Death of the Petrodollar?

[arkirk]

Perhaps, but the petrodollar has nothing to do with that. The dollar was once backed by gold. Now essentially, it is backed by petroleum because dollars are needed to buy the petroleum. If dollars are no longer needed, the petroleum will still get bought. The petrodollar has nothing to do with oil company profits or the desires and need for petroleum world-wide. That is a completely different issue.

The shift from weak density carbon to high density carbon has been a great boon to the world economically. Without it the world's population would be much smaller and still much poorer. The advantages for humanity have been immense, and there is no alternative any where near as economical or nearly as abundant as oil and gas. This condition isn't going to go away any time soon, and if it did, the alternative would be grinding poverty and back-breaking human manual labor.

The type of economy you are talking about creates unsustainable growth. You too just see only one way to escape "back breaking human manual labor." The petrodollar has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. Much of the food you eat is raised using petroleum based fertilizers. The crops are planted, irrigated and harvested by petroleum powered machinery. Your computer is probably running on petroleum power. The manufacture of your computer undoubtedly used lots of petroleum power. So did its delivery to you. The economy is completely powered by this behemoth. Our environment is heavily impacted by all this. We need to get away from petrochemical pollution of our atmosphere and waters and foods.

Now in the midst of all this, there are alternatives that are heartily scoffed at by the likes of you. Something is only economical to you if it costs less petrodollars, echoing the Koch Brothers with another of their tautologies. Petroleum power made the "value" those dollars represent. It is now in a new business...pushing its profits to ever higher levels whether or not billions will have to pay for it with misery or perhaps their lives. The "wealth" of the world is far greater in the aggregate, but there are two points you are missing. 1. That "wealth" is very temporal and unsustainable. 2. If it all were equitably distributed, we would all be dismally poor. These have always been the problem with empires of all kinds based on resources of all kinds.

 

[boneyard bill]

The type of economy you are talking about creates unsustainable growth. You too just see only one way to escape "back breaking human manual labor." The petrodollar has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. Much of the food you eat is raised using petroleum based fertilizers. The crops are planted, irrigated and harvested by petroleum powered machinery. Your computer is probably running on petroleum power. The manufacture of your computer undoubtedly used lots of petroleum power. So did its delivery to you. The economy is completely powered by this behemoth. Our environment is heavily impacted by all this. We need to get away from petrochemical pollution of our atmosphere and waters and foods.

Now in the midst of all this, there are alternatives that are heartily scoffed at by the likes of you. Something is only economical to you if it costs less petrodollars, echoing the Koch Brothers with another of their tautologies. Petroleum power made the "value" those dollars represent. It is now in a new business...pushing its profits to ever higher levels whether or not billions will have to pay for it with misery or perhaps their lives. The "wealth" of the world is far greater in the aggregate, but there are two points you are missing. 1. That "wealth" is very temporal and unsustainable. 2. If it all were equitably distributed, we would all be dismally poor. These have always been the problem with empires of all kinds based on resources of all kinds.

Which, as I said, has nothing to do with the petrodollar. As for redistributing the wealth of this world, yes, it probably would leave everyone poor although some would be a lot less poor. But the answer to that is for the poor people of this world to produce more. The modern, industrial economy is not at all unsustainable. Will it change the planet? Yes. If we don't do it will the planet change? Yes.

Is nature beautiful? Yes. Is nature cruel? Absolutely. Have humans sought to make the planet more habitable for humans? Yes, throughout our history. That isn't going to change.

 

[arkirk]

Which, as I said, has nothing to do with the petrodollar. As for redistributing the wealth of this world, yes, it probably would leave everyone poor although some would be a lot less poor. But the answer to that is for the poor people of this world to produce more. The modern, industrial economy is not at all unsustainable. Will it change the planet? Yes. If we don't do it will the planet change? Yes.

Is nature beautiful? Yes. Is nature cruel? Absolutely. Have humans sought to make the planet more habitable for humans? Yes, throughout our history. That isn't going to change.

I don't care about your evaluation of whether "nature" is cruel or not. A petro dollar is one that has been generated due to the petroleum industry. I attempted to point out to you that almost all of our economy is driven by the petrochemical industry. Your answer is simply a personal opinion of what you think I am saying I in no way am advocating returning to caves. You have completely skirted the issue of the environmental feedback from petroleum based industry. Consideration of the polluting aspects of our petroleum powered economy is crucial to understanding the problem. You show no understanding and also show no awareness of the environmental conditions that accompany economic growth of that type. It is at the end of its run and at the same time seems totally in the hands of people without any empathy for future generations. I welcome the death of the petro dollar. Of course we have to replace some portion of it with new technology.

Have humans sought to make the planet more habitable for humans? Throughout history with all our wars? With all our religious persecutions. With all our pollutions? No, humans have a dismal environmental history and it is coming back to haunt us. You are sorely mistaken.

 

[boneyard bill]

Akirk writes:

You have completely skirted the issue of the environmental feedback from petroleum based industry.

I haven't skirted the issue. I have denied that it has any relevance to the discussion. The fact that gold fillings for may teeth may actually carry some health damages has nothing to do with the use of gold as metal that backs the dollar. The same goes for petroleum. If we backed the dollar with weapon's grade uranium, it doesn't matter that that uranium is highly toxic and needs to be stored very carefully. It is the price, the relative scarcity, and other economic factors that affect its use as support for a currency.