Disappointing: Stacey Abrams endorses a "baptist pastor" in US Senate special election

[Derec]

Stacey Abrams endorses Atlanta pastor in Georgia Senate bid

 

[laughing dog]

Why is this "disappointing"?

 

[ZiprHead]

Why is this "disappointing"?

Do you think there really is something Derec would approve of that Stacey Abrams might do?

 

[Derec]

Why is this "disappointing"?

The better question would be, why is it not disappointing, on an atheist forum, that a cleric is being endorsed for a political office.

 

[Derec]

Do you think there really is something Derec would approve of that Stacey Abrams might do?

There is plenty she might do that I would approve of. Endorsing clerics, especially those who support a cop killer like Troy Davis, is not one of those things.

 

[laughing dog]

Why is this "disappointing"?

The better question would be, why is it not disappointing, on an atheist forum, that a cleric is being endorsed for a political office.

Given the dearth of "outed" atheists in politics, unless there is an atheist who is also running, I find your response rather naive.

 

[Derec]

Given the dearth of "outed" atheists in politics, unless there is an atheist who is also running, I find your response rather naive.

An out atheist is too much to ask for, especially in Georgia, but it doesn't have to be a freaking Southern Baptist pastor either. Talk about the fallacy of the excluded middle!

 

[laughing dog]

Given the dearth of "outed" atheists in politics, unless there is an atheist who is also running, I find your response rather naive.

An out atheist is too much to ask for, especially in Georgia, but it doesn't have to be a freaking Southern Baptist pastor either. Talk about the fallacy of the excluded middle!

There is a wide range among Southern Baptists. Not all are raging unthinking bible thumpers. So, is there something more specific to this pastor or is this some kneejerk aversion to Southern Baptists?

 

[Derec]

There is a wide range among Southern Baptists. Not all are raging unthinking bible thumpers.

Maybe among rank and file, but this dude is a pastor.

So, is there something more specific to this pastor or is this some kneejerk aversion to Southern Baptists?

Nothing more specific yet. He is low-profile enough not to have a wiki page (not even a red link) and his campaign website doesn't have much either. But I definitely have an aversion toward clerics in political office.

 

[southernhybrid]

If you don't like who Stacey endorsed, don't vote for him in the primaries. Just because he's a Baptist pastor doesn't mean he wouldn't represent all of the people of Georgia. And, black Baptists usually don't have that much in common with white Baptist evangelicals. I have no idea who I will vote for in the primaries here, but I will try to get more information on the candidates soon, so I can make an informed decision.

My vote isn't based on race, gender or religious beliefs. If an atheist was running as a Republican, I wouldn't vote for him, because our political ideologies would be too different.

 

[laughing dog]

There is a wide range among Southern Baptists. Not all are raging unthinking bible thumpers.

Maybe among rank and file, but this dude is a pastor.

It is not just the rank and file, so this is basically kneejerk prejudice against Southern Baptist pastors.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If you don't like who Stacey endorsed, don't vote for him in the primaries. Just because he's a Baptist pastor doesn't mean he wouldn't represent all of the people of Georgia. And, black Baptists usually don't have that much in common with white Baptist evangelicals. I have no idea who I will vote for in the primaries here, but I will try to get more information on the candidates soon, so I can make an informed decision.

My vote isn't based on race, gender or religious beliefs. If an atheist was running as a Republican, I wouldn't vote for him, because our political ideologies would be too different.

The candidate is a pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church where MLK Jr use to preach. He attended Morehouse and has a PhD. I'd guess the PhD is in theology and so I wouldn't put too much stock in it. However, in terms of being educated, he's very educated. He wrote a book Divided Mind of the Black Church: Theology, Piety, and Public Witness, 20% of which is available for preview on Google books. If you read his campaign website he mentions "a living wage" and "expanding healthcare," both good positions for a progressive. He has been very, very involved in political and social activism for many years. He is a member of many activist groups, spearheading some.

Here's an example: heads the Atlanta chapter of the National Black Leadership Commission on AIDS. He took an HIV test in front of his congregation to help remove the stigma. The reason I want to bring this up is the implication of being a pastor is one of being conservative, especially socially conservative, anti-freedom, and regressive. On this same general topic, there's probably concern about gay rights and what opinions he has. Here's an article:

14 May 2012. The Atlanta Constitution. Gay marriage not only issue, pastor cautions. Page B2:

...Warnock told the congregation no matter what side they are on regarding gay marriage, the church is about being inclusive.

"There are gay sisters and brothers all around us, " he told the congregation. "The church needs to be honest about human sexuality. Some of them are on the usher board. They greeted you this morning."​

What other conservative position might be a concern? Separation of church and state? Remember, Warnock is following the tradition of MLK Jr. Here's MLK on the issue:

King supported the Supreme Court’s decisions striking down government-sponsored prayer in public schools. In a January 1965 interview with Playboy magazine, King was asked about one of those rulings. He not only backed what the court did, he noted that his frequent nemesis, Gov. George Wallace of Alabama, stood on the other side.

“I endorse it. I think it was correct,” King said. “Contrary to what many have said, it sought to outlaw neither prayer nor belief in God. In a pluralistic society such as ours, who is to determine what prayer shall be spoken, and by whom? Legally, constitutionally or otherwise, the state certainly has no such right. I am strongly opposed to the efforts that have been made to nullify the decision. They have been motivated, I think, by little more than the wish to embarrass the Supreme Court. When I saw Brother Wallace going up to Washington to testify against the decision at the congressional hearings, it only strengthened my conviction that the decision was right.”

Were he alive today, it’s unlikely King would endorse the Religious Right’s current crusades for teaching creationism and “intelligent design” in public schools. King saw no need for religion and science to fight. “Science keeps religion from sinking into the valley of crippling irrationalism and paralyzing obscurantism,” he once wrote.

So, the op is a sham.

There is no relative danger in supporting Warnock over any other Democrat.

...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

/mod

 

[Politesse]

I'm with Derec on this one. Well, I don't care about the endorsement, but I do care about the run itself. An ordained minister running for political office is a clear violation of the principle of the separation of powers. Even if I really liked the candidate for some reason, mixing church and state power places both in a more precarious position.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm with Derec on this one. Well, I don't care about the endorsement, but I do care about the run itself. An ordained minister running for political office is a clear violation of the principle of the separation of powers. Even if I really liked the candidate for some reason, mixing church and state power places both in a more precarious position.

That is a good point. I would have thought he would be giving up his position in the church to run, but I just read an article in today's Atlanta Journal about him, and he said he has no plans to give up his leadership role in the church. Since that's the case, I won't be supporting him in the primaries, but I'd still vote for him if he runs agains Doug Collins or Kelly Loeffler. If Warnock agreed to give up his pastoral duties completely, I would consider voting for him in the primaries. Another negative is that he has no political experience. That makes me skeptical of his candidacy.

We do have two other candidates to choose from. One is a son of Joe Lieberman and the other Ed Tarver, who worked as US attorney during the Obama administration. I will have to learn more about the two and decide which one I think has a better chance of defeating either of the two possible Republican candidates.

 

[Derec]

Since that's the case, I won't be supporting him in the primaries, but I'd still vote for him if he runs agains Doug Collins or Kelly Loeffler.

There will be no traditional primaries for the special election. Instead, everybody runs in November, and if no one candidate gets a majority, there will be a run-off between the top two vote getters.

We do have two other candidates to choose from. One is a son of Joe Lieberman and the other Ed Tarver, who worked as US attorney during the Obama administration. I will have to learn more about the two and decide which one I think has a better chance of defeating either of the two possible Republican candidates.

Matt Lieberman is another virtual unknown. We shall see how it shakes out. There is a chance Dems could get one of the two Senate seats contested this year.

 

[Derec]

The candidate is a pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church where MLK Jr use to preach.

So? Germans have a good expression for that - to adorn oneself with the plumage of another.

He attended Morehouse

That is a negative in my book. Morehouse is a racially exclusive college. In the days of MLK Jr. (he attended in the 40s) blacks were still prevented from attending mainstream universities, but that is no longer the case, and it hasn't been for decades. People who seek to go to HBCUs nowadays do so in order to attend a racially monochromatic school, to avoid as many non-black people as possible.
Warnock is seeking to represent all the people of Georgia - not just black ones.

and has a PhD. I'd guess the PhD is in theology and so I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

Bingo! It's right up there with a PhDs in comparative folk dancing and advanced fly-fishing.
And that you have to guess is another thing. I could not find an online bio for the guy. He has no wikipedia page, and his campaign website is kind of sparse.

However, in terms of being educated, he's very educated. He wrote a book Divided Mind of the Black Church: Theology, Piety, and Public Witness, 20% of which is available for preview on Google books. If you read his campaign website he mentions "a living wage" and "expanding healthcare," both good positions for a progressive. He has been very, very involved in political and social activism for many years. He is a member of many activist groups, spearheading some.

Then why is there so little about the guy online? Also, I have a problem with the concept of a living wage. Not every job is meant to support a family - entry level jobs are not. And even for those that are meant to support a family, what family size are we talking about? Cost of living increases with the number of children you have. A living wage for a family of four would be very different than a living wage for a family of 14.

Here's an example: heads the Atlanta chapter of the National Black Leadership Commission on AIDS. He took an HIV test in front of his congregation to help remove the stigma. The reason I want to bring this up is the implication of being a pastor is one of being conservative, especially socially conservative, anti-freedom, and regressive. On this same general topic, there's probably concern about gay rights and what opinions he has. Here's an article:

What other conservative position might be a concern? Separation of church and state? Remember, Warnock is following the tradition of MLK Jr.

Just because he pastors a church MLK pastored over a half a century ago does not mean he gets MLKs righteousness imputed to him.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I was hoping for some large scale management experience. But the candidate sounds like he doesn't have that much... and he wants to remain a Pastor?

 

[southernhybrid]

Since that's the case, I won't be supporting him in the primaries, but I'd still vote for him if he runs agains Doug Collins or Kelly Loeffler.

There will be no traditional primaries for the special election. Instead, everybody runs in November, and if no one candidate gets a majority, there will be a run-off between the top two vote getters.

We do have two other candidates to choose from. One is a son of Joe Lieberman and the other Ed Tarver, who worked as US attorney during the Obama administration. I will have to learn more about the two and decide which one I think has a better chance of defeating either of the two possible Republican candidates.

Matt Lieberman is another virtual unknown. We shall see how it shakes out. There is a chance Dems could get one of the two Senate seats contested this year.

Yeah, I just read about this earlier today. Actually, what I read was kind of confusing. I think it said something about the Democrats wanting an actual primary but Kemp objects. I might have misunderstood. Do you have a link that clarifies exactly what is going on in this particular race?

My guess is that none of the candidates running in the special election will get enough votes, and then there will be a run off. There are currently two Republicans and three Democrats running for that seat. The only Democratic candidate that has enough experience is Tarver. Not only did he work for the Obama administration, he was a state Senator in Georgia. After he was reelected, he was offered the position in the Obama administration, so he didn't sever that term. He seems fairly realistic, but that doesn't mean he will become the nominee.

Stacey is extremely popular, as I"m sure you know, so her endorsement might be what makes the pastor difficult to beat. I'm just very disappointed that he's not giving up his role in the church. Of course, this will bring a lot of criticism. The IRS will be watching him closely, since he is risking his tax exempt status if he mixes his candidacy with his position in the church. From what I've read, it looks as if he's trying to be very careful. Still, it does appear to be a conflict to be a pastor and a candidate for a federal Senate position.

The two Republicans are pretty shallow when it comes to experience as well. Collins does have actually experience in Congress, but OMG, he is one of the biggest assholes in Congress. I hope he's not our next Senator.

I doubt that Lieberman will get very far, so I'm not planning on voting for him.