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Did Job consent to be the object of a test by God because of Satan's dare?

 
 
 
repoman

repoman

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This is a compare/contrast to the Virgin Mary consent issue.

Also, now that I think about it, what about the plot of "Trading Places" for a wager between two powerful people that turned a man's life upside down?
 
repoman said:
This is a compare/contrast to the Virgin Mary consent issue.

Also, now that I think about it, what about the plot of "Trading Places" for a wager between two powerful people that turned a man's life upside down?
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Yes, what happened to Job and his family was pretty reprehensible.
But it's easy to see the purpose of the story: It gives one explanation as to why god allows bad things to happen to good devout people. e.g. To 'test' their faith, to help them grow spiritually.
The story is meant for believers, not for outsiders; who would tend to view it skeptically.
 
For my son's sake, I hope God never considers me a blameless and upright man.

I would like to be one of those men, for sure. I just hope God never notices it, or else my son's life may be forfeit.
 
James Brown said:
For my son's sake, I hope God never considers me a blameless and upright man.

I would like to be one of those men, for sure. I just hope God never notices it, or else my son's life may be forfeit.
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Back then, a man's family was viewed as something like property. Men were much freer to do with their wife and children whatever they wanted.
I would like to think a modern Christian or Jew wouldn't create such a story. But I've known Christians who have viewed an illness in their family as God's test for them, personally.
 
Job had no choice and did not even know what God and Satan were up to.

There is a problem of why there is an all powerful god but evil in this world that affects good people. The writer of this tall tale ends up without a good reason and Tells us, we have no right to demand an answer from almighty God. God in the end browbeats Job, bullies Job and gives no real answer. Which makes this the Biblical answer to that question for us. We have no right to demand an answer from God for that situation. God does what God does and God does not have to answer to us.

No place in the Bible, OT or NT does the Problem of Evil get a satisfying answer. Why God is good, merciful, compassionate fair and Just and yet these things happen. Which has a lot of "sophisticated" theologians telling us, God is not a moral agent, and God owes us no moral obligations.
 
All Job knew was shit started rating down on him.
 
Job DID have a choice and he DID know that the contest of good versus evil offered humans a chance to respond in deference to God or to respond in disobedience and resentment.

Job clearly expresses his pre-existing understanding that suffering does not justify a (cursing) accusation against God.

And God knows that Job knows. God isn't testing Job.

It's quite clear from the text that both God and Job could have told satan from the outset that he was wasting his time.
 
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"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

Job had already sided with God, said yes to God, eschewed evil (satan).
He would have had to withdraw his pre-existing obedient consent.
 
Lion IRC said:
"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

Job had already sided with God, said yes to God, eschewed evil (satan).
He would have had to withdraw his pre-existing obedient consent.
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Even if 'siding with God' is granted, this is far from a consent to be tortured by consent God and having your family killed by the consent of God....which itself is an example of Evil. Eschewing evil, Job experienced acts of evil from the very Entity he embraced.
 
I consent to God every time I pray...
"Thy will be done..."
 
Lion IRC said:
I consent to God every time I pray...
"Thy will be done..."
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and to you that is consent to have your family murdered to prove that you meant it!?
"Prove" to an evil being by a supposedly omnipotent god?

So God gets totally played by Satan and agrees to let a whole family be murdered just to see whose dick is bigger?

You know what would be just freakin' hilarious? If some of those family members lost their faith during the torture and wound up in Hell because of God's chest-thumping.
The good news, of course is that when Job gets to heaven with his new family (which made everything all right), he will not notice or care that his first family is missing, since God promised no sorrow or hurt there. Out of sight, out of mind!

So cool that torture and pain are totally okay in your book. "Hey, there are no scars, you're not really hurt. I just raped you, I didn't hurt you."
Exhibit A on how evil Christianity is.
 
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According to my Oxford Bible Commentary Job was likely allegory for Jews in captivity. Contemporary Jews who heard the story would have seen it. Also Job was likely a part of a larger set of teaching materials.

The books of the OT are likely a fraction of all the Jewish writings.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
Job had no choice and did not even know what God and Satan were up to.

There is a problem of why there is an all powerful god but evil in this world that affects good people. The writer of this tall tale ends up without a good reason and Tells us, we have no right to demand an answer from almighty God. God in the end browbeats Job, bullies Job and gives no real answer. Which makes this the Biblical answer to that question for us. We have no right to demand an answer from God for that situation. God does what God does and God does not have to answer to us.

No place in the Bible, OT or NT does the Problem of Evil get a satisfying answer. Why God is good, merciful, compassionate fair and Just and yet these things happen. Which has a lot of "sophisticated" theologians telling us, God is not a moral agent, and God owes us no moral obligations.
Click to expand...

It might not answer it, but at least it tells us God can beat up a sea monster.
 
The bible also tells us that God is the Author of Evil. As the story goes, if evil exists in the World, it is the work of God. The Creator being responsible for the state of Creation.
 
To use a modern metaphor, we are but an action adventure fantasy animation created by a god for his, hers, or its enjoyment.

Like one of the old Greek gods movies where they are up on high somewhere playing around with the lives of humans. Along with a little sex between gods and humans.
 
steve_bank said:
To use a modern metaphor, we are but an action adventure fantasy animation created by a god for his, hers, or its enjoyment.

Like one of the old Greek gods movies where they are up on high somewhere playing around with the lives of humans. Along with a little sex between gods and humans.
Click to expand...

That would make far more sense than what Christian theology tells us.
 
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