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Creation "science" and a Bible-based morality

I don't think we could know because I think the point is to be indistinguishable from reality (to skeptics) but it seems it is possible we are in a simulation.
You add "(to skeptics)" in parentheses. So I wonder, how is it different for believers than for skeptics?
I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force/God partly based on my experiences. If things can seem to involve "coincidence, delusion, or hallucinations" then skeptics would think a naturalistic explanation is a better one.
Isn't it simply that they want to believe, regardless how irrational it is to believe merely because "it's possible"?
Personally I think it is more than just possible we're in a simulation, it is likely - based on Elon Musk's reasoning:
"...the games will become indistinguishable from reality. ...there would probably be billions of such computers and set-top boxes. ...it would seem to follow that the odds that we're in base reality (NOT a simulation) is one in billions"
For me it makes sense that an non-obvious force and a simulation exists rather than it being a case of me wanting to believe....
The way you talk about how the appearances fool the skeptics, it sounds like there's something that disadvantages skeptics. If it's that they don't follow an irrational impulse to believe, on the lame basis that "it is possible", then that's their advantage.
Perhaps whether someone is correct in their belief that it is a simulation or not doesn't really have major consequences.... though a belief in an intelligent force can be comforting.... but the reason I believe isn't due to me wanting to comfort myself....
 
Some people loose or never had the ability to distinguish reality from phantasy and imagination.

With social media it is already difficult to spot 'unreality'. If you are not grounded in reality being immersed in games with perhaps the addition of drugs I imagine one can loose any sense of what is real and what is not. Like relgion one becomes totally immersed and it is imposable to see your condition.

Ghosts are the power of suggestion. The mind creates them.
 
Some people loose or never had the ability to distinguish reality from phantasy and imagination.

With social media it is already difficult to spot 'unreality'. If you are not grounded in reality being immersed in games with perhaps the addition of drugs I imagine one can loose any sense of what is real and what is not. Like relgion one becomes totally immersed and it is imposable to see your condition.

Ghosts are the power of suggestion. The mind creates them.
And why is that? The answer is brain anatomy.

This raises the question of how a simulation makes any sense. A simulation assumes some kind of equality among human brains, all the brains are fundamentally the same in their ability to perceive the universe.

But we know this is not the case. This obvious fact does not square with a simulation belief. Of course, just like a belief in a god I can say that is the purpose of the simulation or the simulator or whatever. It just goes on and on and on, the fantasy never ends. And of course this is obviously all part of the simulation, all very mysterious and full of woo, very matrix like once you get past the first episode, layer upon layer upon layer of simulation.

Why would a simulation purposely impact the ability of one brain to be perceptive. It would be as if when I build my computer I make one of the sims less capable of processing information than the next sim. Does that make any sense? Does it make any sense to give one pinball in the cue a special ability to do better at the game, bounce of the rails and paddles differently? Of course it doesn't, unless I'm attracted to the power of woo, fantasy, and willing to suspend reality or even lack the ability to perceive reality.
 
TG

In tje 60s-70s there was a book The Bicameral Mind.

As I remember right the author posed the idea that seeing images superimposed on reality and talking to them was a natural process, as is hearing a voice taking to you. A way of working through problem and communcating. God woud then ne a talking point, a point of reference.

The claim was made that this was bred out with the rise of western logic where all things have to be reduced to logic or it is irrational. Today hearing voices can be deemed a mental illness.

I do not understand what you mean by simulation and the brain.
 
TG

In tje 60s-70s there was a book The Bicameral Mind.

As I remember right the author posed the idea that seeing images superimposed on reality and talking to them was a natural process, as is hearing a voice taking to you. A way of working through problem and communcating. God woud then ne a talking point, a point of reference.

The claim was made that this was bred out with the rise of western logic where all things have to be reduced to logic or it is irrational. Today hearing voices can be deemed a mental illness.

I do not understand what you mean by simulation and the brain.

If you were constructing a machine, why would you make every "identical" part purposely different? If I am writing a program and use certain commands such as back in the day with mainframes and PL1, what would be the purpose of using IF/THEN statements in which no two identical statements do the same thing?

The only conclusion that would make any sense is that the simulator is itself a simulation. Where does that get us?
 
....The Sims' smoking gun for computer code, to the extent there is one, would be that the world they can sense does everything in discrete steps. So their laws of physics are all implementable on a computer.
I thought that the movements of the characters would be interpolated to about 60 frames per second... they don't have the ability to capture a video of that and slow it down.... I don't think they'd be able to determine what the framerate is.
The human eye can't distinguish 25 frames per second from continuous; but we can reason about what we see and draw inferences beyond the unaided eye. For instance, you see the wagon wheel spokes rotating slowly in the wrong direction and you deduce you're seeing a series of frames and not continuity. The Sims could do likewise -- we're presuming highly intelligent Sims here.

Similarly, the smoking gun for our world not being a simulation, to the extent there is one, is that our best guesses at laws of physics are a bunch of differential equations that don't work right unless time and space are continuous. To get that right on a computer would take an infinite amount of calculation....
If it is truly completely continuous then it seems the "Achilles and the tortoise" paradox could apply....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes#Achilles_and_the_tortoise
I think that's not so much a real paradox as it is an ancient Greek mortal fear of infinities. Infinite series add up to finite sums all the time.

1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + ... = 2

Discrete time and space solves this paradox. I thought the Planck time and length means that time and space are discrete (quantized?).
They don't mean that -- that's just the scale where quantum gravity effects are expected to become dominant, and we don't have a working theory of quantum gravity yet. So it's not that current theory says there are no distances and times smaller than the Planck scale; rather, our theory says we don't know what happens below that scale so we need better theories.

There are a couple of big obstacles to discrete spacetime hypotheses. One is the dilemma of how the individual discrete spacetime points are laid out. Jokodo was talking about this issue here a few years ago. If they're laid out in a regular pattern like a crystal then we'd expect to see different physics in directions lined up with the crystal's axes from what we see in directions that cut across the axes; but as far as we can tell physics is completely uniform in all directions. Contrariwise, if the discrete spacetime points are laid out randomly like atoms in glass, then we'd expect energy to leak out of propagating waves and turn into heat, the way sound waves die out so much faster in glass than in crystals; but as far as we can tell there is no energy leakage, and we can see light that's traveled half way across the universe. (Of course maybe there's some aperiodic quasicrystal pattern that resolves the dilemma; if so we haven't found it.)

The other obstacle is Relativity. Duration and distance aren't absolute -- they're relative to the motion of the observer. So if two particles are the Planck length apart from my point of view, to somebody who's moving at 9/10 the speed of light the same two particles are less than half a Planck length apart. But that's impossible if no distances are shorter than the Planck length. So it pretty much means if space and time are discrete then Relativity must be wrong; but as far as we can tell by looking, Relativity is right.

I think the simulation I think I'm in would just give the impression of things like the Sun being made up of 1057 atoms without having to have them all being continually explicitly simulated.... so it shows what we expect to see without necessarily being calculated in the way it gives the impression of... e.g. it could seem that there was a Big Bang with infinite density without having to simulate that in a simplistic brute force way. I think AI techniques like machine learning physics simulations could be used.
That's a nifty speculation. But how would a simulator know when it can get away with bulk estimates and when it needs to simulate subatomic particle by particle? It would need to be able to tell if anybody is watching closely. Glad I'm not the programmer who has to code that one... :)
 
.....
I think the simulation I think I'm in would just give the impression of things like the Sun being made up of 1057 atoms without having to have them all being continually explicitly simulated.... so it shows what we expect to see without necessarily being calculated in the way it gives the impression of... e.g. it could seem that there was a Big Bang with infinite density without having to simulate that in a simplistic brute force way. I think AI techniques like machine learning physics simulations could be used.
That's a nifty speculation. But how would a simulator know when it can get away with bulk estimates and when it needs to simulate subatomic particle by particle? It would need to be able to tell if anybody is watching closely. Glad I'm not the programmer who has to code that one...
It is basically about "level of detail" - including being based on distance and field of view (like a telescope)

Also consider the following AI that currently exists: (DALL-E)
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...-generating-images-from-text&highlight=dall-e
It generates highly creative photorealistic scenes - or cartoon style...
I think it is incredible and it wasn't all coded by a programmer.

Elon Musk believes that a video game that is indistinguishable from reality could run on a computer or set-top box (in the far future). i.e. it would take shortcuts... Elon helped create OpenAI which that mentioned AI (DALL-E) is a part of...
 
This raises the question of how a simulation makes any sense. A simulation assumes some kind of equality among human brains, all the brains are fundamentally the same in their ability to perceive the universe.
In a simulation there could be NPC philosophical zombies - and they wouldn't have the sensation of qualia/pain/etc. Brains that perceive the world in different ways can be simulated - and the simulation would involve future technology - it isn't necessarily about current simulations.
 
TG

In tje 60s-70s there was a book The Bicameral Mind.

As I remember right the author posed the idea that seeing images superimposed on reality and talking to them was a natural process, as is hearing a voice taking to you. A way of working through problem and communcating. God woud then ne a talking point, a point of reference.

The claim was made that this was bred out with the rise of western logic where all things have to be reduced to logic or it is irrational. Today hearing voices can be deemed a mental illness.

I do not understand what you mean by simulation and the brain.

If you were constructing a machine, why would you make every "identical" part purposely different? If I am writing a program and use certain commands such as back in the day with mainframes and PL1, what would be the purpose of using IF/THEN statements in which no two identical statements do the same thing?

The only conclusion that would make any sense is that the simulator is itself a simulation. Where does that get us?

Wow..PL1 isa blast form the past, an oldie but a goodie.
 
This raises the question of how a simulation makes any sense. A simulation assumes some kind of equality among human brains, all the brains are fundamentally the same in their ability to perceive the universe.
In a simulation there could be NPC philosophical zombies - and they wouldn't have the sensation of qualia/pain/etc. Brains that perceive the world in different ways can be simulated - and the simulation would involve future technology - it isn't necessarily about current simulations.
The key to demonstrating simulation is quantum mechanics. Yet, it seems the only posts you talk about simulations just use the words 'could', 'might', 'Elon Musk'... pretending hypothetical statements are actually evidence.
 
This raises the question of how a simulation makes any sense. A simulation assumes some kind of equality among human brains, all the brains are fundamentally the same in their ability to perceive the universe.
In a simulation there could be NPC philosophical zombies - and they wouldn't have the sensation of qualia/pain/etc. Brains that perceive the world in different ways can be simulated - and the simulation would involve future technology - it isn't necessarily about current simulations.
The key to demonstrating simulation is quantum mechanics. Yet, it seems the only posts you talk about simulations just use the words 'could', 'might', 'Elon Musk'... pretending hypothetical statements are actually evidence.
I think quantum mechanics is difficult for a simulation to explain because it makes the simulation a lot more CPU intensive. But I think it is there in order to simulate the outside world more closely... and it is interesting to have a non-deterministic simulation - allowing a non-obvious intelligent force to nudge things around....
 
The key to demonstrating simulation is quantum mechanics. Yet, it seems the only posts you talk about simulations just use the words 'could', 'might', 'Elon Musk'... pretending hypothetical statements are actually evidence.
I think quantum mechanics is difficult for a simulation to explain because it makes the simulation a lot more CPU intensive. But I think it is there in order to simulate the outside world more closely... and it is interesting to have a non-deterministic simulation - allowing a non-obvious intelligent force to nudge things around....

QM would BE the simulation!
 
You are hopeless.
I'm looking into simulating quantum computers... I'll ask my fellow simulation argument fans what they think....



Interesting, you must be very knowledgeable in QM. Such s simulation for me would be well above my pay grade.

Dows a Turing Machine model apply an algorithmic process?
 
I'm looking into simulating quantum computers... I'll ask my fellow simulation argument fans what they think....

Phillosophically (my simplistic and limited view of the concept,) I gather that any shape and form should be able to be produced in the QM realm, the facility, in which would also mean, emulations (or copies?) of anything physical/virtual, having existing prior, or anything you can think of (as you see in the designer sense... sims etc.,).

(EDIT: I think I was stating an obvious to the concept , apologies)



I think the simulation would only simulate QM phenomena when necessary to minimize CPU usage.... I guess QM (or similar) in the outside world is required to simulate quantum computers....

Thats a thought to the concept. There could always be endless energy and power, in terms of eternal, but the very processing i.e. the gargantuan multi-task processes of the CPU to keep maintaining and holding shapes, forms and logic rules, so to speak, could have its processing stresses, if due to being a shape and form itself, in which then I suppose, there may have to be more than one. Only some parts of the universe become entropic-like, due to CPU maintance or breakdown, or a new CPU and new universe all together replacing the old one (not to mean in similar reference to the bible).

(I used to be intrigued with the matrix, hollogram universe theory)
 
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You are hopeless.
I'm looking into simulating quantum computers... I'll ask my fellow simulation argument fans what they think....
What are you talking about? The quantum foam, elementary particles coming in and out of existence, that'd be the building blocks of the simulation... not trying to simulate a Quantum Computer.

You mean to tell me, you've been pondering us as a simulation for a while and it has never occurred to you to look at what the building blocks of such a simulation would be or behave like?

Is your entire premise of simulation a quote by Musk and vague curiosity?
 
I'm looking into simulating quantum computers... I'll ask my fellow simulation argument fans what they think....
What are you talking about? The quantum foam, elementary particles coming in and out of existence, that'd be the building blocks of the simulation... not trying to simulate a Quantum Computer.

You mean to tell me, you've been pondering us as a simulation for a while and it has never occurred to you to look at what the building blocks of such a simulation would be or behave like?
I think the simulation could be "top down" - so it isn't constantly simulating all of the elementary particles (like the 1057 atoms in our Sun). But I think a quantum computer can't be approximated. In "bottom up" all of the particles are always explicitly simulated.
Is your entire premise of simulation a quote by Musk and vague curiosity?
Also many experiences that I think could involve an intelligent force. It is common in video games for an outside player to intervene...
 
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