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Define God

I'm grateful for all the feedback and engagement. It has cemented me in my approach. I stand with Spinoza and those who follow in his wake. Here is a summary the outlook that I expect to become general:

The nineteenth-century Jewish Enlightenment was like a beam of light refracted through a prism into a spectral band of brilliant intellectual colors spread across Western Europe. The prism through which Jewish thought was refracted was a Jew born in Amsterdam in 1632, a Jew so modern in his thinking that the second half of the twentieth century has not yet caught up with him. Excommunicated by the Jews in the seventeenth century, abhorred by the Christians in the eighteenth century, acknowledged great in the nineteenth century, Baruch Spinoza will perhaps not be fully understood even in the twenty-first century. But perhaps by then Spinoza's philosophy will have become the basis of a world religion for neomodern man.--Max I. Dimont / Jews, God and History, p. 343

Once Marx is understood as a son of Spinoza, the project of mapping humanity's generic essence is complete.

Was Spinoza not a pantheist? Yet earlier you rejected pantheism.

Why not for once tell us what YOU think, rather than quoting others?

Oh, I forgot — you said you don’t have thoughts of your own, but depend on the authority of others. Yet your authorities contradict one another,
 
Could you explain, in your own words, how Marx is the son of Spinoza? And how this fact, if it is a fact, completes the “mapping of humanity’s generic essence”? Could you explain, in your own words, what a “generic essence” is, and why humanity has it?
 
Could you explain, in your own words, how Marx is the son of Spinoza? And how this fact, if it is a fact, completes the “mapping of humanity’s generic essence”? Could you explain, in your own words, what a “generic essence” is, and why humanity has it?
(He also never can explain stuff in his own words. Only refers to quotes).
 
The reason why is it is so maddening to talk to @No Robots is because he refuses to discuss in his own words what he thinks and he is as difficult to pin down as a blob of mercury. He praises Spinoza and talks of the coming of worldwide Judaism and Marxism, yet neglects to mention that Spinoza was officially expelled by the Jewish community. He praises Spinoza while rejecting pantheism but Spinoza was a pantheist. He cites a coerced essay by Marx at age 17 in praise of Christianity but seems to reject Christianity in favor of. — what? Judaism and Spinoza? But how does that comport with Spinoza’s expulsion? And why should we think Marx’s compulsory adolescent essay in praise of Christ had anything to do with his later atheist materialist thought?
 
https://www.livescience.com/32879-what-happens-to-earth-when-sun-dies.html



What I want to know is why anyone would embrace the ideology of philosophers who were alive a long time ago? They didn't even have the scientific method back in those days. Amirite?

I'm not brilliant but I have tried to read some of those ancient philosophies as well as the Bible. I was forced to memorize many verses as a child. But, as a young adult and as an older adult, it all seems like irrelevant bullshit for the times in which we live. I'm ore impressed by what brilliant scientists have to say, like Neil deGrasse Tyson, who is admittedly an atheist and an astrophysicist.

I'm not a highly educated scientist but haven't we all been told by highly educated scientists that the sun will burn out one day, which will destroy anything living on the earth or simply quip our the planet? Assuming that's true, how the fuck are humans supposed to survive. Plus at the rate human activity is threatening so many species we need from bees to amphibians, we may all be gone long before the sun burns out. Thinking that humanity won't go extinct eventually is a very irrational idea. In fact, based on what little I have read on the subject, finding another planet for humans to move to also seems very irrational. Humans simply can't accept that we are mortal and will become extinct just like all the other animals. Enough said.

From the above link.


Stars are born, they live, and they die. The sun is no different, and when the sun dies, the Earth goes with it. But our planet won't go quietly into the night.


Rather, when the sun expands into a red giant during the throes of death, it will vaporize the Earth.

Perhaps not the story you were hoping for, but there's no need to start buying star-death insurance yet. The time scale is long — 7 billion or 8 billion years from now, at least. Humans have been around only about 40-thousandth that amount of time; if the age of the Earth were compressed into a 24-hour day, humans would occupy only the last second, at most. If contemplating stellar lifetimes does nothing else, it should underscore the existential insignificance of our lives.
 
Plato’s Republic posits a class-based society ruled by philosopher kings. How is this, @No Robots, remotely consistent with Marx’s views on how society should be organized? Please explain in your own words.
 
I'm grateful for all the feedback and engagement. It has cemented me in my approach. I stand with Spinoza and those who follow in his wake. Here is a summary the outlook that I expect to become general:

The nineteenth-century Jewish Enlightenment was like a beam of light refracted through a prism into a spectral band of brilliant intellectual colors spread across Western Europe. The prism through which Jewish thought was refracted was a Jew born in Amsterdam in 1632, a Jew so modern in his thinking that the second half of the twentieth century has not yet caught up with him. Excommunicated by the Jews in the seventeenth century, abhorred by the Christians in the eighteenth century, acknowledged great in the nineteenth century, Baruch Spinoza will perhaps not be fully understood even in the twenty-first century. But perhaps by then Spinoza's philosophy will have become the basis of a world religion for neomodern man.--Max I. Dimont / Jews, God and History, p. 343

Once Marx is understood as a son of Spinoza, the project of mapping humanity's generic essence is complete.

Dimont’s passage is a beautiful bit of prose, but it isn’t doing what you’re trying to make it do. He’s not “proving” a historical destiny, he’s writing, in the 1960s, a speculative perhaps about Spinoza’s future influence. The sentence you’re leaning on literally hangs on “perhaps” twice. That’s not a completed map of human nature, it’s a historian musing about how important Spinoza might become.

And “once Marx is understood as a son of Spinoza, the project of mapping humanity’s generic essence is complete” just ignores two awkward facts.

First, Marx explicitly rejects the idea of a fixed, transhistorical human essence that can be “mapped” once and for all. His whole point in the Theses on Feuerbach is that “human essence” is the ensemble of social relations and therefore changes with history. If essence is historical and relational by definition, then any claim that the mapping is now “complete” is anti-Marxist on its face.

Second, Spinoza → Marx is one contested genealogy among many. Marx is at least as much “son of” Hegel, Feuerbach, German idealism, British political economy, and French socialism as he is of Spinoza. Even people who do trace a Spinoza–Marx line (Althusser, Negri, etc.) treat it as a fruitful way of reading them, not as the moment where philosophy finishes its work and humanity’s “generic essence” is settled forever.

So at best, what you’ve got is, “Here’s a 20th-century Jewish popular historian being enthusiastic about Spinoza, and here’s my personal thesis that Marx + Spinoza are the final word on human nature.” That’s allowed as a belief. But nothing in that quote, or in Marx, or in Spinoza turns your belief into an inevitability of “serious study,” and nothing stops the rest of philosophy, history, anthropology, psychology, etc. from continuing to revise, reject, or bypass your preferred storyline.

NHC
 
Plato’s Republic posits a class-based society ruled by philosopher kings. How is this, @No Robots, remotely consistent with Marx’s views on how society should be organized? Please explain in your own words.
Why don't you just read the books I recommend? Macmurray's The Clue to history lays all this out. The Greeks were slavers and their philosophy was dualist. This dualism persists in the West, but it is giving way to monism, which originates in Judaism, and opens the way to universal communism. Marx is a crucial figure in this progress.
 
Plato’s Republic posits a class-based society ruled by philosopher kings. How is this, @No Robots, remotely consistent with Marx’s views on how society should be organized? Please explain in your own words.
Why don't you just read the books I recommend? Macmurray's The Clue to history lays all this out. The Greeks were slavers and their philosophy was dualist. This dualism persists in the West, but it is giving way to monism, which originates in Judaism, and opens the way to universal communism. Marx is a crucial figure in this progress.

Why don’t you just explain in your own words your argument and answer the questions put to you?
 
Plato’s Republic posits a class-based society ruled by philosopher kings. How is this, @No Robots, remotely consistent with Marx’s views on how society should be organized? Please explain in your own words.
Why don't you just read the books I recommend? Macmurray's The Clue to history lays all this out. The Greeks were slavers and their philosophy was dualist. This dualism persists in the West, but it is giving way to monism, which originates in Judaism, and opens the way to universal communism. Marx is a crucial figure in this progress.

Monism originates in Judaism. Does it?

But even if it does, what is the evidence for it?
 
The reason why is it is so maddening to talk to @No Robots is because he refuses to discuss in his own words what he thinks and he is as difficult to pin down as a blob of mercury. He praises Spinoza and talks of the coming of worldwide Judaism and Marxism, yet neglects to mention that Spinoza was officially expelled by the Jewish community. He praises Spinoza while rejecting pantheism but Spinoza was a pantheist. He cites a coerced essay by Marx at age 17 in praise of Christianity but seems to reject Christianity in favor of. — what? Judaism and Spinoza? But how does that comport with Spinoza’s expulsion? And why should we think Marx’s compulsory adolescent essay in praise of Christ had anything to do with his later atheist materialist thought?
The greatest Jews were renegades: Jesus, Spinoza, Marx.

Marx followed a trajectory from Hegel's idealism to his own materialism. As Waton points, it is merely necessary to connect these two to have a full and complete understanding of history. Other scholars have begun to realize this.

As I've said, it is derogatory to call Spinoza a pantheist. But he has been called worse things.
 
The reason why is it is so maddening to talk to @No Robots is because he refuses to discuss in his own words what he thinks and he is as difficult to pin down as a blob of mercury. He praises Spinoza and talks of the coming of worldwide Judaism and Marxism, yet neglects to mention that Spinoza was officially expelled by the Jewish community. He praises Spinoza while rejecting pantheism but Spinoza was a pantheist. He cites a coerced essay by Marx at age 17 in praise of Christianity but seems to reject Christianity in favor of. — what? Judaism and Spinoza? But how does that comport with Spinoza’s expulsion? And why should we think Marx’s compulsory adolescent essay in praise of Christ had anything to do with his later atheist materialist thought?
The greatest Jews were renegades: Jesus, Spinoza, Marx.

Marx followed a trajectory from Hegel's idealism to his own materialism. As Waton points, it is merely necessary to connect these two to have a full and complete understanding of history. Other scholars have begun to realize this.

As I've said, it is derogatory to call Spinoza a pantheist. But he has been called worse things.

A full and complete understanding of history.

:rolleyes:

A discussion with someone who can’t think for himself is a waste of time.

What does “a full and complete understanding of history” even mean? I mean, for fuck sake.

A trajectory from idealism to materialism. What does that mean?

Derogatory to call Spinoza a pantheist. Why? What does that mean?
 
I knew an Evangelical who insisted ancient Jews were responsible for writing, science, and math.

NR says he is a self anointed Jew.
 
The Universe is composed of 'mere' matter/energy.
But accepting that necessarily leads to depression and hopelessness! For some reason. Even though if we were to go by the same logic as that argument, depression itself would merely be caused by material processes, so we shouldn't be bothered much by it, because it's all due to mere material anyway. Thanks NR, depression solved.
 
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From the oft-quoted by No Robots Harry Waton:

The triumph of fascism will be the triumph of the communist soul. But the communist soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows that, just as in the Russian revolution the triumph of communism was the triumph of Judaism, so also in the triumph of fascism will triumph Judaism. The fascists believe that they are struggling against Judaism, in truth and in fact they are struggling for Judaism.

Okie-doke, then.
 
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