Do female tennis players deserve the same prize money as male tennis players?

[Metaphor]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/spo...lliams-to-novak-djokovic-20160322-gnp374.html

Serena Williams has slammed Novak Djokovic for saying men deserved more prize money than women, questioning how he would explain a gender pay gap to his children.

Public stoushes do not come much bigger in the tennis world – Williams is ranked No.1 in the women's competition, while Djokovic is top of the table in the men's.

Williams was firm in her takedown of Djokovic, who earlier this week suggested men should be awarded more prize money because their games attracted more viewers.

But Djokovic has since taken to social media to say the euphoria and adrenalin got the best of him when he made his comments. However, he did not clearly express his opinion on whether men and women should get equal pay.

"Tennis helped me so much in my life and being where I am today, I felt the need to speak about the fairer and better distribution of funds across the board - this was meant for both men and women," he said.

"We all have to fight for what we deserve. This was never meant to be made into a fight between genders and differences in pay, but in the way all players are rewarded for their play and effort."

Williams' earlier comments were strong.

"If I have a daughter who plays tennis and also have a son that plays tennis, I wouldn't say that my son deserves more because he is a man. If they both started at three years old I would say they both deserve the same amount of money," she was quoted as saying in the Guardian.

Her son wouldn't deserve more because he's a man. Her son would deserve more if he generated more revenue -- wouldn't he?

"I have been playing since the age of two and it would be shocking to say my son would deserve more than my daughter. It is irrelevant."

Isn't how well they play tennis entirely relevant?

Would the world #1 female player beat the world #1 male player?

"Novak is entitled to his opinion but if he has a daughter – I think he has a son right now – he should talk to her and tell her how his son deserves more money because he is a boy," she said.

Britain's Andy Murray, a long-time rival of Djokovic, had said the Serbian player's comments were strange and disappointing.

Murray said over the last decade men's tennis had benefited from some high-profile rivalries, but women players were also able to draw strong crowds.

Speaking at the start of the Miami Open, Murray said women deserved the same prize money as men at all combined events.

"At a tournament like this, for example, if Serena is playing on centre court and you have a men's match with [Sergiy] Stakhovsky playing, people are coming to watch Serena," he said.

Well, that's true, which is to say, the world's #1 female player draws stronger crowds than the world's #115 male player, and therefore deserves more.

And what do you know -- Serena Williams does earn more than Stakhovsky.

"The crowds are coming to watch the women as well. The whole thing just doesn't stack up – it changes on a day-to‑day basis depending on the matches you get."

Djokovic made his initial remarks after Indian Wells tournament director Raymond Moore said women tennis players should be on their knees thanking the men for their contribution to the sport.

Moore has since resigned.

World No.115 Stakhovsky has in the past called for men to be paid more than women.

Does it strike anyone that if female tennis players wanted equal pay for work of equal value, they could simply play against the men?

If Williams could beat Djokovic, would there be any question she deserves more prize money?

Note that this is an argument based solely on revenue generated, not on 'labour output'. Women's grand slam tennis matches are shorter (best of 3 versus best of 5) and they do not run as fast or serve the ball as fast as men.

 

[Axulus]

Why do tennis players deseve any money? They money they receive is not out the goodness of anyone's heart, it is the maximum they are able to extract from the revenue stream that comes in from sponsors, broadcasters and ticket sales. If the men's revenue stream is larger, esentially what Williams is saying is that the men should get a pay cut and the non players involved in the system should get a profit boost in order to equalize things.

 

[DBT]

Both deserve the same money, but the money they currently is far too much....as with most sports and entertainments, including celebrity and hero worship, etc.

 

[repoman]

I think that the high salaries to the sports players is part of a sneaky trick to get us to accept insanely high salaries for CEOs. Part of our sinking despotism. Would a "real" socialist be happy that both female and male CEOs make 500 to 1,000 times the salary of an average worker (through backstopped handouts/bailouts from govt from campaign bribery etc...) , instead of maybe a 20% pay gap for female CEOs? I am almost starting to get the intersectional thing, but is rarely economic class with these overpaid ivory tower phonies, mostly it is race, gender etc...

The gender issue of this for people making way more than most of us, does not make me care. Ok, boycott the guy's tournament for more pay. Maybe it will work or maybe it won't. But don't ask me to white knight for a rich woman. You can fuck off. And don't make a law about it, yeah that shows real strength and independence. "I don't need no man, but daddy gubmint!" Fucking cunts!

Part of why men's sports are more exciting, I fear, is that it is probably much more damaging to men's bodies than women's sports are to their bodies. The charge we as sick fucking monkeys get from seeing damage or close calls is inherent and can't be bred out of us easily.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Part of why men's sports are more exciting, I fear, is that it is probably much more damaging to men's bodies than women's sports are to their bodies. The charge we as sick fucking monkeys get from seeing damage or close calls is inherent and can't be bred out of us easily.

That's not fair. Men's sports are more exciting because men are bigger, stronger, faster, and more agile. Therefore, the same game is played at a higher level by men simply by virtue of anatomy and physiology. It's not a knock on women or women athletes.

As for watching sports, there's an argument to be made that it's the most exciting entertainment there is. Nobody knows how it's going to turn out. There's no script and anything can happen (within the boundaries of the game, of course). It's a live drama played out by human beings giving it their all in front of tens of thousands of people, which creates a uniquely charged emotional atmosphere.

 

[bigfield]

Maybe the women should play against the men, instead of in a separate handicap league.

 

[repoman]

That is why men in those sports usually get paid more.

Personally,I rarely watch sports but I like women's tennis a lot (especially when I was a kid and there was no banshee yelling or grunting - that shit is a choice). The guys are so powerful I feel pain just watching them sometimes how they are using their own plyometric strength to pound themselves to dust.

I also like women's volleyball way more than men's, and no it is not how they look. There lack of explosive strength makes it a much more strategic game.

At its worst the lust to see damage or danger can be seen in something like this:

 

[TV and credit cards]

Unequal pay based on gender is a disincentive to enter and excel in that field which will translate into a lack of enthusiasm from supporters which will further erode financial compensation for the talent.

 

[repoman]

Unequal pay based on gender is a disincentive to enter and excel in that field which will translate into a lack of enthusiasm from supporters which will further erode financial compensation for the talent.

and... big daddy gubmint is the solution?

what do you propose? or are you just making an observation?

 

[TV and credit cards]

Unequal pay based on gender is a disincentive to enter and excel in that field which will translate into a lack of enthusiasm from supporters which will further erode financial compensation for the talent.

and... big daddy gubmint is the solution?

what do you propose? or are you just making an observation?

Just making an observation. Do you think it's a fair one?

 

[laughing dog]

Serena Williams' argument is based on the premise that the prize money should be based on the performance on the court (i.e. who wins). On those grounds, the prize money should be equalized. The OP's argument is based on the prize money is on the "performance" in the "stands" (attraction of fans). The two arguments do not share the same underlying principles, so, of course they are not compatible.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Unequal pay based on gender is a disincentive to enter and excel in that field which will translate into a lack of enthusiasm from supporters which will further erode financial compensation for the talent.

So what? The same can be said for men's and women's soccer. The same can be said for lacrosse players vs baseball players. If the majority of the sport's revenue comes from ticket sales and advertising money, then what puts people in the seats should be the basis of compensation.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

September 20, 1973, my brother's 14th birthday, oh how sweet it was to win two dollars from him that night.

"Atta boy, Billie Jean!"

 

[barbos]

I think they should have a tennis match between these two first rackets.

 

[Metaphor]

Serena Williams' argument is based on the premise that the prize money should be based on the performance on the court (i.e. who wins). On those grounds, the prize money should be equalized. The OP's argument is based on the prize money is on the "performance" in the "stands" (attraction of fans). The two arguments do not share the same underlying principles, so, of course they are not compatible.

Except that Williams' performance is not the same as Djokovic's. Were she to play against Djokovic, she would lose in straight sets.

 

[Rhea]

There seem to be two parallel but completely unconnected arguments for pay going on:

Whether men "play harder" or "better" or something , than women
OR
Whether men draw bigger crowds than women

The first seems kind of odd since it doesn't seem to be the reason for very many salary choices in enetertainment
The second was addressed by Williams herself when she pointed out that the women's tourneys sold out before the mens. In addition, viewership tells that tale:

While there are still many more men leading corporate boardrooms around the world, when it comes to tennis women are taking center stage. For the last two U.S. Opens, the women's final scored higher TV ratings than the men's final. Now there's new data by a Nielsen-like ratings company, SMG Insight, that shows the global TV and digital audience for women's tennis rose 22.5% last year compared to 2013. This year those numbers are expected to grow even more.

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Stacey Allaster, Chairman and CEO of the Women's Tennis Association told CNBC, "All the credit goes to the athletes and the tournament investors." She added that social media has helped propel the sport to new heights. "Social media is a massive gift to the WTA. Over 100 million fans worldwide are engaged on social media platforms."

So Williams makes a very good point, no?

 

[thebeave]

Unequal pay based on gender is a disincentive to enter and excel in that field which will translate into a lack of enthusiasm from supporters which will further erode financial compensation for the talent.

So what? The same can be said for men's and women's soccer. The same can be said for lacrosse players vs baseball players. If the majority of the sport's revenue comes from ticket sales and advertising money, then what puts people in the seats should be the basis of compensation.

Yep. Ronda Rousey explains it pretty directly and succintly:



Its the same reason women supermodels get paid more than male supermodels. Women models bring in more money to their advertisers and sponsors.

 

[Rhea]

So then we should be seeing an immediate adjustment to this for women's tennis players and women's soccer players, right?

http://fortune.com/2015/09/09/williams-sisters-tennis-ratings/

After years of lagging the airtime and attention of their male counterparts, women’s sports have had an incredible year—a wave the Williams sisters helped create and are now riding. In July, the Women’s World Cup became the most watched soccer match in U.S. history, with 25.4 million viewers tuning in to watch the U.S. defeat Japan. UFC women’s bantamweight powerhouse Ronda Rousey knocking out Bethe Correia brought in 1.6 million viewers, making it the most viewed program among ad-supported cable sports networks in primetime, according to Fox Sports

So the invisible hand of the market, utterly untainted by any sexism, will result in some immediate prize money increases and pay raises, of course.

- - - Updated - - -

So then we should be seeing an immediate adjustment to this for women's tennis players and women's soccer players, right?

http://fortune.com/2015/09/09/williams-sisters-tennis-ratings/

After years of lagging the airtime and attention of their male counterparts, women’s sports have had an incredible year—a wave the Williams sisters helped create and are now riding. In July, the Women’s World Cup became the most watched soccer match in U.S. history, with 25.4 million viewers tuning in to watch the U.S. defeat Japan. UFC women’s bantamweight powerhouse Ronda Rousey knocking out Bethe Correia brought in 1.6 million viewers, making it the most viewed program among ad-supported cable sports networks in primetime, according to Fox Sports

So the invisible hand of the market, utterly untainted by any sexism, will result in some immediate prize money increases and pay raises, of course.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So what? The same can be said for men's and women's soccer. The same can be said for lacrosse players vs baseball players. If the majority of the sport's revenue comes from ticket sales and advertising money, then what puts people in the seats should be the basis of compensation.

Yep. Ronda Rousey explains it pretty directly and succintly:



Its the same reason women supermodels get paid more than male supermodels. Women models bring in more money to their advertisers and sponsors.

Do women tennis players generate less revenue? Tennis would seem to be one of the rare exceptions where the female sport counterpart is batting close to the same magnitude for revenue production.

The only avenue I think that could be talked about would be the game length. Men play 5 sets, women 3 sets.

 

[laughing dog]

Except that Williams' performance is not the same as Djokovic's...

Of course it was. She won her tournament.