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Decay and Decline at the Hands of Democrats

Starman

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Dennis Prager, radio show host, columnist:

“As one who loves America — not only because I am American, but even more so because I know (not believe, know) that the American experiment in forming a decent society has been the most successful in history — I write the following words in sadness: With few exceptions, every aspect of American life is in decline.”
Further Prager says: “Decay” is the word.

Prager lists:

“The Decline of the Family: Nearly half (48 percent) of American children are born to a mother who is not married. Forty-three percent of American children live without a father in the home. About 50 percent of Americans over 18 are married, compared to 72 percent in 1960. Americans are having so few children that the fertility rate fell to a record low 62.9 births per 1,000 women in 2013. And in an increasing number of states, there are now more deaths than births.

The Decline of Education: Compared to nearly all of American history, the average American school teaches much less about important subjects such as American history, English grammar, literature, music and art. Instead, schools are teaching much more about “social justice,” environmentalism and sex.
Most universities have become secular seminaries for the dissemination of Leftism. Moreover, aside from indoctrination, students usually learn little. One can earn a BA in English at UCLA, for example, without having read a single Shakespeare play.
To the extent that American history is taught, beginning in high school and often earlier, American history is presented as the history of an immoral nation characterized by slavery, racism, colonialism, imperialism, economic exploitation, and militarism — not of a country that, more than any other, has been the beacon of freedom to mankind, and the country that has spent more treasure and spilled more blood to liberate other peoples than any other nation.

The End of Male and Female: Whatever one’s position on same-sex marriage, one must acknowledge that at the core of the argument for this redefinition of marriage is that gender doesn’t matter. Marriage is marriage, and gender means nothing, the argument goes. So, too, whether children are raised by mother and father or two mothers or two fathers doesn’t matter. A father has nothing unique to offer a child that a mother can’t provide and vice versa.

The End of Right and Wrong: At least two generations of American young people have been taught that moral categories are nothing more than personal (or societal) preferences. Since the Nazis thought killing Jews was right, there is no way to know for sure whether it was wrong; it’s the Nazis’ opinion against that of the Jews and anyone else who objects.

The End of Religion: There are no moral truths because there is no longer a religious basis for morality. Instead of being guided by a code higher than themselves, Americans are taught to rely on their feelings to determine how to behave. Instead of being given moral guidance, children are asked, “How do you feel about it?”

The End of Beauty: Just as morality is subjective; so are beauty and excellence. There is no good or bad art or literature. Beethoven, Shakespeare, Michelangelo; all the great artist of all time are no better than street art and rappers.”
 
Just to focus on one issue here---

The End of Male and Female: Whatever one’s position on same-sex marriage, one must acknowledge that at the core of the argument for this redefinition of marriage is that gender doesn’t matter. Marriage is marriage, and gender means nothing, the argument goes. So, too, whether children are raised by mother and father or two mothers or two fathers doesn’t matter. A father has nothing unique to offer a child that a mother can’t provide and vice versa.

Can you actually quote anybody making those statements, or are you just attributing those statements to them when they have said no such thing?

Who says "gender means nothing" for instance? Gender of course means something. What people like me argue is that your gender does not have to define who you are, who it is okay for you to be attracted to, and who it is okay for you to marry. Gender is not "nothing" but it is irrelevant to answering those questions. A person can be fit, healthy, a good parent, a solid role model, and still be attracted to someone of their same gender. The one does not preclude the other.

Also, when 2 gay people want to get married to each other, that does nothing to stop 2 straight people from wanting to marry each other either. Gays are not ending marriage, they are expanding it. You still have the right to want to marry whoever you want Starman, even if gays are allowed to want to marry each other. A heterosexual married couple can still have children, and also raise those children into adulthood. Allowing gays to do the same does nothing to preclude heterosexual couples from doing it still. Until you understand that basic point, you will not understand much of the movement for gay rights in general. Do you really want to understand it, or just keep throwing ignorant insults at it?

Brian
 
The Decline of Education: Compared to nearly all of American history, the average American school teaches much less about important subjects such as American history, English grammar, literature, music and art. Instead, schools are teaching much more about “social justice,” environmentalism and sex.
I'll take large heaping pile of Bullshit for $800 Alex.

The End of Male and Female: Whatever one’s position on same-sex marriage, one must acknowledge that at the core of the argument for this redefinition of marriage is that gender doesn’t matter. Marriage is marriage, and gender means nothing, the argument goes. So, too, whether children are raised by mother and father or two mothers or two fathers doesn’t matter. A father has nothing unique to offer a child that a mother can’t provide and vice versa.
Yeah, I'm so sick of Prager's crap arguments. Gender doesn't matter? A parent can only offer to a child a perspective of their own worldview. Whether that is a gay couple or straight couple, it still holds true. What I can offer my Daughter is almost entirely removed from my gender.

The End of Right and Wrong: At least two generations of American young people have been taught that moral categories are nothing more than personal (or societal) preferences. Since the Nazis thought killing Jews was right, there is no way to know for sure whether it was wrong; it’s the Nazis’ opinion against that of the Jews and anyone else who objects.
Godwin for the win! Personally, I'm actually giddy over this one, as gay marriage is becoming socially acceptable. Much like how inter-racial marriage was unacceptable and immoral in society and has slowly moved along the path of acceptability, so is gay marriage, though at a much faster rate. Proving that Social Norms... are indeed quite Social. That it isn't black and white is unfortunate, but life isn't black and white. Prager knows this, but intellectually he tries to blind himself from it.
 
I guess this person is a glass half empty kind of guy…

Civil rights regardless of skin color: Slavery was finally ended in December 6, 1865, but it took another 100 years for those rights to become truly enforceable across the whole of the US (not that it is even perfect today).

Women finally gained the obvious right to vote on August 20, 1920, after a century of battles to gain property/contract rights.

Long term per capita murder rate in the US in a slow long decline:
Violence-Stylized-2-300x205.png

Sexual orientation is slowly becoming not a reason to abuse people, with homosexuals being now able to marry in 37 states.

A table showing a century of declining illiteracy:
https://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp
Year Total
1870 20.0
1880 17.0
1890 13.3
1900 10.7
1910 7.7
1920 6.0
1930 4.3
1940 2.9
1947 2.7
1950 3.2
1952 2.5
1959 2.2
1969 1.0
1979 0.6


Never mind the improvements in life spans, general comfort, and medical care.

This one was funny enough that I thought I’d directly comment on it:
“The Decline of the Family: Nearly half (48 percent) of American children are born to a mother who is not married. Forty-three percent of American children live without a father in the home. About 50 percent of Americans over 18 are married, compared to 72 percent in 1960. Americans are having so few children that the fertility rate fell to a record low 62.9 births per 1,000 women in 2013.”
Who gives a flying fuck? First, the percent of people completing at least a BS has doubled since 1960. Second, just how many humans does this dolt think the planet can hold? It is not unlimited… And besides, people used to have many more children because they knew some of them would most probably die due to disease.
 
Nothing in the OP quotes mention democrats.

Well, Obama's bureaucrats have been putting the ghey juice in the water supply, causing men to leave their wives and children so that they can go and stick their wee-wee up other men's poo-poo holes, which leads to declining marriage rates and fatherless children. Some of them were teachers who now no longer show up to work and this increases class sizes and the declining educational standards that result from that.

Not sure how that ties into the art and the Nazis, but it's safe to say that those are Obama's fault as well.
 
One more comment to add here...

The End of Right and Wrong: At least two generations of American young people have been taught that moral categories are nothing more than personal (or societal) preferences. Since the Nazis thought killing Jews was right, there is no way to know for sure whether it was wrong; it’s the Nazis’ opinion against that of the Jews and anyone else who objects.

The End of Religion: There are no moral truths because there is no longer a religious basis for morality. Instead of being guided by a code higher than themselves, Americans are taught to rely on their feelings to determine how to behave. Instead of being given moral guidance, children are asked, “How do you feel about it?”
(emphasis added)

You have it phrased as "being guided by a code higher than themselves" but what about God or God's code makes it "higher," specifically and explicitly? If God exists, then God certainly has powers that we do not, but a being having powers does not make it more moral itself. Might does not make right. Other beings have powers that we as individuals do not. Some people can run faster, others can speak more languages fluently than we can, some animals can fly higher than humans can (who cannot fly at all). Again though, merely having powers does not make a being more moral. So no, we do not have objections to "being guided by a code higher than themselves." We just need better clarification on what about this God's code makes it "higher." Also, the God is not so much "guiding" people to do what it wants, but moreso orders them to do what it wants and invokes the carrot and stick (such as heaven and hell) to get them to do so. Bribes and threats do not work as well on some of us as it appears to on fundamentalist theists.

The way you phrase your points makes clear that you somewhat want to provoke us, Starman, and it does work to some extent, I will grant that. It also makes me feel a bit sorry for you too though, that you apparently derive pleasure yourself in trying to do so. So I have a mix of a reaction towards you, sometimes antagonistic and sometimes sympathetic, but mostly a mix of both that you behave this way. If you ever really want to be friendly and even make friends here, please do try and make the effort. Speaking for just myself, I will also make the effort to reciprocate back to you.

Brian
 
Gotta love his opening clause: 'As one who loves America...' Now we know where we stand, if we disagree with his assessments. What was the last refuge of scoundrels, again?...
 
Starman, notably you are quoting Prager making all those points in your OP, and you did not mention agreeing or disagreeing with them. I hope you do not use that as your rebuttal though in this case, since your points throughout your time on this forum makes the same sorts of points and rhetoric. On the chance that you do try to make that your counterargument though (that you are just quoting someone else, not making the point yourself), would you be willing to state what your own thoughts and views are on those subjects, and whether you agree or disagree with Prager's views on them?

Thanks,

Brian
 
The Decline of Education: Compared to nearly all of American history, the average American school teaches much less about important subjects such as American history, English grammar, literature, music and art. Instead, schools are teaching much more about “social justice,” environmentalism and sex.
I thought that he'd be celebrating "teaching to the test", something that's come to dominate much of our education.
The End of Religion: There are no moral truths because there is no longer a religious basis for morality. Instead of being guided by a code higher than themselves, Americans are taught to rely on their feelings to determine how to behave. Instead of being given moral guidance, children are asked, “How do you feel about it?”
"I'm just following God's orders."

So he'd enjoy being hated as a Christ-killer? After all, his haters would only be following orders about what is right and wrong.
 
It never fails to amuse me to hear nationalists of any stripe and any nationality say things like;

"As one who loves America — not only because I am American, but even more so because I know (not believe, know) that the American experiment in forming a decent society has been the most successful in history"

Since they can say this only by completely ignoring the existence of those countries that prove them wrong. :rolleyes:
 
It never fails to amuse me to hear nationalists of any stripe and any nationality say things like;

"As one who loves America — not only because I am American, but even more so because I know (not believe, know) that the American experiment in forming a decent society has been the most successful in history"

Since they can say this only by completely ignoring the existence of those countries that prove them wrong. :rolleyes:
Oddly, it only becomes more decent the more often we set aside the arbitrary limitations that earlier people put within the society.
 
Oddly, it only becomes more decent the more often we set aside the arbitrary limitations that earlier people put within the society.

What? That sounds an awful lot like LIBERALISM to me! As conservatives, we must surely reject any such progressive claptrap! Back to women not wearing dresses that extend above the ankle I say! Bring back the slaves!
 
“The Decline of the Family: Nearly half (48 percent) of American children are born to a mother who is not married. Forty-three percent of American children live without a father in the home. About 50 percent of Americans over 18 are married, compared to 72 percent in 1960. Americans are having so few children that the fertility rate fell to a record low 62.9 births per 1,000 women in 2013. And in an increasing number of states, there are now more deaths than births.

This is partially due to welfare, partially due to people not seeing the need to be married.

The Decline of Education: Compared to nearly all of American history, the average American school teaches much less about important subjects such as American history, English grammar, literature, music and art. Instead, schools are teaching much more about “social justice,” environmentalism and sex.

I certainly think environmentalism is far more important than music or art. I found both music and art classes completely useless.

Most universities have become secular seminaries for the dissemination of Leftism. Moreover, aside from indoctrination, students usually learn little. One can earn a BA in English at UCLA, for example, without having read a single Shakespeare play.

Learn little? If people learned little in school employers would not value degrees.

To the extent that American history is taught, beginning in high school and often earlier, American history is presented as the history of an immoral nation characterized by slavery, racism, colonialism, imperialism, economic exploitation, and militarism — not of a country that, more than any other, has been the beacon of freedom to mankind, and the country that has spent more treasure and spilled more blood to liberate other peoples than any other nation.

There's a lot of evil in history. We aren't whitewashing it like we used to.

The End of Male and Female: Whatever one’s position on same-sex marriage, one must acknowledge that at the core of the argument for this redefinition of marriage is that gender doesn’t matter. Marriage is marriage, and gender means nothing, the argument goes. So, too, whether children are raised by mother and father or two mothers or two fathers doesn’t matter. A father has nothing unique to offer a child that a mother can’t provide and vice versa.

And where's the problem here?

The End of Right and Wrong: At least two generations of American young people have been taught that moral categories are nothing more than personal (or societal) preferences. Since the Nazis thought killing Jews was right, there is no way to know for sure whether it was wrong; it’s the Nazis’ opinion against that of the Jews and anyone else who objects.

Evidence??

The End of Religion: There are no moral truths because there is no longer a religious basis for morality. Instead of being guided by a code higher than themselves, Americans are taught to rely on their feelings to determine how to behave. Instead of being given moral guidance, children are asked, “How do you feel about it?”

Most religions define plenty of evil things as proper behavior. Getting religion out of morality is a good thing.

The End of Beauty: Just as morality is subjective; so are beauty and excellence. There is no good or bad art or literature. Beethoven, Shakespeare, Michelangelo; all the great artist of all time are no better than street art and rappers.”

Beauty is certainly subjective. Just go look at the hot women thread, you'll see plenty of disagreements about which ones are the best.
 
Oddly, it only becomes more decent the more often we set aside the arbitrary limitations that earlier people put within the society.

What? That sounds an awful lot like LIBERALISM to me! As conservatives, we must surely reject any such progressive claptrap! Back to women not wearing dresses that extend above the ankle I say! Bring back the slaves!
Don't forget about dancing and rock and roll being tools of satan!
 
Who says "gender means nothing" for instance? Gender of course means something. What people like me argue is that your gender does not have to define who you are, who it is okay for you to be attracted to, and who it is okay for you to marry. Gender is not "nothing" but it is irrelevant to answering those questions. A person can be fit, healthy, a good parent, a solid role model, and still be attracted to someone of their same gender. The one does not preclude the other.

Also, when 2 gay people want to get married to each other, that does nothing to stop 2 straight people from wanting to marry each other either. Gays are not ending marriage, they are expanding it. You still have the right to want to marry whoever you want Starman, even if gays are allowed to want to marry each other. A heterosexual married couple can still have children, and also raise those children into adulthood. Allowing gays to do the same does nothing to preclude heterosexual couples from doing it still. Until you understand that basic point, you will not understand much of the movement for gay rights in general. Do you really want to understand it, or just keep throwing ignorant insults at it?

Lets look into history a bit.

I'm married to someone not of my race. This isn't anything remarkable these days, occasionally run into some objection from other Chinese people (who feel she shouldn't have married out of her race--and really strangely, one woman who didn't mind her marrying out of her race but objected once she realized our relationship are real, not merely a green card marriage!) but I don't get any objections.

However, go back twice the length of our marriage and things were very different--we would not have been allowed to marry. Marriage was a necessity for us as without it she wouldn't have had permission to remain here.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll take large heaping pile of Bullshit for $800 Alex.

Oh, come on now. This one's easy. $200.
 
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