PyramidHead
Contributor
We will never ever understand each other
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Clinton derail from Mueller thread
- Thread starter PyramidHead
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Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
What's not to understand? Every Democrat questions institutions of "entrenched" power. That is the sole fight that everyone who is not a Republican is fighting.
You keep relying on arguments from incredulity and a profound ignorance of the subjects you rail against with a disturbing amount of binary, monolithic thinking in a pretense to condescend rather than illuminate. Literally every single argument you have made I have effortlessly eviscerated by taking just a simple minute or two to deconstruct and/or provide real-world primary sources categorically disproving your tropes. Every single one.
Believe it or not, that's not a boast. That's an embarrassment, because you at least claim to be a liberal and judging from the fact that your arguments have in many ways been deeply intertwined with right-wing talking points and rat-fucking whisper campaigns, it's even more distressing.
Before Sanders' ego got weaponized, he and Clinton had nothing but praise for each other, with both camps repeatedly acknowledging that their platforms were nearly identical. I believe the percentage bandied about was "93% the same." The only differences, in fact, were in numbers--like a $15 min wage increase as opposed to a $12 increase and the like--and in regard to practicalism (Clinton) vs idealism (Sanders).
Sanders even admitted publicly that he had no "illusion" to think that without 70-80% of the entire American public in lock-step support of him after the election, he could not get anything he was proposing implemented.
Well, gee, no shit. If anyone had 80% of the entire American public--which would necessarily have to include a significant portion of republicans--standing rock solid behind any President after the election, we would all be in a near-perfect utopia, but that's magical fucking ponies.
And it was precisely because of that regurgitated Nadler/Perot/you name it gambit that 95% of Democrats told Sanders to fuck off already. He was heard, soundly judged and the juries came back over and over and over again, no thanks; certainly by, again, March when it was mathematically impossible for him to win.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone making whatever argument they think will get them the job, but he made his, they weren't practical and the majority said, "no thank, we don't think you are the best person for the job." Again and again and again and again. He refused to leave and for no legitimate reason other than to double-down on this fantasy concoction that he was somehow "necessary" for the "conversation" when in fact all he did was escalate the civil war and insert all previous still standing arguments here.
It was unnecessary, a complete waste of everyone's time and resources, but more importantly pulled extensive and prolonged focus off of the actual threat that was left unfettered at a crucial early stage and for a good eight months of rallies and attacks and fanning overt and, more devastatingly, dormant white racism and hatred and the like and it unquestionably cost us the WH.
Instead of putting out those flames every time he tried to fan them, Clinton had to keep reburrying an already dead man walking and each time it cost us more and more division and the Trump camp/GOP/Russian bot factory had a fucking field day with it. Sanders' bots were doing their job for them! Only it cut far deeper because this was a house divided that nevertheless still stood in the final analysis (the popular vote), but cost us the WH nonetheless.
Understand what I'm saying. There were many avenues--many events/circumstances/scenarios/facts--that all, in various configurations, can be argued to have cost us the WH. No Comey letter alone would have likely meant Hillary in the WH according to Nate Silver's highly accurate model. According to many idiots, the mere physical presence of Clinton in Wisconsin somehow would have magically translated into her being in the WH, though how the many millions of other voters in that state managed to nevertheless persevere without her presence always goes unexplained.
So when I argue it "unquestionably cost us the WH" it is with the understanding that there were also other ways that, had they not been in play would have likewise overcome the miniscule sliver of a percentage that caused the EC trigger. That's how tiny that sliver was and how easily a multitude of different scenarios could have prevented it, number one on the wayback machine list being Sanders NOT being an ego-driven zombie schnorrer refusing to leave the party after he and his gang shat all over the place and drank all the liquor.
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PyramidHead
Contributor
Oh my word the Gish Gallop levels are just too much for me. Fine, you win, I surrender to your superior intellect. Are we done?
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
Disingenuous coward. We're "done" when you concede your arguments failed and that you were wrong in your assessments and baseless assertions/accusations, like an adult.
Otherwise you're just going to keep repeating the same ignorant nonsense and the problem you pretend to rail against never gets solved. You don't get to pretend that you're the wounded party after spewing easily deconstructed sophistry out your ass.
PyramidHead
Contributor
If you like. I just know what's worth my effort (provoking you to insult me personally, thus conceding the exchange in my favor) and what's not (going line by line through your Boy Scout's Guide to Being a Politics Knowledge Haver)
Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
I don't. In the slightest.
And the cycle repeats.
ETA: And just so you're under no delusions in taking your ball and going home, a gish gallop is when a debater tries to overwhelm the other side with a wall of arguments in the hopes that they cannot refute/rebutt them all in the time allotted. It's the forensic version of a TKO that hinges entirely on time constraints, not superior argumentation.
Here, of course, there are no such imposed time limits. Hence my pointing out the fact that you are being a disingenuous coward.
Funkytrip
Junior Member
It's what happens when someone is enabled by his environment, the system. He is enabled by his supporters, by the GOP politicians and by the system.
Compare it with a little obnoxious child who can do whatever he wants to do and his parents will always defend him.
Imagine that kid looking at you from between the legs of his protective father, knowing he is a little dipsh*t and you can do nothing about it as long as that huge guy stands in front of him.
The moment his enablers let Trump go is the moment he will fall down extremely hard since it will be a cataclysm since nobody will want to stand in front of him when the sh*tstorm rolls towards him.
Yes. I foresee him crashing hard after he leaves the presidency. But I also am not yet confident he won't win a second term.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Cleary Trump must be considered the favorite to win reelection. He has a dedicated and committed base that will vote. The economy is going great. There remains great division in the democratic party between the moderates and left. The dems can only win with a significant majority of the votes. I have hope that someone of the younger democrats can pull off an upset. But it will be very very tight.
PyramidHead
Contributor
I don't think Trump's original base has grown that much, and a lot of people who supported him as a "what the hell, let's mix things up" candidate in 2016 have since regretted their vote. I think it will probably be an easy win for whatever Dem is nominated.
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Actually last I heard those who identify as Republican has dropped to 26%.
Jimmy Higgins
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And George W Bush, despite having approval ratings varying between 47 and 53% approval in between January and November 2004, and peaking only to 51% between October and November '04... won the election.
Granted, Trump is fishing down near 43 to 45%, but we saw how he somehow managed the electoral college victory in '16. Short of closing the Government or bombing something, Trump's numbers are almost frighteningly static. Even closing the Government only budged his numbers down 3 pts. Despite being the worst guy for the job ever, he is only 5 or 6 points behind W or Obama. And imagine that! How fucked up is America?!
W's occupation of Iraq is completely falling apart... Obama... economy is on a path towards recovery. Both polling around the same during the year of the election.