Democrats trying to unseat each other

[Harry Bosch]

Totally agree. I didn't word my post above well. What I'm really trying to say is that the left is far more fractured than the right. And the turnout on the left is puny. I fear a segment on the left losing hope, then running third party. A third party person on the left drawing 2% of the vote will throw the election to Pence/Trump.

Not necessarily. At this stage there are a lot of people who do not feel represented by either red or blue. A third party may indeed get enough votes that no party would be able to win required majority electoral votes. And that alone would be a huge wake up call for the plutocrats.

Yea, but the difference here is that your side needs far fewer votes to win an election due to the geographical advantages that you have. Secondly, I don't see much stress on the right. Your side is pretty united. The left is far more mushy.

 

[southernhybrid]

Has anyone mentioned that there are many who plan on challenging AOC for her seat? I think it's absurd to think that a Republican can beat her, but from what I've read in some other sources, she's not quite as popular in her own district as some think. I have no idea how popular she really is in the Bronx but apparently some Democrats seem to think it's worth challenging her.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/nyregion/aoc-2020-opponents.html?searchResultPosition=7

t is hard to imagine a scenario where Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez loses her seat next year. She has raised more than $3.4 million, is better known than some presidential candidates and handily won a district that is among the bluest in the nation.

But that hasn’t stopped people — lots of them — from trying to unseat her.

So far, eight Republicans and three Democrats have filed to run for Ms. Ocasio-Cortez’s seat in the Bronx and Queens. Two of the Republicans have each raised more than $420,000, even though no Republican has represented the Bronx in Congress in at least 50 years.

The moonshot nature of these candidacies, and the fervor for them regardless — the candidates, in both parties, have made the rounds on Fox News and become darlings of conservative media — underscores the fame and rancor that have surrounded Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.

I would assume that AOC will continue to be supported in her district, but who knows!

To be honest, I see AOC as a very divisive figure. Sometimes it seems as if she is growing more mature, but at other times, she appears to love being lavished with praise and attention. I am always skeptical about the true nature of any politician who seems more concerned with their own self interests than thoughtful consideration of how to bring people closer together, not further apart. AOC might be bringing people who think like her closer together, but she's not doing anything that I can see that is helping the country. it's fine to have people with very different points of view, as long as they realize that they must work with people who don't share those views. Pragmatism over idealism.

Don't get me wrong. I don't like the way that people are criticizing her. A lot of it is cruel and sexist. She has every right to state her views, but she needs to understand that her views don't reflect the views of most people outside of her district. In fact, I have no idea if most of her own district supports most of her views. I've read that voter turnout is historically low in her district, so it's difficult to know if most of her district supports her, or if they even care.

The Democratic Party has always been extremely diverse, and that's what makes it difficult to choose candidates who can win national or state wide elections.

 

[Derec]

Not necessarily. At this stage there are a lot of people who do not feel represented by either red or blue. A third party may indeed get enough votes that no party would be able to win required majority electoral votes. And that alone would be a huge wake up call for the plutocrats.

Only if they can get concentrated support in a few states. Even if they uniformly get 20%-30% across the board, that would be a lot of votes but zero EVs because only a plurality is needed to win a state.
National popular vote with a runoff (like in France) would be much more amenable to serious 3rd party or unaffiliated candidates.

 

[Derec]

Lots of other big-name lobbyists will be supporting Joe Kennedy III. In this one, it's the young one who is supported by big-money lobbyists, and it's the old one who is supported by Joe Crowley's nemesis, AOC.

It was Markey who pushed for nuclear to be excluded from GND. Therefore, JK3's victory might be a good thing in the long run.

 

[lpetrich]

... At this stage there are a lot of people who do not feel represented by either red or blue. A third party may indeed get enough votes that no party would be able to win required majority electoral votes. And that alone would be a huge wake up call for the plutocrats.

Because of Duverger's law, it is difficult to start an additional party. One can try, but it won't get very far.

So one will have to create a faction within an existing party. Like what the Tea Party did. Or run in third-party fashion inside one of the two parties. Like what Donald Trump did and what Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez did. Of the two, AOC is one of a faction in the Democratic Party, while DT is his own faction.

 

[lpetrich]

Activist groups are ‘amateurizing’ our political candidates - but if professional politicians are bad, then amateur ones are good, right?

That article is from 2017 Dec 17, almost two years ago, but its conclusions still look good.

Shocked by the election of President Trump and dismayed at Democrats’ lockout from the federal government, progressives are rapidly launching and scaling up efforts to recruit and support progressive candidacies. In doing so, they are playing catch-up with conservatives, who have been aggressively recruiting and sustaining insurgent primary bids since the Tea Party caught fire in 2009.

Then how Republican "Tea Party" activists have targeted other Republicans for being "primaried" - defeated in the primaries. That's IMO a good choice for activists to go: support one's favorite candidates in the primaries, so one does not have the lesser of the two major evils in the main election.

This provoked a reaction in the form of business groups wanting candidates willing to compromise and to have "a no-crazy-bills approach to legislating."

Since the shock of the 2016 election, independent and grassroots groups have sprung up in large numbers and with dizzying speed. An only partial list includes All of Us, Brand New Congress, the Collective PAC, Emerge America, Flippable, Forward Majority, Indivisible, Justice Democrats, Our Revolution, Run for Something, Sister District, Swing Left, and We Will Replace You. “Progressive Democrats energized by Trump’s win are recruiting, training, and organizing like I’ve never seen before,” one consultant said. Sorting through the activity, we notice three patterns.

They share several features:

• They point to their independence from the Democratic Party apparat, something which many of them think has failed the nation.
• They want to pull the party leftward.
• They want people with no public-office experience, people who seem uncorrupted.

When this article was written, the most spectacular success of this new movement was still in the future. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was a bartender in a Manhattan taco shop, and when she got off work, she would go to her district and go door-to-door. Like the Tea Party and like some others in this new wave of Democrats, she tried to primary an incumbent - 10-term incumbent Joe Crowley, "King of Queens", and likely successor of Nancy Pelosi as House Speaker.

But it helped that he did not notice her until late in the campaign, and he did not take her very seriously even then. He didn't show up for their first debate, he didn't do very well in the second one, and he sent in a substitute for the third one. "What are we, chopped liver?" the NYT editorialized. But AOC won, and she became a celebrity overnight. Being charismatic and ambitious also helped, with her having a girl-next-door and a Ms.-Smith-Goes-To-Washington persona.

That's why a lot of Democratic challengers get compared to AOC nowadays.

 

[lpetrich]

The article's list:

• ActBlue — Billions raised online since 2004
• All of Us or None | Prison Activist Resource Center
• Home | Brand New Congress
• The Collective PAC | Fighting for Equal Representation
• Emerge America
• EMILY's List
• Flippable | The movement to flip states blue and restore our democracy
• Forward Majority
• Home | Indivisible
• Justice Democrats
• Our Revolution
• Run For Something - Run For Something
• Sister District Project
• Swing Left | Transform our Government
• We Will Replace You | Organization | Common Dreams

AOC once stated that "For one of us to make it through, a hundred of us have to try." But these organizations are hoping to show that she was too pessimistic.

I find it very encouraging that many of them are supporting candidates for local and state office as well as for Congress. It's nice to see left-wing activists starting to recognize that the Presidency is not enough. AOC suspects that the failure of Obama's presidency was in part the failure of the progressive movement, and she is happy to be a part of the fix to that.

GOP to launch new fundraising site as Dems crush the online money game - POLITICO - originally called "Patriot Pass", and renamed "WinRed" - Trump, RNC launch 'WinRed' to compete with Dems' online fundraising machine | Fox News

 

[lpetrich]

Another endorsement by AOC.
Jessica Cisneros for TX-28

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Endorses Democratic Primary Challenger Jessica Cisneros | HuffPost - "Cisneros, a progressive, is hoping to unseat Texas Rep. Henry Cuellar, who has one of the most conservative voting records in their party."

Jessica is an incredible candidate who’s rooted in her community, who has served her community, who understands the working families of her community ― and she’s supportive of a progressive agenda,” Ocasio-Cortez told HuffPost in an interview.

“I want to be the shortest-lived ‘youngest congresswoman ever’!” she added with a laugh.

Jessica Cisneros:

“We need people’s support to let the people of South Texas know that for the first time in over a decade, we have another choice,” she said in an interview with HuffPost. “It took 13 years for someone to step up to Henry Cuellar, but it’s been so great to have the support of people both within the district and across the country.”

She's been endorsed by EMILY's List and Elizabeth Warren.

Ocasio-Cortez said she is familiar with border towns in the district from her past work as an education organizer for the National Hispanic Institute. While she is sensitive to the concerns of moderate Democrats representing swing seats, Texas’ 28th is a case of a solidly Democratic district where the constituents are likely more progressive than their member of Congress, Ocasio-Cortez argued. She alluded to the fact that Hillary Clinton defeated Donald Trump there by 20 percentage points in 2016.

That disconnect between member and constituents “happens a lot more than people care to admit,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “I say that speaking from very personal experience. I now represent one of the most progressive districts in Congress. For decades our representation was quite regressive compared to where my community was at.”

...
“I don’t intend on endorsing a challenger to just anyone who disagrees with me, but Jessica is truly an exceptional candidate,” she said.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Last year, NY-14 elected me as the youngest woman to serve in Congress.
Let’s help Jessica Cisneros shatter that record in 2020.
@JCisnerosTX is a powerful, progressive fighter. Her win will get us closer to a more just America.
I’m proud to support her:https://t.co/lOmKzTCuYF" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "If you take time to get to know @JCisnerosTX, you’ll understand how important her voice would be to Congress.
Back in the day I used to organize &work w families in her community.
This South Texas district is quite close to my heart. Check out her story: https://t.co/F9Bc2kUyvu" / Twitter

Justice Democrats on Twitter: "BREAKING: “When @JCisnerosTX is elected, not only will I no longer be the youngest person in Congress — I’ll have a strong new ally in the fight for Medicare for All, getting corporate money out of politics, and fixing our broken immigration system." -@AOC https://t.co/0xqLZoDjoo" / Twitter
then
Jessica Cisneros for Congress on Twitter: "Happy to take the title of Youngest Member of Congress from ya, @AOC! " / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "@JCisnerosTX Looking forward to it! " / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Ocasio-Cortez Endorses 'Powerful, Progressive Fighter' Jessica Cisneros in Primary Fight With Centrist Henry Cuellar | Common Dreams News - "When Jessica is elected, not only will I no longer be the youngest person in Congress—I'll have a strong new ally in the fight for Medicare for All, getting corporate money out of politics, and fixing our broken immigration system."

Ocasio-Cortez endorses Texas Democrat Henry Cuellar's primary challenger | TheHill

“The people of South Texas deserve a Democrat like Jessica who is going to fight for real people, not big corporate donors like the Koch Brothers, GEO Group, and Exxon,” the first-year progressive representative said in a statement sent by the Cisneros campaign.

• Koch brothers - fossil-fuel services
• GEO Group - privatized prisons
• Exxon - oil and gas

Justice Democrats on Twitter: ""In order to pass a transformative agenda for working class Americans, we gotta have the numbers, and we gotta have the leadership in place." -@AOC on her endorsement of @JCisnerosTX https://t.co/2DLqIti2m6" / Twitter

Rainbow Witch on Twitter: "@justicedems @AOC @JCisnerosTX I've never heard the media ask establishment politicians if their hours on corporate fund raising calls distract from their work in public service but a progressive campaigning for other progressives and suddenly that's going to distract from more pressing issues." / Twitter

But AOC nevertheless gave us a very good answer - we need all the help that we can get - challenging bad incumbents and supporting good incumbents.

 

[lpetrich]

The AOC Bump Is Giving Democratic Insurgents a Fighting Chance - VICE - "The new class of Democratic primary challengers is in a better position than Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was at this point in her race—thanks in large part to her victory."

Ocasio-Cortez herself raised just $60,000 in 2017, the year before her victory. But at a comparable point in their own campaigns, first-timer Morgan Harper, who is challenging Rep. Joyce Beatty (D-OH), has raised $323,000; Marie Newman, who is trying to defeat Rep. Dan Lipinski (D-Ill.) for the second consecutive cycle, has raised $350,0000; and Jessica Cisneros, the 26-year-old primarying Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-TX) has raised $310,000 in the third quarter, $460,000 in total, and secured key endorsements from the pro-choice political action committee EMILY’s List, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and Ocasio-Cortez.

But after seeing Joe Crowley's fate, their opponents won't be as complacent as he had been.


Greg Walden to retire in latest sign of GOP doubts about retaking House - POLITICO - the 19th House Republican to announce retirement so far

The Oregon Republican rebuked the president over the hugely controversial border wall project, backed Russia sanctions over Trump's objection, voted with Democrats to end the historic 35-day government shutdown and has been vocal about addressing climate change. But Walden also has stood by Trump throughout the Ukraine scandal and fallen in line on other key issues.

Walden is the fourth House GOP committee leader to call it quits this cycle. That list includes Reps. Mike Conaway (Texas), ranking member on the Agriculture Committee; Rob Bishop (Utah), ranking member on the Natural Resources Committee; and Mac Thornberry (Texas), ranking member on the House Armed Services Committee.

 

[lpetrich]

Michael Sayman on Twitter: "For those who want more AOCs in Congress, here is the latest list of progressives running for Congress in the 2020 primaries.
Here’s the full list: [url]https://t.co/NyldRNcGjU https://t.co/iIJkEmdPLO" / Twitter[/url]

List Of Progressives Running For 2020 Congress(Update 10-30-19) : WayOfTheBern - it's a list of challengers
Issues:

• M4A = Medicare For All
• GND = Green New Deal
• NC$ = No Corruption Money
• RMW = Raise Minimum Wage
• $15 = $15 Minimum Wage
• ETW = End The Wars
• VER = Voting/Election Reform
• CJR = Criminal Justice Reform
• RCV = Ranked Choice Voting
• ML = Marijuana Legalization
• EDR = End Drug War
• GR = Gun Reform
• DFC = Debt-Free College
• HIR = Humane Immigration Reform
• EC = End Corruption
• AH = Affordable Housing
• IRB = Infrastructure Rebuilding
• SPS = Single-Payer System

Endorsers:

• JD = Justice Democrats
• BNC = Brand New Congress
• OR = Our Revolution
• WFP = Working Families Party

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm curious who the heck Ocasio-Cortez thinks she is, and who her supporters that take her endorsements seriously think she is.

What in the heck experience or credentials as a Progressive leader does she think she has? She sounds like she thinks she is Eugene V Debs, just without any of the relevant experience that made Debs who he was. It is one thing to walk in, fight for a seat and be a progressive. It is another to just try and upset the tender balance there is in some seats where if Democrats aren't careful, they can lose seats.

She is a progressive soldier that is mistaking herself for a General!

 

[lpetrich]

I counted endorsers and issues:

• M4A/SPS: 45
• EC/NC$: 33
• GND: 32
• DFC: 12
• $15/RMW: 10
• EDR/EDW/ML: 10
• ETW: 9
• HIR: 9
• GR: 7
• CJR: 7
• VER: 7
• AH: 5
• IRB: 4
• RCV: 1

• BNC: 16
• JD: 5

So Medicare for All, ending corruption, and a Green New Deal are the highest priorities.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm curious who the heck Ocasio-Cortez thinks she is, and who her supporters that take her endorsements seriously think she is.

What in the heck experience or credentials as a Progressive leader does she think she has? She sounds like she thinks she is Eugene V Debs, just without any of the relevant experience that made Debs who he was. It is one thing to walk in, fight for a seat and be a progressive. It is another to just try and upset the tender balance there is in some seats where if Democrats aren't careful, they can lose seats.

She is a progressive soldier that is mistaking herself for a General!

All I can say is: you asked for this. Time and time again, when discussing whether or not there has been a shift in American political persuasions since Bernie's run in 2015/16, you demanded to know where the new crop of Bernie-esque politicians were. Now that there is a groundswell of young progressives who are committed to basically his entire agenda and then some, you scold their most promising and effective spokesperson for not knowing her place.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm curious who the heck Ocasio-Cortez thinks she is, and who her supporters that take her endorsements seriously think she is.

What in the heck experience or credentials as a Progressive leader does she think she has? She sounds like she thinks she is Eugene V Debs, just without any of the relevant experience that made Debs who he was. It is one thing to walk in, fight for a seat and be a progressive. It is another to just try and upset the tender balance there is in some seats where if Democrats aren't careful, they can lose seats.

She is a progressive soldier that is mistaking herself for a General!

All I can say is: you asked for this. Time and time again, when discussing whether or not there has been a shift in American political persuasions since Bernie's run in 2015/16, you demanded to know where the new crop of Bernie-esque politicians were. Now that there is a groundswell of young progressives who are committed to basically his entire agenda and then some, you scold their most promising and effective spokesperson for not knowing her place.

Actually I asked who anointed Ocasio-Cortez the head of the progressive wing and what was the basis for her to be 'endorsing' Democrat primary candidates.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm curious who the heck Ocasio-Cortez thinks she is, and who her supporters that take her endorsements seriously think she is.

What in the heck experience or credentials as a Progressive leader does she think she has? She sounds like she thinks she is Eugene V Debs, just without any of the relevant experience that made Debs who he was. It is one thing to walk in, fight for a seat and be a progressive. It is another to just try and upset the tender balance there is in some seats where if Democrats aren't careful, they can lose seats.

She is a progressive soldier that is mistaking herself for a General!

All I can say is: you asked for this. Time and time again, when discussing whether or not there has been a shift in American political persuasions since Bernie's run in 2015/16, you demanded to know where the new crop of Bernie-esque politicians were. Now that there is a groundswell of young progressives who are committed to basically his entire agenda and then some, you scold their most promising and effective spokesperson for not knowing her place.

Actually I asked who anointed Ocasio-Cortez the head of the progressive wing and what was the basis for her to be 'endorsing' Democrat primary candidates.

The First Ammendment? Her political principles and her right to advocate for them?

ETA: And she isn't the head of anything, at least not in any official sense. She's just among the most well-known of a certain brand of politicians, who tend not to be supported by (or supportive of) the Democratic party status quo.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Actually I asked who anointed Ocasio-Cortez the head of the progressive wing and what was the basis for her to be 'endorsing' Democrat primary candidates.

The First Ammendment? Her political principles and her right to advocate for them?

Thank you for that useless response, which actually didn't address that concern I raised regarding why she should consider herself a General for the progressive cause despite having been in the House for less than a single term.

ETA: And she isn't the head of anything, at least not in any official sense.

Her actions of supporting incumbent opponents in the primary certainly seems to suggest that she thinks her opinion is very important.

She's just among the most well-known of a certain brand of politicians...

She is well known, but again... clout is usually earned and I don't see anything behind her experience suggesting that she has any clout.

 

[PyramidHead]

Thank you for that useless response, which actually didn't address that concern I raised regarding why she should consider herself a General for the progressive cause despite having been in the House for less than a single term.

It's a nonsensical and insulting question. She's using her public position to advance an agenda that she was put in office to represent. That doesn't make her Generalissimo Cortez, it makes her a democratic socialist with a Twitter platform. She doesn't need your permission, nor anyone else's, to leverage her popularity to help candidates she agrees with.

Her actions of supporting incumbent opponents in the primary certainly seems to suggest that she thinks her opinion is very important.

She is well known, but again... clout is usually earned and I don't see anything behind her experience suggesting that she has any clout.

Then don't listen to her. Progressive politics is antithetical to the sort of credentialism you're pushing anyway. AOC was a bartender, Joshua Collins is a truck driver, Shahid Buttar is a musician, and they are all miles ahead of almost anyone in Congress in terms of their ideological commitments on basically every issue.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Thank you for that useless response, which actually didn't address that concern I raised regarding why she should consider herself a General for the progressive cause despite having been in the House for less than a single term.

It's a nonsensical and insulting question.

The heck it is.

She's using her public position to advance an agenda that she was put in office to represent. That doesn't make her Generalissimo Cortez, it makes her a democratic socialist with a Twitter platform. She doesn't need your permission, nor anyone else's, to leverage her popularity to help candidates she agrees with.

Except it risks actually moving an agenda forward if those trying to move it forward don't know what they are doing. Risking some seats so Republicans can take them doesn't progress the Progressive movement. So it is important to know what you are doing when you are challenging Democrat incumbents in areas that might suggest blueness, but are southern blue or the like.

Her actions of supporting incumbent opponents in the primary certainly seems to suggest that she thinks her opinion is very important.

She is well known, but again... clout is usually earned and I don't see anything behind her experience suggesting that she has any clout.

Then don't listen to her.

I'm worried about losing what little control the Democrats have at the moment. So it does matter.

Progressive politics is antithetical to the sort of credentialism you're pushing anyway.

You mean the whole pragmatic acceptance that America isn't this blue progressive utopia and that there are Democrats in the US that represent districts that can't get someone like Ocasio-Cortez elected? This, in most circles, is understanding reality.

AOC was a bartender, Joshua Collins is a truck driver, Shahid Buttar is a musician, and they are all miles ahead of almost anyone in Congress in terms of their ideological commitments on basically every issue.

That's wonderful. When does that equate progressive legislation being passed? You seem to be forgetting that majorities just don't happen in the House, and America is closer to moderate than they are left-wing, at least the GOP has convinced them they are.

Ocasio-Cortez's need to be in districts where they can actually get elected and not risk the seats.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I'm curious who the heck Ocasio-Cortez thinks she is, and who her supporters that take her endorsements seriously think she is.

What in the heck experience or credentials as a Progressive leader does she think she has? She sounds like she thinks she is Eugene V Debs, just without any of the relevant experience that made Debs who he was. It is one thing to walk in, fight for a seat and be a progressive. It is another to just try and upset the tender balance there is in some seats where if Democrats aren't careful, they can lose seats.

She is a progressive soldier that is mistaking herself for a General!

All I can say is: you asked for this. Time and time again, when discussing whether or not there has been a shift in American political persuasions since Bernie's run in 2015/16, you demanded to know where the new crop of Bernie-esque politicians were. Now that there is a groundswell of young progressives who are committed to basically his entire agenda and then some, you scold their most promising and effective spokesperson for not knowing her place.

Actually I asked who anointed Ocasio-Cortez the head of the progressive wing and what was the basis for her to be 'endorsing' Democrat primary candidates.

AOC has the public's ear. She is a political opinion leader. Realizing this, she is using her influence to maximize her political agenda. She is a progressive, as opposed to Republican conservatives, or Democratic center right moderates. Obviously. Shew has caught the public's attention, and the main stream media, not to mention, liberal and progressive media. This gives her opportunities she is using to as great effect as possible. Nobody anointed her. She just was one politician that found out how to work the mass media and social media to her advantage.

Not that much different from Congressman Louie Gohmert becoming a loud mouthed spokesman for moron tea party Republicans.