braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
Does anyone else have any interest in this? I consider it a pretty drastic over reach by the DEA.
Kratom is a plant, a member of the coffee family, actually. It has a wide variety of effects, and it has not been very much studied by the FDA, like most supplements. It can either act as a stimulant or a painkiller depending on dosage. The substance, which derives from the leaves of a tree called Mitragyna speciosa that grows in southeast Asia, has been used for centuries for these dual purposes, and to treat other conditions like opiate addiction.
HERE is the DEA's explanation for why they are banning this substance, supposedly for a temporary amount of time, allowing the DEA to ascertain if the ban should continue or be lifted. This worked quite well for marijuana, as everyone knows, since it's notoriously difficult to research precisely because it's so difficult to obtain.
The DEA notes in their statement:
Yet all current known statistics on kratom usage and/or abuse are pretty much summarized by the following (via a Newsweek article HERE) and also stated in the DEA's own statement.
There’s anecdotal evidence that kratom can help wean people off addiction to stronger opiates like heroin, according to a 2015 literature review in the International Journal of Legal Medicine. This review also noted that “kratom is considered minimally toxic,” and that there’s no good evidence of kratom alone leading to death.
So you may ask, Braces, other than your general dislike for the War on Drugs, why do you care?
Because I use it.
I suffer from degenerative discs in my neck in several places. This includes bulging and slipped discs, arthritis, and unfortunately, a bone spur which pushes down on a nerve in my neck and which branches down my left shoulder and arm. I have neuropathy as well as general moderate to severe pain because if this. I first noticed it as a numbness going down my shoulder and causing unintentional movement of my left pectoral muscle. I also started suffering from headaches, which began to get worse and more frequent. After a series of X-rays and an MRI the culprit was found.
Firstly steroid type injections into the area were tried. 8 of them in fact, which only provided very short term relief in conjunction with being on Extended Release tramadol and regular fast acting tramadol for breakthrough pain. Then, Radio Frequency ablation has been performed as well a couple of times. That seemed to make a dent combined with my prescription meds. I've tried other medications for pain, and Tramadol seems the most effective. This is unfortunate because I'm not a big fan of Tramadol, and of course it is habit forming. I have good days and bad days, and on those bad days the pain is something else.
One Friday morning I was taking the car to work (I share a car with my girlfriend, so I usually take the bus) and I put my backpack on top of the car, containing along with my personal stuff, my meds. I forgot it was on the roof, and drove off. It was a couple of hours after I arrived at work that I realized what had happened. Long story short, I had to call and make a police report and jump through several hoops, but I didn't make it in time for my doctor to replace my meds. I had a whole weekend without them. I knew it would be painful, and I accepted that. What I didn't anticipate was that my brain was quite used to the Tramadol I had been taking for two years, and decided it didn't like life without it. I went into withdrawal. Wow. Now I understand why "junkies" will do what they do to get their fix. I was fucking miserable. I felt like I had the flu, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't concentrate, I was depressed and felt just fucking awful. Friday bled into Saturday, then Sunday.
Then, a friend invited me to a Kratom bar not too far from where I live. Now, I'm skeptical. I actually only went to socialize with some people I knew, and I had a kratom tea. I also was having a pretty bad day pain-wise, in fact I almost didn't go between that and the feeling withdrawal sick. More than anything I was just trying to get my mind off how awful I felt. I drank the fruit infused tea, which tasted a little funny, over a period of about 20 minutes. By the time I was done my pain was reduced quite significantly. More than it had been in over two years. I was stunned. I also felt good. Not, stoned, not drunk, just a nice light type of euphoria, like you've just had a pretty good day and are ready to relax for awhile. I really didn't expect this: I figured it was a trend like most supplements in hippie-type establishments. Before this I had never been in an 'Ethnobotanical Tea Bar" ever in my life. The euphoria type effects wore off after a few hours, but the pain relief and lack of withdrawal symptoms lasted all evening. Incredible.
So I researched it, I found some reliable suppliers and got lab results to make sure what I was getting was pure, because it is regulated just like any other supplement, which means it isn't. I joined some online support groups that dealt with kratom as a topic. There's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence running around for kratom of course, and I'm a part of it. I was able to cut down my narcotics by half. I take a teaspoon a couple times a day. I didn't tell my doctor I'm taking it, and it doesn't show up in the drug tests they are mandated to give you at pain clinics. I was cautious because I wanted to watch out for any reaction with other medications, of course. I've had a couple of physicals and various blood tests since I've been taking it and everything is normal. The second largest factor in deciding to take this was that I found it had a GREAT effect on my depression. I've had depression for years. I've tried a variety of anti-depressants, but they either didn't work or they had side effects I found intolerable. On kratom I still feel a full spectrum of emotions. I'm not a zombie, or overly giddy or silly, and my depression has lessened considerably.
There's a movement starting to fight this with the DEA, and honestly, I doubt we'll have much of an effect. It's really too bad. I've seen people literally cry because they've had more pain relief than they've had in years with this stuff, with very little in the way of side effects. This ban is going to hurt a lot of people, and help anyone very little. All so the DEA can request even more funding for their stupid drug war. I'm not against regulating it. Regulate it. Hell, regulate all supplements as you should anyway. But making it a schedule 1? That's just fucking stupid. The ban goes into effect at the end of this month. Even if I could find a supplier I wouldn't keep doing taking it - a typical amount I have on hand is 50 to 100 grams (a quart size zip lock baggie or so for reference) but the punishment for breaking the law will be equivalent to possession of the same amount in heroin. I have kids and I cannot risk that.
Sigh.
Kratom is a plant, a member of the coffee family, actually. It has a wide variety of effects, and it has not been very much studied by the FDA, like most supplements. It can either act as a stimulant or a painkiller depending on dosage. The substance, which derives from the leaves of a tree called Mitragyna speciosa that grows in southeast Asia, has been used for centuries for these dual purposes, and to treat other conditions like opiate addiction.
HERE is the DEA's explanation for why they are banning this substance, supposedly for a temporary amount of time, allowing the DEA to ascertain if the ban should continue or be lifted. This worked quite well for marijuana, as everyone knows, since it's notoriously difficult to research precisely because it's so difficult to obtain.
The DEA notes in their statement:
Yet all current known statistics on kratom usage and/or abuse are pretty much summarized by the following (via a Newsweek article HERE) and also stated in the DEA's own statement.
There’s anecdotal evidence that kratom can help wean people off addiction to stronger opiates like heroin, according to a 2015 literature review in the International Journal of Legal Medicine. This review also noted that “kratom is considered minimally toxic,” and that there’s no good evidence of kratom alone leading to death.
So you may ask, Braces, other than your general dislike for the War on Drugs, why do you care?
Because I use it.
I suffer from degenerative discs in my neck in several places. This includes bulging and slipped discs, arthritis, and unfortunately, a bone spur which pushes down on a nerve in my neck and which branches down my left shoulder and arm. I have neuropathy as well as general moderate to severe pain because if this. I first noticed it as a numbness going down my shoulder and causing unintentional movement of my left pectoral muscle. I also started suffering from headaches, which began to get worse and more frequent. After a series of X-rays and an MRI the culprit was found.
Firstly steroid type injections into the area were tried. 8 of them in fact, which only provided very short term relief in conjunction with being on Extended Release tramadol and regular fast acting tramadol for breakthrough pain. Then, Radio Frequency ablation has been performed as well a couple of times. That seemed to make a dent combined with my prescription meds. I've tried other medications for pain, and Tramadol seems the most effective. This is unfortunate because I'm not a big fan of Tramadol, and of course it is habit forming. I have good days and bad days, and on those bad days the pain is something else.
One Friday morning I was taking the car to work (I share a car with my girlfriend, so I usually take the bus) and I put my backpack on top of the car, containing along with my personal stuff, my meds. I forgot it was on the roof, and drove off. It was a couple of hours after I arrived at work that I realized what had happened. Long story short, I had to call and make a police report and jump through several hoops, but I didn't make it in time for my doctor to replace my meds. I had a whole weekend without them. I knew it would be painful, and I accepted that. What I didn't anticipate was that my brain was quite used to the Tramadol I had been taking for two years, and decided it didn't like life without it. I went into withdrawal. Wow. Now I understand why "junkies" will do what they do to get their fix. I was fucking miserable. I felt like I had the flu, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't concentrate, I was depressed and felt just fucking awful. Friday bled into Saturday, then Sunday.
Then, a friend invited me to a Kratom bar not too far from where I live. Now, I'm skeptical. I actually only went to socialize with some people I knew, and I had a kratom tea. I also was having a pretty bad day pain-wise, in fact I almost didn't go between that and the feeling withdrawal sick. More than anything I was just trying to get my mind off how awful I felt. I drank the fruit infused tea, which tasted a little funny, over a period of about 20 minutes. By the time I was done my pain was reduced quite significantly. More than it had been in over two years. I was stunned. I also felt good. Not, stoned, not drunk, just a nice light type of euphoria, like you've just had a pretty good day and are ready to relax for awhile. I really didn't expect this: I figured it was a trend like most supplements in hippie-type establishments. Before this I had never been in an 'Ethnobotanical Tea Bar" ever in my life. The euphoria type effects wore off after a few hours, but the pain relief and lack of withdrawal symptoms lasted all evening. Incredible.
So I researched it, I found some reliable suppliers and got lab results to make sure what I was getting was pure, because it is regulated just like any other supplement, which means it isn't. I joined some online support groups that dealt with kratom as a topic. There's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence running around for kratom of course, and I'm a part of it. I was able to cut down my narcotics by half. I take a teaspoon a couple times a day. I didn't tell my doctor I'm taking it, and it doesn't show up in the drug tests they are mandated to give you at pain clinics. I was cautious because I wanted to watch out for any reaction with other medications, of course. I've had a couple of physicals and various blood tests since I've been taking it and everything is normal. The second largest factor in deciding to take this was that I found it had a GREAT effect on my depression. I've had depression for years. I've tried a variety of anti-depressants, but they either didn't work or they had side effects I found intolerable. On kratom I still feel a full spectrum of emotions. I'm not a zombie, or overly giddy or silly, and my depression has lessened considerably.
There's a movement starting to fight this with the DEA, and honestly, I doubt we'll have much of an effect. It's really too bad. I've seen people literally cry because they've had more pain relief than they've had in years with this stuff, with very little in the way of side effects. This ban is going to hurt a lot of people, and help anyone very little. All so the DEA can request even more funding for their stupid drug war. I'm not against regulating it. Regulate it. Hell, regulate all supplements as you should anyway. But making it a schedule 1? That's just fucking stupid. The ban goes into effect at the end of this month. Even if I could find a supplier I wouldn't keep doing taking it - a typical amount I have on hand is 50 to 100 grams (a quart size zip lock baggie or so for reference) but the punishment for breaking the law will be equivalent to possession of the same amount in heroin. I have kids and I cannot risk that.
Sigh.
