Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories - Venezuela, the fun in building socialism continues!

[dismal]

You are under the impression that US companies have armies, tanks, jails and secret police?

They do.

They used those things in Iraq for example.

And the US government acted as their agent.

Riiiight. You keep on believing McDonalds attacked Iraq to force them to buy hamburgers.

*backs away slowly*

 

[dismal]

I would have said the problem highlighted in this thread is the problem of placing large amounts of authority over property and people in the hands of a ruling elite has a tendency to produce a corrupt and ruthless ruling elite.

Whereas in unicorn socialism it is assumed the ruling elite will actually be gracious and thoughtful leaders -- as opposed to just locking up the people who say they aren't.

Why is it whenever I hear people go on about "socialism" and how bad it is, it is always in the context of a corrupt dictator? Why can't socialism and democracy co-exist?

Isn't Venezuela a democracy? I mean assuming your definition of democracy is "people vote" and you're not hung up about the government locking up the oppositon and stifling speech.

I think perhaps it's possible that democracy does not necessarily prevent corruption among those who have their hands on controls of power.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Why is it whenever I hear people go on about "socialism" and how bad it is, it is always in the context of a corrupt dictator? Why can't socialism and democracy co-exist?

You mean like in a social democracy? Like Sweden and Denmark?

They are slated to economically collapse any day since 1970.

 

[dismal]

Why is it whenever I hear people go on about "socialism" and how bad it is, it is always in the context of a corrupt dictator? Why can't socialism and democracy co-exist?

You mean like in a social democracy? Like Sweden and Denmark?

They are slated to economically collapse any day since 1970.

In Sweden and Denmark the government owns the means of production?

Do they set prices of basic good?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ok, so the argument that maxparrish is making is that Venezuela isn't Socialist country, but a country that was victimized by totalitarian government that seized the nation's assets for themselves.

Socialism is always a front for taking, the "redistribution" is to cronies as much as possible.

 

[arkirk]

Ok, so the argument that maxparrish is making is that Venezuela isn't Socialist country, but a country that was victimized by totalitarian government that seized the nation's assets for themselves.

Socialism is always a front for taking, the "redistribution" is to cronies as much as possible.

You say things like that because you seem to have no notion of the operating concepts of the various types of socialism being practiced. Not all socialist concepts involve dictators. You are just parroting the same lines you have always parroted here and never have any real answers to issues such as gross income disparity. Yes Virginia, among other things, there will be some redistribution of wealth to accomplish our social goals.

 

[dismal]

Yes Virginia, among other things, there will be some redistribution of wealth to accomplish our social goals.

Such as, in this case, the redistribution of $4 billion of wealth to the dear leader's daughter.

 

[arkirk]

Yes Virginia, among other things, there will be some redistribution of wealth to accomplish our social goals.

Such as, in this case, the redistribution of $4 billion of wealth to the dear leader's daughter.

Source? You seem to expect us to keep track of all the people in the world. I do not think this has been adequately documented to accept it as the truth. Even if it were true that does not mean the "dear leader" had anything to do with it. Actually the disappearance of four billion dollars from an economy the size of Venezuela's would be very serious. I am asking you for the source of your information.

 

[dismal]

Such as, in this case, the redistribution of $4 billion of wealth to the dear leader's daughter.

Source? You seem to expect us to keep track of all the people in the world. I do not think this has been adequately documented to accept it as the truth. Even if it were true that does not mean the "dear leader" had anything to do with it. Actually the disappearance of four billion dollars from an economy the size of Venezuela's would be very serious. I am asking you for the source of your information.

Tip: it's what the OP was about.

 

[arkirk]

Source? You seem to expect us to keep track of all the people in the world. I do not think this has been adequately documented to accept it as the truth. Even if it were true that does not mean the "dear leader" had anything to do with it. Actually the disappearance of four billion dollars from an economy the size of Venezuela's would be very serious. I am asking you for the source of your information.

Tip: it's what the OP was about.

Not true...no mention of anybody absconding with$4 billion. We already know about the Saudis doing an old fashioned Rockefeller squeeze on their competition with maximized oil production. I have already covered the fact that Venezuela was relying in oil to sustain its economy. It is about all they had. There are however efforts to increase the agricultural sector of the economy. These changes are simply the result of societal inertia after years of foreign exploitation and too much reliance on the oil MARKET to keep the country going. They also have the same American Interest Section doing whatever they can to make the going even tougher. Where is the doumentation on the $4 billion?

 

[dismal]

Socialist economies, even under the best of circumstances, usually turns out to be an ordinary disaster. Combine it with corruption and a proletariat bus driver for leadership and you have the world's largest insane asylum.

The WSJ has a nice photo slide show on the latest (behind a paywall so try google search, which seems to bypass direct link paywall).

http://www.wsj.com/articles/venezue...gger-long-lines-hunger-and-looting-1440545403

See the fun: shoppers waiting in long lines, then having their fingerprints scanned while buying government rationed corn flour at the "Latino Supermarket" (so as to prevent them from getting more than one ration); other shoppers in long lines (with nearly empty carts) in the barren-shelved state-run Bicentenario supermarket, which sells government subsidized food.

Marval as others scavenge for things to loot from a National Guard headquarters that was burned by anti-government demonstrators hours before on Aug. 14; gape at the armed soldiers standing guard over bags of food confiscated from people who illegally sought to buy contraband food goods for higher prices...

In the meantime:

Being the ex-President's daughter pays off: Hugo Chavez's ambassador daughter is Venezuela's richest woman
Diario las Americas claims that Maria Gabriela Chavez, 35, has $4.2billion in assets held in American and Andorran banks
Hugo Chavez famously declared 'being rich is bad' and during his lifetime railed against the wealthy for being lazy and gluttonous
Efforts to determine Chavez's wealth have been made before, without much luck
By PETE D'AMATO FOR DAILY MAIL ONLINE

The daughter of Hugo Chavez, the former president who once declared 'being rich is bad,' may be the wealthiest woman in Venezuela, according to evidence reportedly in the hands of Venezuelan media outlets.Maria Gabriela Chavez, 35, the late president's second-oldest daughter, holds assets in American and Andorran banks totaling almost $4.2billion, Diario las Americas reports.

The figure would make Gabriela Chavez wealthier than media mogul Gustavo Cisneros, whom Forbes named the wealthiest Venezuelan earlier this year with $3.6 billion in assets.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ela-s-richest-woman-according-new-report.html

Does that help?

 

[arkirk]

Socialist economies, even under the best of circumstances, usually turns out to be an ordinary disaster. Combine it with corruption and a proletariat bus driver for leadership and you have the world's largest insane asylum.

The WSJ has a nice photo slide show on the latest (behind a paywall so try google search, which seems to bypass direct link paywall).

http://www.wsj.com/articles/venezue...gger-long-lines-hunger-and-looting-1440545403

See the fun: shoppers waiting in long lines, then having their fingerprints scanned while buying government rationed corn flour at the "Latino Supermarket" (so as to prevent them from getting more than one ration); other shoppers in long lines (with nearly empty carts) in the barren-shelved state-run Bicentenario supermarket, which sells government subsidized food.

Marval as others scavenge for things to loot from a National Guard headquarters that was burned by anti-government demonstrators hours before on Aug. 14; gape at the armed soldiers standing guard over bags of food confiscated from people who illegally sought to buy contraband food goods for higher prices...

In the meantime:

Does that help?

Actually not much. One of the pages mentioned a fake receipt from a fictitious bank. I have felt for the longest time that the outside world's complaints are aimed at a disadvantaged people with leadership that actually should be better educated. If it is true the daughter of Chavez has $4.2 billion, they ought to go after that. How she got it and whether it is even true is still questionable. One thing is for sure...to get that kind of money you have to have pulled one hell of a lot of strings.

 

[dismal]

If it is true the daughter of Chavez has $4.2 billion, they ought to go after that.

Who's "they"?

 

[untermensche]

Funny how Forbes left this alleged billionaire off their list.

If anybody actually believes this woman has billions of dollars they will believe anything.

Not one shred of evidence comes from that Daily Mail story.

But fodder for the gullible sells.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Socialism is always a front for taking, the "redistribution" is to cronies as much as possible.

You say things like that because you seem to have no notion of the operating concepts of the various types of socialism being practiced. Not all socialist concepts involve dictators. You are just parroting the same lines you have always parroted here and never have any real answers to issues such as gross income disparity. Yes Virginia, among other things, there will be some redistribution of wealth to accomplish our social goals.

The problem is that you are defending what another poster described as unicorn socialism. We are talking about real-world socialism.

- - - Updated - - -

Such as, in this case, the redistribution of $4 billion of wealth to the dear leader's daughter.

Source? You seem to expect us to keep track of all the people in the world. I do not think this has been adequately documented to accept it as the truth. Even if it were true that does not mean the "dear leader" had anything to do with it. Actually the disappearance of four billion dollars from an economy the size of Venezuela's would be very serious. I am asking you for the source of your information.

I suggest you read the OP rather than mindlessly chant "sources!" when you see unpleasant reality.

- - - Updated - - -

Funny how Forbes left this alleged billionaire off their list.

If anybody actually believes this woman has billions of dollars they will believe anything.

Not one shred of evidence comes from that Daily Mail story.

But fodder for the gullible sells.

Forbes doesn't list the people who are trying to hide their money.

 

[maxparrish]

Funny how Forbes left this alleged billionaire off their list.

If anybody actually believes this woman has billions of dollars they will believe anything.

Not one shred of evidence comes from that Daily Mail story.

But fodder for the gullible sells.

The faith of the socialist true believer is infinite. But it's not like the story of Ms. Chavez's corruption is unique.

Several months ago it was found that a former treasury minister and ex-bodyguard of late President Hugo Chávez has a Swiss bank account with HSBC holding billions of dollars. The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists issued a report detailing of its findings, based on 60,000 internal HSBC documents. Venezuela has the third highest source of funds, most of it (11.9 Billion) held by Alejandro Andrade, who was Chevez's treasury minister until 2010, as well as President of the Economic and Social Development bank. Andrade was a close associate and says he just invested in "a few show horses".

Chavismo has joined a pretty impressive club on the corruptions perceptions index. In 2014 the Nongovernmental organization Transparency International ranked Venezuela 161 out of 172, which gauges perceptions of corruption in countries’ public sectors, based on a survey of expert assessments. Venezuela’s ranking was the lowest among Latin American countries, falling just one spot below notoriously corrupt Haiti.

Heck Hillary only made 100,000 dollars from a 1,000 dollar commodities investment, at the time hailed as proof of her genius. But she has nothing on these Chavismo compadres. Isn't Socialism great or what?

 

[NobleSavage]

It blows me away that some people on this forum continually support 100% free market capitalism and others 100% socialism.

 

[arkirk]

You say things like that because you seem to have no notion of the operating concepts of the various types of socialism being practiced. Not all socialist concepts involve dictators. You are just parroting the same lines you have always parroted here and never have any real answers to issues such as gross income disparity. Yes Virginia, among other things, there will be some redistribution of wealth to accomplish our social goals.

The problem is that you are defending what another poster described as unicorn socialism. We are talking about real-world socialism.

- - - Updated - - -

Such as, in this case, the redistribution of $4 billion of wealth to the dear leader's daughter.

Source? You seem to expect us to keep track of all the people in the world. I do not think this has been adequately documented to accept it as the truth. Even if it were true that does not mean the "dear leader" had anything to do with it. Actually the disappearance of four billion dollars from an economy the size of Venezuela's would be very serious. I am asking you for the source of your information.

I suggest you read the OP rather than mindlessly chant "sources!" when you see unpleasant reality.

- - - Updated - - -

Funny how Forbes left this alleged billionaire off their list.

If anybody actually believes this woman has billions of dollars they will believe anything.

Not one shred of evidence comes from that Daily Mail story.

But fodder for the gullible sells.

Forbes doesn't list the people who are trying to hide their money.

One of these days you may decide that not all people are crooks. I think you already know it and are just putting on an act for us. Forbes probably didn't list her because she probably doesn't have any billions...except in a fictitious bank. It was the same bank that financed all of Saddam Hussein's WMD and sponsored the attack on U.S. warship in the Gulf of Tonkin.

 

[Valjean]

Socialist success stories:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK9SjSpRCcQ

More socialist success:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sug7bWxTuSo

 

[Nice Squirrel]

It blows me away that some people on this forum continually support 100% free market capitalism and others 100% socialism.

There is no middle ground apparently.