Do minds exist?

[none]

prove it, prove you experience a mind, the mind, and minds...
that is all I've been asking for 20+ pages...

What would constitute proof?

We know the wind by seeing the effects.

We know minds by seeing their effects as well.

We can look at something like Darwin's work on natural evolution.

Clearly the work of a mind.

moving molecules is wind, what is a mind, the mind, and minds?
I'm pretty sure proof would be an an example, something empirical, not a claim.

 

[untermensche]

What would constitute proof?

We know the wind by seeing the effects.

We know minds by seeing their effects as well.

We can look at something like Darwin's work on natural evolution.

Clearly the work of a mind.

moving molecules is wind, what is a mind, the mind, and minds?
I'm pretty sure proof would be an an example, something empirical, not a claim.

You don't think "Origin of Species" is empirical evidence?

 

[untermensche]

Concepts have an existence of their own.

We are not discussing "reality". Whatever that conversation could be and whoever thinks qualified to do it.

We are discussing a concept; Experiencing.

We are stuck with words and concepts. That is all we have. We can't transmit "reality" to each other over the internet.

This is what we are discussing:

That is your side of it.

For me there can be no greater evidence than the evidence of my mind. I need no convincing and cannot be persuaded that what I know best is known better by somebody else.

But the evidence of your mind is only evidence of itself. Qualia is itself.

Yes, the mind is evidence of the mind.

But the mind is that which experiences the things experienced.

The mind experiences the things the brain creates for it to experience. The visual experiences, the auditory experiences, the emotions and sensations and memories and all the rest.

So the brain is creating both the mind and the "objects" experienced by the mind.

The division between that which experiences and the things experienced is created by the brain.

 

[none]

moving molecules is wind, what is a mind, the mind, and minds?
I'm pretty sure proof would be an an example, something empirical, not a claim.

You don't think "Origin of Species" is empirical evidence?

no it's a book.
empirical evidence is what supports the opinion in it, some of which has been debunked due to empirical evidence, basically it is unlike your opinion which has been so far unsupported.

 

[untermensche]

You don't think "Origin of Species" is empirical evidence?

no it's a book.
empirical evidence is what supports the opinion in it, some of which has been debunked due to empirical evidence, basically it is unlike your opinion which has been so far unsupported.

It is a work of a mind.

That is why nobody but one person with one mind could write it.

If it was just written by brains everybody could have written it since all brains are basically the same thing constructed by basically the same genes.

 

[none]

no it's a book.
empirical evidence is what supports the opinion in it, some of which has been debunked due to empirical evidence, basically it is unlike your opinion which has been so far unsupported.

It is a work of a mind.

more empty claims.., where is the empirical evidence to support your claims?

That is why nobody but one person with one mind could write it.

bold claim, care to show the empirical evidence to support it?

If it was just written by brains everybody could have written it since all brains are basically the same thing constructed by basically the same genes.

most anybody can observe and write those observations down.

 

[untermensche]

It is a work of a mind.

more empty claims.., where is the empirical evidence to support your claims?

You need to make an argument. Not just empty claims of your own.

Why is a book not evidence of a mind?

It is a unique expression that is organized, not random, that can't be duplicated by somebody else.

It is most definitely more than evidence of a brain which everybody has.

Before you whine about wanting evidence again, you have to define what evidence of a mind would look like.

Otherwise you are only playing a game.

You deny the experience your own mind, which is a lie, then you deny that products of minds are evidence of minds.

Demonstrate you are not just a child playing a game.

What would constitute evidence of a mind?

 

[Juma]

Why is a book not evidence of a mind?

Come on!
It is too simple.
Because a book is just pages with text. Could be easily computergenerated.

Clearly you meant something else.

 

[untermensche]

Why is a book not evidence of a mind?

Come on!
It is too simple.
Because a book is just pages with text. Could be easily computergenerated.

Clearly you meant something else.

A computer is evidence of human minds and an extension of the human mind.

No matter what that computer does it is only a reflection of a human mind, never a mind in itself.

And there is no computer that can write books that humans want to read on it's own.

 

[fromderinside]

Look out Cliff.

No I mean cliff.

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one small step for a man

one ..... .... ... .......!

Now that's an argument.

Hey, Schrodinger's Outlaw. Just what is the configuration of your computer?

 

[rousseau]

So Uttermensche's mind is the sum total of his sensory experience and working memory content at any given moment.

 

[untermensche]

So Uttermensche's mind is the sum total of his sensory experience and working memory content at any given moment.

Whatever it is.

It is.

But it is that which is aware of sensory information and memories, not the sum total of it.

 

[rousseau]

So Uttermensche's mind is the sum total of his sensory experience and working memory content at any given moment.

Whatever it is.

It is.

But it is that which is aware of sensory information and memories, not the sum total of it.

What is the difference between having a sensory experience and being aware of a sensory experience?

Isn't the awareness of a sensory experience just having the experience?

This is good, you're making me think, thanks.

 

[untermensche]

Whatever it is.

It is.

But it is that which is aware of sensory information and memories, not the sum total of it.

What is the difference between having a sensory experience and being aware of a sensory experience?

There is blue, the thing in itself, and there is the awareness of blue.

They are not the same thing.

To be aware is the same as to experience.

It requires BOTH that which is aware AND the things it is aware of.

The mind is that which is aware. That which sees the world as something coherent.

 

[none]

more empty claims.., where is the empirical evidence to support your claims?

You need to make an argument. Not just empty claims of your own.

Why is a book not evidence of a mind?

It is a unique expression that is organized, not random, that can't be duplicated by somebody else.

It is most definitely more than evidence of a brain which everybody has.

Before you whine about wanting evidence again, you have to define what evidence of a mind would look like.

Otherwise you are only playing a game.

You deny the experience your own mind, which is a lie, then you deny that products of minds are evidence of minds.

Demonstrate you are not just a child playing a game.

What would constitute evidence of a mind?

okay, here is my argument.
the mind, a mind, and minds are words that have no set definition.
what you are describing is fictional when you reference the mind, a mind, and minds.
my evidence is the entirety of this thread if you want to investigate further.

 

[untermensche]

okay, here is my argument.
the mind, a mind, and minds are words that have no set definition.

This is a claim not an argument.

 

[none]

okay, here is my argument.
the mind, a mind, and minds are words that have no set definition.

This is a claim not an argument.

fuck, this is fucking ridiculous.
it's like I am talking to a broken java script, you are so life like untermensche.. its as if you are almost a person.
play more games, it is your wasted life.
at some point I need to turn off the part where I care about you.

 

[untermensche]

This is a claim not an argument.

fuck, this is fucking ridiculous.
it's like I am talking to a broken java script, you are so life like untermensche.. its as if you are almost a person.
play more games, it is your wasted life.
at some point I need to turn off the part where I care about you.

I can't help it that your ideas are ridiculous and can't be supported by argument.

Every thought in your head is evidence of a mind.

There is no argument that can deny this.

The only thing debatable is what exactly a mind is.

 

[none]

fuck, this is fucking ridiculous.
it's like I am talking to a broken java script, you are so life like untermensche.. its as if you are almost a person.
play more games, it is your wasted life.
at some point I need to turn off the part where I care about you.

I can't help it that your ideas are ridiculous and can't be supported by argument.

Every thought in your head is evidence of a mind.

There is no argument that can deny this.

The only thing debatable is what exactly a mind is.

dude, you are just wasting your time.
you make shit up
you whine and cry about not explaining what the fuck you ,make up
then you whine when challenged.
I don't need the abuse
you need to get a grip and some backbone

 

[untermensche]

I can't help it that your ideas are ridiculous and can't be supported by argument.

Every thought in your head is evidence of a mind.

There is no argument that can deny this.

The only thing debatable is what exactly a mind is.

dude, you are just wasting your time.
you make shit up
you whine and cry about not explaining what the fuck you ,make up
then you whine when challenged.
I don't need the abuse
you need to get a grip and some backbone

The fact that you actually think you can lecture me is amusing.

Your ideas suck.

But the good news is anybody can grow and their mind can expand, as long as they allow it.