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Clergy who stop believing

Polite people typically just ask..."what did you mean by xyz Learner?"
Or they politely say..."I'm sorry, Learner, I didn't understand what you were trying to say". Or they politely just overlook the post rather than stooping to make some vulgar and petty ad hominem because they can't resist being petty and rude.

...to one of the most polite, friendly and civil members of this forum.


Alrighty, then, taking politieness tips from the guy who mocks “wimmins rights” in a thread about seeking to enslave our bodies for forced reproduction, which is clearly much more polite than saying, “wow, your sentence structure was like a maze,”

Dear Learner, what do you mean by this post?

Religion will still be around imo, which would perhaps be of a somewhat different nature as a majority mainstream than to that of Christianity that many are usually familiar with (Jesus and the Gospel narrative). Apparently a type that may be much more 'acceptably preferred & "tolerated",' meaning: This emerging religion must have the ability to be adaptable & adjustable, the facility to add new things like philosophies, even fashionable trends, as well as taking out old things like certain biblical narratives, which would then ... not have any conflict with that individuals' way of life - according to personal taste, so to speak

An "Open-Source Religion," if you will. ;)

A One-World-Religion some people term it as. In a normal everyday discussion, all sorts (believers and non-believers), would no doubt have talked and are talking about this, simply out of personal interest & curiosity - not with the view/or putting aside the view of someone who is thinking to make an argument, for a religious debate etc.. BUT as a serious thought or pondering... like having ideas that 'ALL religions becoming one-religion ' may be a good thing in their eyes. A "united religion" which also comes with the topic as a good conversation to come about, simply by wondering and asking "where does religion go from here?" in the future to come.
 
I understood your post quite well Learner.
Open source religion...religion Lite...lukewarm, post-modern, Laodicean religion.

Polite people typically just ask..."what did you mean by xyz Learner?"
Or they politely say..."I'm sorry, Learner, I didn't understand what you were trying to say". Or they politely just overlook the post rather than stooping to make some vulgar and petty ad hominem because they can't resist being petty and rude.

...to one of the most polite, friendly and civil members of this forum.

This got me looking back for any evidence of vulgarity or petty ad hominem. Didn't see it myself and didn't see anyone claiming they were offended. Did see someone say they weren't offended.

Polite people (IMO) don't try to stir up shit when others are having a civil conversation.

Having said that, I'm with the folks who found Learner's post difficult to understand. Part of the difficulty here is due to the use of long sentences that demonstrably defy conventional English grammar structure. But it should be expected that in an informal conversation strict adherence to grammatical norms would be rare. On the other hand, not many posts take that to the extreme as the example that initiated this slight derail.

Learner offered the term "Open Source Religion" which might have any number of meanings, not just the one you chose (lukewarm / Laodicean). It could have referred to the amalgamation of religious thought by the public at large (which certainly plays a part), but I might point out that the public has never demonstrated an ability to remain in lockstep about religious matters. Invariably religion tends to cluster around authority figures (Popes, TV Evangelists, Cult Leaders, etc) and splinter off into polarized groups.

From my perspective as an observer there is far more evidence of polarization and extremism than any tendency to gravitate towards a centralized religion-lite. But I readily acknowledge that could easily be because of the squeaky wheel effect.
 
I understood your post quite well Learner.
Open source religion...religion Lite...lukewarm, post-modern, Laodicean religion.
I got some of what Learner said like of course religion will still be around, but certainly his last paragraph was befuddling for me...FWIW

Polite people typically just ask..."what did you mean by xyz Learner?"
Or they politely say..."I'm sorry, Learner, I didn't understand what you were trying to say". Or they politely just overlook the post rather than stooping to make some vulgar and petty ad hominem because they can't resist being petty and rude.
You lecturing on such is ironic IMPOV...

...to one of the most polite, friendly and civil members of this forum.
Yes, Learner is. He also will try to answer direct questions, which is another behavioral trait I respect. You on the other hand seem to like to toss out quips that can be taken differing ways. And you seem to not engage people who try, even several times, to get you to clarify your point. You are smart and learned, but still for some reason don't engage direct questions with forthrightness. I don't want to assume, but it seems an avoidance pattern for unknown reasons...at least as far as I can discern...
 
You lecturing on such is ironic IMPOV...

I'm not polite.
My user profile doesn't say "Christian".

...and yes, there are some posters I purposefully refuse to answer for reasons I have explained to those posters.
 
Some years ago DJ and I visited Aragon. I was told three out of ten priests were atheists, but kept priesting because, it was an easy job, they wanted to reassure their parishioners, they didn't know what else to do, and so on.

Eldarion Lathria
 
I understood your post quite well Learner.
Open source religion...religion Lite...lukewarm, post-modern, Laodicean religion.

Polite people typically just ask..."what did you mean by xyz Learner?"
Or they politely say..."I'm sorry, Learner, I didn't understand what you were trying to say". Or they politely just overlook the post rather than stooping to make some vulgar and petty ad hominem because they can't resist being petty and rude.

...to one of the most polite, friendly and civil members of this forum.

Cheers Lion and G'day, very kind of you. At least there were two of three who sort of understood the post :D. Open-source religion = luke warm.

I would leave it there but it seems this particualr discussion has gone several posts...

...So yes I agree with you, as you pointed out. There are better ways to ask for clarity. And posts that have the iintention to insult indirectly, underneath an apparently "real concern for gramatical errors" for example, which is away from the actual topic of discussion or debate, which imo could give the impression of someone who simply has some grudge over something previous, with me or Christians in general, what ever it is.

In addition it would also be fun in theirs eyes, giving out particular "witty" responses. They would have to be aware though, that in a 'public forum, 'some people out there will notice the underlying intention of the posts (intention in terms of public ridicule). May not be so appealing to their public image profile, IOW it's more likely that it's those type of intentions, by their own doing, is what makes us look like nice guys :D.
 
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So that’s your answer to “what does this post mean?”

Open-source religion = luke warm.

Is that the only part you thought was unexplained?


is what makes us look like nice guys .

Also, there’s no “us” there in this discussion. There wasn’t more than one nice guy named. Lion is mad at me because a long time ago I pushed him on what it means about his character to support a religious structure that hides and protects pedophiles. He chose to take this as me calling him a pedophile, and has spent the subsequent time throwing little tantrums at me, inclusing disrupting other people’s threads for it.

And learner you yourself have spent many pages avoiding direct discussion and that also gets in the way of being “a nice guy.” Better to admit we are all human and we all make decisions that disqualify us from being called “nice” from time to time. And then you can clarify what you were trying to say and have it back in discussion. My apologies fir using humor instead of direct language to say, “this did not make any sense.”


So I’ll repeat my question,

Dear Learner, what do you mean by this post?

Learner said:
Religion will still be around imo, which would perhaps be of a somewhat different nature as a majority mainstream than to that of Christianity that many are usually familiar with (Jesus and the Gospel narrative). Apparently a type that may be much more 'acceptably preferred & "tolerated",' meaning: This emerging religion must have the ability to be adaptable & adjustable, the facility to add new things like philosophies, even fashionable trends, as well as taking out old things like certain biblical narratives, which would then ... not have any conflict with that individuals' way of life - according to personal taste, so to speak

An "Open-Source Religion," if you will.

A One-World-Religion some people term it as. In a normal everyday discussion, all sorts (believers and non-believers), would no doubt have talked and are talking about this, simply out of personal interest & curiosity - not with the view/or putting aside the view of someone who is thinking to make an argument, for a religious debate etc.. BUT as a serious thought or pondering... like having ideas that 'ALL religions becoming one-religion ' may be a good thing in their eyes. A "united religion" which also comes with the topic as a good conversation to come about, simply by wondering and asking "where does religion go from here?" in the future to come.
 
Dear Rhea,

Simply put (the level I can muster). I was trying to illustrate my take on the matter of future religion. My view so far, is that Christianity as the main faith, in the form of institutions WILL more likely change by the pressures of the curent world environment. Its understandable! In short - If there was any form of religion fading away, I would say that Christinity in most institutions will adapt, e.g., the biblical narrative of heaven and hell, the biblical view of sinners and types of sins will be replaced by a blend of new "spritual" and philosophical narratives. I think you can get the gist in this post hopefully.
 
Games People Play...

You lecturing on such is ironic IMPOV...

I'm not polite.
My user profile doesn't say "Christian".
Well, at least you are being forthright on politeness... BTW, your profile also doesn't say you are a Snark Master...

...and yes, there are some posters I purposefully refuse to answer for reasons I have explained to those posters.
I'd ask if I had received one of those priority memo's, but then I guess if I did already you'd refuse to say so...though you did 'respond' to my post, but I also didn't ask any questions to be answered...

TTFN
 
Dear Rhea,

Simply put (the level I can muster). I was not arguing in anyway or disputing any post, as to whether or not religion was disapearing. I was trying to illustrate my take on the matter. My view is that, Christianity as the main faith, in the form of institutions WILL change by the pressures of the curent world environment. Its understandable! In short - If there was any form of religion fading away, I would say that Christinity in most institutions will adapt, e.g., the biblical narrative of heaven and hell, the biblical view of sinners and types of sins will be replaced by a blend of new "spritual" and philosophical narratives. I think you can get the gist in this post hopefully.

Thank you, that was much more clear. I asked for the clarity because I do not want to argue against something you did not say, and previously I was unable to determine the point to decide if I agreed with it or not.

In the context of Clergy stopping believing, would this not justify their change in belief? That Christianity itself cannot stand up to the reality of the world in which it exists?
 
In the context of Clergy stopping believing, would this not justify their change in belief? That Christianity itself cannot stand up to the reality of the world in which it exists?

Possible, depending on the individual, many having different reasons. I think from the perspective of people having already stopped believing, they would feel the justification was the correct move (using the underlined above for arguments sake) - but 'after or during' their descision to change belief, and not necessarily because of it (using underlined above as the scenario). I say this only in terms of whilst people are still believers, who read and believes the texts describing the possible future for Christianity. The believer who believes the description in the text - he or she would of course take this to be a Divine future prophesy.
 
A flip side.

In the 80s I was working at a Lockheed division. I knew a guy who was a microwave chip designer. At the time at the division they were at the top of the food chain. Company was paying for grad school.

He decided to give it up and go to a theology school.

When I asked him why he said it was all he could think about.
 
Off-topic(?) movie recommendation

How many have seen the 1999 film The Third Miracle with Ed Harris? I liked this film and recommend it. It is MUCH better than its low ratings suggest (6.5 Imdb, 67% Rotten Tomato, 55% Metacritic).

Ed Harris plays a Catholic priest who questions his faith; he has made enemies by debunking claimed miracles, has dropped out of the church and removed his clerical collar. Despite the title, it's not at all clear what the "Third Miracle" is (even Google doesn't appear to know) — I think it's Harris' character regaining his faith.

The thread topic reminded me of this movie, but I'm posting only because I liked the movie. Watch it and tell me if you liked it! I am an atheist and would detest religious propaganda, but this is a memorable adventure story that just happens to be set in a Roman Catholic context.
 
A clergyman losing his faith is also a theme in John Updike's last major novel, In the Beauty of the Lilies -- not a book I've read yet, but it was recommended in the preface to Caught in the Pulpit and the reviews I've located online point it up as a masterful piece of fiction.
 
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