Jarhyn
Wizard
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
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- Androgyne; they/them
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- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
STAFF COMMENT: This thread was split from “Problem of Evil” which was split from “Atheism unappealing”
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I even had a chance to turn the things off, or make them harmless.
I didn't do that.
Granted just because Ford was guilty for deaths, I don't find guilt as a zero sum game personally, even so: other folks can ALSO be guilty in these deaths. If someone was drunk driving their pinto, they are guilty in their own death for their reckless driving even as Ford is guilty for the extent of the disaster due to the fuel tank placement.
Me having made a world makes me guilty of having recklessly made a whole world with joy yes, but also a bunch of unnecessary awful things that make life harder. It doesn't make me culpable directly for all the decisions everyone in that creation makes after it starts. It makes me culpable exactly for the things I actually decided, when I decided them.
every person gored by a night troll? Sorry, while I'm responsible for the nature of night trolls, I am not responsible for that night troll making that decision to abduct your children and mutate them into night trolls, the night troll made that decision.
as much as the woman who chooses to have an orgasm is not choosing to have a baby, me choosing to have night trolls in the world is not me choosing your baby specifically to be abducted and made into a night troll. You can't get me to remove night trolls from the world and I can't anyway now that it's started running. That kind of change would utterly break the universe unless you wanted me to manually genocide each and every night troll in the world, and then, well, you're asking me to commit genocide.
When I make the decision to make night trolls exist, it can even be recognized that the night trolls might very well never get a strong foothold in the world and never abduct any babies at all.
Would you really want me to kill the night trolls before they ever do anything evil at all?
I'm not even reasonably able to stop it, on account of how and where and when that is happening, and I can't always turn back the clock, especially in adventure mode. At best I can chase down the night troll and kill him after the fact most times (or more likely, accidentally trip upon a night troll lair and get my avatar left laying face down in a pile of blood and body parts).
Whole armies March on whole other armies.
And yet, I do love them, every single giant cave spider, fly-person, night troll, and dwarf.
If God appeared right now before you and put himself at your mercy, how would you react?
I don't think the problem of evil proves a God (that probably does not exist) cannot or does not love so much as it proves that any such god, which probably does not exist, cannot possibly be perfectly good. Though he can both exist and be NOT perfectly good.
He just probably doesn't exist.
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And let's go a little further here... I made a world not with tectonic plates but with vampires, demons, bogeymen, "megabeasts", etc...Your putative god made everything, including a planet with tectonic plates the movements of which cause earthquakes and tsunamis. If he exists, he is the responsible for the deaths they cause.As I have already answered, although not to your liking, or our forum friends who are giving you their little support, maintaining the delusion thats seems to be merely hanging on a wee tiny thread i.e." I won't answer, I can't answer etc.".Your post mentioning the bigger picture does not explain my original query. One more time, from the beginning: I quoted you as asserting "God loves us", and you wrote you had no doubt about it. I replied with a picture showing a few of the more than a quarter million people that were killed by a tsunami in 2005 and asked how you reconcile such massive cruelty with your assertion.
I can tell you,even as a theist, and you may agree... nature killed those unfornates not God nor the devil.
The alleged absence of your alleged god does not relieve him from responsibility for the deaths for the same reason the Ford car company was held responsible for the fiery deaths of people driving the Ford Pinto. The placement of the car's petrol tank turned out to be a serious design fault. Ford could not argue that the company was not responsible for the deaths because it was not at the scene of the accidents when they happened. The court found it guilty of the deaths, and rightly so.Yes I see the your logic..similar to Atrib's. Gods absence implies God kills indescriminately...The way I see it is that if there is a God, this event is evidence of him not loving us. His alleged absence is no excuse.
Your god, if he exists, does not love us. Disasters like the 2005 tsunami are proof of that.
I even had a chance to turn the things off, or make them harmless.
I didn't do that.
Granted just because Ford was guilty for deaths, I don't find guilt as a zero sum game personally, even so: other folks can ALSO be guilty in these deaths. If someone was drunk driving their pinto, they are guilty in their own death for their reckless driving even as Ford is guilty for the extent of the disaster due to the fuel tank placement.
Me having made a world makes me guilty of having recklessly made a whole world with joy yes, but also a bunch of unnecessary awful things that make life harder. It doesn't make me culpable directly for all the decisions everyone in that creation makes after it starts. It makes me culpable exactly for the things I actually decided, when I decided them.
every person gored by a night troll? Sorry, while I'm responsible for the nature of night trolls, I am not responsible for that night troll making that decision to abduct your children and mutate them into night trolls, the night troll made that decision.
as much as the woman who chooses to have an orgasm is not choosing to have a baby, me choosing to have night trolls in the world is not me choosing your baby specifically to be abducted and made into a night troll. You can't get me to remove night trolls from the world and I can't anyway now that it's started running. That kind of change would utterly break the universe unless you wanted me to manually genocide each and every night troll in the world, and then, well, you're asking me to commit genocide.
When I make the decision to make night trolls exist, it can even be recognized that the night trolls might very well never get a strong foothold in the world and never abduct any babies at all.
Would you really want me to kill the night trolls before they ever do anything evil at all?
I'm not even reasonably able to stop it, on account of how and where and when that is happening, and I can't always turn back the clock, especially in adventure mode. At best I can chase down the night troll and kill him after the fact most times (or more likely, accidentally trip upon a night troll lair and get my avatar left laying face down in a pile of blood and body parts).
Whole armies March on whole other armies.
And yet, I do love them, every single giant cave spider, fly-person, night troll, and dwarf.
If God appeared right now before you and put himself at your mercy, how would you react?
I don't think the problem of evil proves a God (that probably does not exist) cannot or does not love so much as it proves that any such god, which probably does not exist, cannot possibly be perfectly good. Though he can both exist and be NOT perfectly good.
He just probably doesn't exist.
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