Brown (ongoing case from past detention) A federal court recently ruled in his favor over a 2018 incident where he was misidentified and held by ICE. American Civil Liberties Union+2Florida Phoenix+2

But of course you wouldn't imagine this is already happening because it's not happening to white people. And honestly, it makes sense you wouldn’t notice, because white people aren’t ICE’s targets.

The claim that America no longer has systemic racism is the biggest lie some Americans keep telling themselves.

Please note that I said "goes after".

What you are showing is that they don't care too much whether they got the right person or not, that that they are targeting Americans. That will come, just not yet.