Disposition

[fast]

Though you're surely aware of this, it's worth noting that "African American" is merely a subset of the black race. There are black people in Africa, Canada, Europe, the Caribbean, etc. You're talking about something that you tend to notice among blacks, but these are apparently blacks in South Carolina, an even smaller subset than "African Americans". It's feasible that there is some mystery trait that South Carolinan blacks have in common, just as there would be something that South Carolinans in general have in common. Further, there would be traits that American blacks/Americans in general have in common which wouldn't necessarily be shared by blacks/non-blacks from other countries.

People are different, yes, but there are similarities and differences between certain groups of them, yet I can't for the life of me find a way to articulate just what it is I'm noticing about black people when I get this wave of clarity of thought that convinces me that there is something not just different but disliked.

Well, it's possible to subdivide the group "black people" into various subsets. For example, as I've done above, you can subdivide us by regional and national origin. Then you can look at individuals from each subset and determine whether the thing you're perceiving is distributed equally amongst subsets or if it's clustered more among particular subsets. You might also consider subdividing us by class, as mannerisms can certainly vary with one's socioeconomic strata.

See, it's not the people, not the race, and not the skin color. It's more like an attitude that members of any race can have, yet it's not so much attitude (yet interestingly enough, this mystery trait tends to surface when they have an attitude)

I don't understand this parenthetical. There are different kinds of attitudes that a person can have. What does it mean for a trait to surface when a person has "an" attitude? Does it surface no matter what kind of attitude the person has?

as it is some kind of disposition. I don't notice it all the time, and I've noticed it in a few non-blacks.

In many ways, it reminds me of our ability to quickly glean whether a person (even without an accent) is from up north or down south.

Is this a real ability? I would be cautious of selective perception here (counting the hits, ignoring the misses). But supposing it is actually true that you're able to do better than random chance at determining this without hearing an accent, then it would be from some combination of body language and other physically observable features, basically the sorts of features that a cold reader or Sherlock Holmes would pay attention to in order to draw inferences about a person. Except since you didn't hone this skill on a conscious level, you're not exercising it systematically on a conscious level. Your senses are taking in the information and some module in your unconscious mind is analyzing it and drawing inferences, without you actually knowing what your inferences are based upon. There's some "northerner" pattern in your head somewhere and when you collect enough data points to match that pattern, an alarm goes off and tells your conscious mind where the person's from.

I very much appreciate your response.

It may very well be a kind of mannerism that I'm picking up on, and it might help explain the parenthetical you mentioned, as I tend to notice it more so than not during certain times when their behavior is out of the norm.

 

[fast]

Hmmm. That's tough. I would never marry (well, I say never) a black woman, and though it's preference, I can't honestly say it's JUST preference, which means there's more to why I wouldn't, and I don't know if that's racism or not--maybe.

That 's certainly racist. Prejudice is judging an individual by a group identity.

well damn. I kinda feel bad now

 

[NobleSavage]

nm

 

[Rhea]

It took me a while to get past the visceral reaction to the OP that it was thoroughly judging and yes, racist, to say that "they" have "some nuance" that offends. But clear-headed posters above have nicely taken the questions at face value and offered good points.

I agree that it is very likely that you are muddling your perceptions by confirmation bias; where you don't count up the non-"certain disposition" moments and remember clearly and firmly the "certain disposition" moments, leading to what is effectively racism when you encounter people who are black. And I think you can start to fix this by seeing and meeting more people from more places. When you meet and get to know more people of many races and, more importantly I think, many cultures, you will start to find that these "certain dispositions" don't have much in common with racial lines and you can probably successfully separate your preference for certain cultures away from your feelings that they align with a race.

To answer what I think is part of your question, I think racism kind of _is_ when we take that other trait that bothers us and mentally associate it with an entire race of people. Getting to know people from different areas can break that racism. And being more tolerant of different ways of being can help get rid of the problem of being bothered by the nuance in the first place. One way to be more tolerant of others, I find, is to take more notice of my own "certain dispositions" and recognize that I have them and do things that other people find annoying or disturbing or whatever. And that we're all just human and it's all okay.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It doesn't make sense to dislike an individual because of skin color.

I'm not sexually attracted to many black women. Is that just a preference or is it racism?

As long as it's about you, it's not racism. Racism is judging others based on their race. If you're of the opinion that only black men would find black women appropriate as partners for sexual relations ,that would be racist. If you're just saying 'those women don't make my dick hard' then it's not racism. If you're evaluating each individual woman as a possible candidate for sexual relations, that's, like, the opopsite of racism.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Don't be surprised to find that you are indeed a racist to some degree. We all are. It's something we manage for the good of the community, however large or small.

Yeah.
I don't know where this comes from, but if i see an interracial couple, black man with a white woman, i have an instant thought that it's wrong. There's no justification for it ,and as near as i can tell it passes and has no lasting effects on how i treat them, but it is there for an instant.
It's almost like something out of Sesame Steet, i see the couple for the first time, that overvoice from the pronunciation guide says , "Wrong. This is....wrong." And then it's over.

Oddly, if the polarity is reversed, if it's a white man with a black woman, it reminds me of my marriage and it makes me horny. It's only for an instant, but it is definitely NOT Sesame street. There's no voice, just graphics.

 

[thebeave]

yeah the problem is with your race.

It doesn't make sense to dislike an individual because of skin color.

Yeah, I get annoyed when I hear morons, especially those on this board, who claim that white people don't like black people because of the color of their skin. Its fucking nonsense. Where I live there are many, many dark skinned Indians (mostly young and male) here working in the tech industry. Their skin is often darker than African Americans! Its almost like the United States of India around here sometimes. They often walk the streets in groups, dressed in casual clothes. No one walks to the other side of the street to avoid them "because of their dark skin", or gets nervous or avoids them. I have yet to hear any claims of racial bias against Indians or any hate crimes against Indians. If anything, there is a preference for them when it comes to tech employment, education, housing, etc.

So, yeah, its not skin color that's relevent. Its something else.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Racism isn't just skin tone obviously. People despise entire groups for their religious views, ethnicity, etc. In my parents generation catholics and protestants didn't mingle, and their ethnic churches would rather fail than consolidate. Atheists were scum, gays just as bad.

I like to feel superior in some ways to the person next to me. Maybe it's the way I dress or my choice of cars. But if I speak about entire groups with disdain, or don't want my kids playing with other kids because of some prejudice I harbor, then I'm racist.

When we lived in Alabama and MIL came to visit for a while she saw the kids out there playing with what Archie Bunker would not consider "regular americans." She said, "Your son is playing with a B-L-A-C-K girl." Prejudices are just hard to shed.

 

[fast]

It took me a while to get past the visceral reaction to the OP that it was thoroughly judging and yes, racist, to say that "they" have "some nuance" that offends. But clear-headed posters above have nicely taken the questions at face value and offered good points.

I agree that it is very likely that you are muddling your perceptions by confirmation bias; where you don't count up the non-"certain disposition" moments and remember clearly and firmly the "certain disposition" moments, leading to what is effectively racism when you encounter people who are black. And I think you can start to fix this by seeing and meeting more people from more places. When you meet and get to know more people of many races and, more importantly I think, many cultures, you will start to find that these "certain dispositions" don't have much in common with racial lines and you can probably successfully separate your preference for certain cultures away from your feelings that they align with a race.

To answer what I think is part of your question, I think racism kind of _is_ when we take that other trait that bothers us and mentally associate it with an entire race of people. Getting to know people from different areas can break that racism. And being more tolerant of different ways of being can help get rid of the problem of being bothered by the nuance in the first place. One way to be more tolerant of others, I find, is to take more notice of my own "certain dispositions" and recognize that I have them and do things that other people find annoying or disturbing or whatever. And that we're all just human and it's all okay.

Counting the hits with the misses with people of any race ... That's gonna require I pay very close attention. I think I have been generalizing to such a great extent that I need to take a step back and truly consider that not all (nor even most) people of any race exhibit these nuances I perceive. Any yes, I do need to be better in touch with cultural differences. Some are pretty strange to me, but I guess I need to remember that 'different' doesn't mean 'wrong' or 'abnormal'.

Thank you, and so you know, what you say isn't falling on deaf ears.

 

[Rhea]

Counting the hits with the misses with people of any race ... That's gonna require I pay very close attention. I think I have been generalizing to such a great extent that I need to take a step back and truly consider that not all (nor even most) people of any race exhibit these nuances I perceive. Any yes, I do need to be better in touch with cultural differences. Some are pretty strange to me, but I guess I need to remember that 'different' doesn't mean 'wrong' or 'abnormal'.

Thank you, and so you know, what you say isn't falling on deaf ears.

I'm glad it's helpful. We have a lot of Autism/Asperger's to deal with in my family and the different way of thinking really can be a challenge. many people accuse those with Autism of "not being tolerant of others' ideas," but I find that many people are not tolerant of the autism way of thinking, too.

A wonderful autobiography of a man with Aspergers called, "Look Me in the Eye" starts with a quote from him that I find incredibly useful in acknowledging my own flaws and forgiving those in others. He said,

"It never occurred to me that a kid would not know how to play in dirt. But there was Dougie, doing it wrong."​

A lot to think about there.

 

[Philos]

Folks,

I went on holiday to Spain with a young black Jamaican friend (I'm a white Brit). The whole holiday was different due to the way he was treated. There was nothing odd in his disposition that I was aware of, but he was treated differently. Some of my acquaintances in Spain shunned us, although they had previously welcomed me.

It was a learning experience. Nice time with him though.

He has since died of a brain tumour but I often think of him with affection.

Alex.

PS - The interesting thing was the way he took it, with resignation and no anger. He was careful with duty frees as he said "I'm always searched" and he was!

 

[Malintent]

Do you have any black friends? How are they different or like your white friends?

Do you have any whites you dislike, and I mean on a personal level? You can only sort out your thoughts if you apply those thoughts to specific individuals. Don't be surprised to find that you are indeed a racist to some degree. We all are. It's something we manage for the good of the community, however large or small.

That's just it... Black people (where I am from) purposefully and conciously have their own, separate community. They act for the good of THEIR community (as they see it). They have their own music, art, culture, and even language. They, as a group upholding their cultural history, are maintaining this divide.

Do you see Chinese immagrants walking around in Buddhist robes with bald heads except one long braid coming out the top that they use as a martial arts weapon.. are they carrying chopsticks around with them to eat everything with (not just "chinese food")? No, they have assimilated.
Do you see mexican immigrants setting up barrito stands, wearing ponchos and sambraos? No, they look like american farmers in denim overalls.. they WANT to look American.

What do you see black people (who are exuding that "disposition") doing? acting American? not really.

 

[Malintent]

It may very well be a kind of mannerism that I'm picking up on, and it might help explain the parenthetical you mentioned, as I tend to notice it more so than not during certain times when their behavior is out of the norm.

Ya.. it's called, "acting like a nigger". White people can act that way too.. it is not "blacks are niggers".. niggers are niggers, blacks are blacks (and can act like a nigger) and whites are white (and can act like a nigger).

so what is "acting like a nigger". It is the disposition you are probably talking about.