Doctors 'fighting for life' of Russia's opposition leader Navalny after alleged poisoning

[KeepTalking]

What you are suggesting, that there are individuals or groups within Russia that keep poisoning opposition figures and never get caught, sometimes using nerve agents that are accessible only to government agencies. At best, this means that even if Putin didn't give an order, he is deliberately looking the other way and letting them kill whomever they wish.

I am suggesting that Putin got such a strong reputation that he would be blamed no matter what.

I know, right. It sure is odd how when you go around having your opposition murdered, and the next person who opposes you is the victim of an apparent murder plot, people think you are responsible. What would ever give them that idea?

 

[barbos]

Well, If I was a prominent opposition leader I would have kept in mind that CIA could be after me as well as Putin.
The guy is in Germany now, lets see what German doctors think.

 

[ZiprHead]

Navalny poisoned: German doctors say tests show toxin in Russian activist's body

German doctors treating Alexei Navalny said Monday that their findings indicate the Russian opposition activist was poisoned with a substance that can damage the nervous system before falling into a coma last week.

Berlin's Charité hospital said in a statement that Navalny had been intoxicated with a type of substance called a cholinesterase inhibitor, although they haven't determined the specific substance.

The doctors have treated Navalny with the antidote atropine. He is still in a coma after becoming sick in Russia last week and being rushed to Germany for treatment. His condition is serious although "there is currently no acute danger to his life," the statement said.

Long-term effects of the substance, especially on the his nervous system can't be ruled out, it said.

"The suspicion is that Mr. Navalny was poisoned given that unfortunately recent Russian history has had several such suspected cases," German Chancellor Angela Merkel's chief spokesman, Steffen Seibert, told journalists Monday. "Because one can say with near certainty that it was a poisoning attack, protection is necessary," Seibert added.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, returning to Russia in any foreseeable future is impossible now for him.
wikipedia suggests it could be some Alzheimer drug, insecticide or chemical weapon.

 

[KeepTalking]

Well, If I was a prominent opposition leader I would have kept in mind that CIA could be after me as well as Putin.

You seem to have a very high opinion of the CIA's ability to operate with impunity in Russia. Accepting that as the case for the sake of argument, it seems to be your contention that the CIA is the most likely suspect because Putin already has a reputation as a murderous autocrat, so he doesn't need to murder any more of his opposition, but the CIA would want to murder Putin's opposition in order to make him look like more of murderous autocrat. Seems a bit convoluted, but whatever works for you. I will stick with the simpler explanation.

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, If I was a prominent opposition leader I would have kept in mind that CIA could be after me as well as Putin.

You seem to have a very high opinion of the CIA's ability to operate with impunity in Russia. Accepting that as the case for the sake of argument, it seems to be your contention that the CIA is the most likely suspect because Putin already has a reputation as a murderous autocrat, so he doesn't need to murder any more of his opposition, but the CIA would want to murder Putin's opposition in order to make him look like more of murderous autocrat. Seems a bit convoluted, but whatever works for you. I will stick with the simpler explanation.

Like, everyone and their brother and their brother's dog knows Putin is a murderous autocrat. He LIKES being known as a murderous autocrat because for every one he murders, another ten, hundred, thousand never even oppose him in the first place. If the CIA reinforce that, his goals are furthered. If the CIA wanted to attack Putin effectively, they would protect rather than murder his opposition (or in the case of sock puppeteering, I suppose, expose them and then protect them from Putin's cleanup attempts).

I'm with you though. I'm going to stick with the theory that makes sense and doesn't add needless complications: that Putin is doing the thing Putin is known for doing.

 

[barbos]

Germans claim Novichok

 

[Copernicus]

Germans claim Novichok

Exactly, and that sends the message that this poisoning was almost certainly sanctioned by Putin. No one with access to that tightly guarded substance would dare attempt to murder such a high level opposition figure without permission from the highest level of the government. Navalny was essentially untouchable heretofore, but a lot of things are in the news now. Belarus. The US election. COVID-19. Racial tensions. Navalny was making political hay of the protests going on in Siberia at the time he was poisoned. This is an opportune time to get rid of an annoyance and remind his enemies that he will ruthlessly suppress anyone who threatens his rule. The news made a predictably minor blip in the US press. Nothing much to hurt Putin, who has just had himself virtually crowned as President for Life.

 

[barbos]

Germans claim Novichok

Exactly, and that sends the message that this poisoning was almost certainly sanctioned by Putin. No one with access to that tightly guarded substance would dare attempt to murder such a high level opposition figure without permission from the highest level of the government. Navalny was essentially untouchable heretofore, but a lot of things are in the news now. Belarus. The US election. COVID-19. Racial tensions. Navalny was making political hay of the protests going on in Siberia Far East at the time he was poisoned. This is an opportune time to get rid of an annoyance and remind his enemies that he will ruthlessly suppress anyone who threatens his rule. The news made a predictably minor blip in the US press. Nothing much to hurt Putin, who has just had himself virtually crowned as President for Life.

Cool theory, bro. but it does not take into account couple of things:
1. Nord Stream 2, what happens to it now?
2. Novichok is not as unaccessible as you think. It was implicated in some strictly business related poisoning.
3. You greatly overestimate popularity of Navalny prior to poisoning.

Now a better theory:
CIA/US NG lobby look at Belarus, then look at Russia specifically at protests in Far East and ask themselves - what if we poison Navalny and blame it on Putin, will we get Belarus 2.0?

 

[Copernicus]

Germans claim Novichok

Exactly, and that sends the message that this poisoning was almost certainly sanctioned by Putin. No one with access to that tightly guarded substance would dare attempt to murder such a high level opposition figure without permission from the highest level of the government. Navalny was essentially untouchable heretofore, but a lot of things are in the news now. Belarus. The US election. COVID-19. Racial tensions. Navalny was making political hay of the protests going on in Siberia Far East at the time he was poisoned. This is an opportune time to get rid of an annoyance and remind his enemies that he will ruthlessly suppress anyone who threatens his rule. The news made a predictably minor blip in the US press. Nothing much to hurt Putin, who has just had himself virtually crowned as President for Life.

Cool theory, bro. but it does not take into account couple of things:
1. Nord Stream 2, what happens to it now?
2. Novichok is not as unaccessible as you think. It was implicated in some strictly business related poisoning.
3. You greatly overestimate popularity of Navalny prior to poisoning.

Now a better theory:
CIA/US NG lobby look at Belarus, then look at Russia specifically at protests in Far East and ask themselves - what if we poison Navalny and blame it on Putin, will we get Belarus 2.0?

What is the distinction you are making between Siberia and the Far East? Navalny was in Siberia (Tomsk) when he was poisoned. His team was conducting an investigation of corruption in Siberia, which is also consider the "Far East" in Russia, right?

1. Nord Stream 2 will likely continue despite US opposition to it. The Russian government is heavily invested in Nord Stream 2, so that is one reason why Putin may have wanted to kill Navalny, but not the only reason. Putin is corrupt, and Navalny exposed corruption.
2. What makes you think that the business-related poisoning had nothing to do with Russian politics? It can be used to kill people for all kinds of reasons. That doesn't mean that it is as accessible as you think. It is a powerful nerve agent produced by the Russian government as an assassination tool, because it is hard to detect. That's why it is used in assassinations that the government has an interest in.
3. I said nothing about Navalny's popularity, which you may be underestimating. He does seem to have a following. Otherwise, he wouldn't be worth it for Putin to bother assassinating him. He exposed corruption, so that contributed to his popularity.

Beyond that, your paranoid conspiracy theory about the CIA is more likely just another attempt by Russian propagandists to blame everything that happens in Russia on foreigners and spies. It was like that back in the heyday of the Soviet Union, and Putin is nothing if not a great admirer of the empire that gave birth to his career in the KGB.

 

[barbos]

Cool theory, bro. but it does not take into account couple of things:
1. Nord Stream 2, what happens to it now?
2. Novichok is not as unaccessible as you think. It was implicated in some strictly business related poisoning.
3. You greatly overestimate popularity of Navalny prior to poisoning.

Now a better theory:
CIA/US NG lobby look at Belarus, then look at Russia specifically at protests in Far East and ask themselves - what if we poison Navalny and blame it on Putin, will we get Belarus 2.0?

What is the distinction you are making between Siberia and the Far East? Navalny was in Siberia (Tomsk) when he was poisoned. His team was conducting an investigation of corruption in Siberia, which is also consider the "Far East" in Russia, right?

1. Nord Stream 2 will likely continue despite US opposition to it. The Russian government is heavily invested in Nord Stream 2, so that is one reason why Putin may have wanted to kill Navalny, but not the only reason. Putin is corrupt, and Navalny exposed corruption.
2. What makes you think that the business-related poisoning had nothing to do with Russian politics? It can be used to kill people for all kinds of reasons. That doesn't mean that it is as accessible as you think. It is a powerful nerve agent produced by the Russian government as an assassination tool, because it is hard to detect. That's why it is used in assassinations that the government has an interest in.
3. I said nothing about Navalny's popularity, which you may be underestimating. He does seem to have a following. Otherwise, he wouldn't be worth it for Putin to bother assassinating him. He exposed corruption, so that contributed to his popularity.

It's almost you are intentionally wrong about everything.

Beyond that, your paranoid conspiracy theory about the CIA is more likely just another attempt by Russian propagandists to blame everything that happens in Russia on foreigners and spies. It was like that back in the heyday of the Soviet Union, and Putin is nothing if not a great admirer of the empire that gave birth to his career in the KGB.

My paranoia is well founded in facts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert):

It was subsequently established that neither the knife or the blister packs showed Kelly's fingerprints on their surfaces.

 

[Copernicus]

It's almost you are intentionally wrong about everything.

And it is quite as if you can't provide a coherent response to anything I wrote. You especially did not explain the difference you were making between "Far East" and "Siberia". I'm curious, because you ought to know more about Russian geography than I do. You keep saying that Putin would have to have been stupid to try to kill Navalny, so you are calling him stupid unless your convoluted conspiracy that involves the CIA is as stupid as it sounds. You are Russian and cynical, so you know how to read between the lines of government propaganda.

It's good to know that Navalny will apparently survive this attempted murder, but it isn't known how much permanent damage his body and mind have suffered. He will likely not be going back to Russia. Even if he and other poisoning victims (like the Skripals) did not die, they still stand as object lessons to those who would dare to oppose Putin's tyranny. Donald Trump must be really envious that Putin can get away with it. His followers would defend him just as strongly as Putin's, if he could pull it off.

 

[barbos]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Far_East

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...g-spokesman-says-n1237413?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma

Fierce Kremlin critic and opposition leader Alexei Navalny is in a coma as doctors fight for his life after he was poisoned Thursday morning, his spokesperson said.

The 44-year-old foe of Russia’s President Vladimir Putin felt unwell on a flight back to Moscow from Tomsk, a city in Siberia, Kira Yarmysh said on Twitter.

“The plane made an emergency landing in Omsk. Alexei has a toxic poisoning,” Yarmysh tweeted.

Navalny is said to be unconscious and was placed on a ventilator in an intensive care unit.

Yarmysh did not say who she believed may have poisoned Navalny, but said police had been called to the hospital.

The politician is in a grave but stable condition, hospital representative Anatoly Kalinichenko, deputy chief physician at the Omsk Emergency Hospital No. 1., said in a video shared by Yarmysh on Twitter.

I hereby name Vladimir Putin as Novochok Putin, the poisoner. As usual, it doesn't seem to bother Trump in the least.

 

[KeepTalking]

It's almost you are intentionally wrong about everything.

Just not in any way that you can demonstrate, as usual. "Barbos declares it wrong, therefor it must be so", is not a thing anyone on this board will ever agree with.

Beyond that, your paranoid conspiracy theory about the CIA is more likely just another attempt by Russian propagandists to blame everything that happens in Russia on foreigners and spies. It was like that back in the heyday of the Soviet Union, and Putin is nothing if not a great admirer of the empire that gave birth to his career in the KGB.

My paranoia is well founded in facts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert):

It was subsequently established that neither the knife or the blister packs showed Kelly's fingerprints on their surfaces.

How do you imagine this in any way relates to the current topic of discussion?

 

[KeepTalking]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Far_East

Although traditionally considered part of Siberia, the Russian Far East is categorized separately from Siberia in Russian regional schemes (and previously during the Soviet era when it was called the Soviet Far East).

How very Russian Soviet of you.

 

[barbos]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Far_East

Although traditionally considered part of Siberia, the Russian Far East is categorized separately from Siberia in Russian regional schemes (and previously during the Soviet era when it was called the Soviet Far East).

How very Russian Soviet of you.

I did not write that wikipedia article.
Calling Far East Siberia is like Calling Oregon Midwest.

 

[KeepTalking]

How very Russian Soviet of you.

I did not write that wikipedia article.

You linked to it with no context, though.

Calling Far East Siberia is like Calling Oregon Midwest.

Oregon was never traditionally considered part of the Midwest, so no it isn't remotely the same.

 

[barbos]

You linked to it with no context, though.

Calling Far East Siberia is like Calling Oregon Midwest.

Oregon was never traditionally considered part of the Midwest, so no it isn't remotely the same.

Why are we talking about it? Who the fuck are you to tell me about is called what in Russia?

 

[KeepTalking]

You linked to it with no context, though.

Calling Far East Siberia is like Calling Oregon Midwest.

Oregon was never traditionally considered part of the Midwest, so no it isn't remotely the same.

Why are we talking about it?

You tell me, you are the one who took Copernicus to task for saying 'Siberia' when you felt he should have use the term 'Far East'.

Who the fuck are you to tell me about is called what in Russia?

I am the guy who actually read the wiki link you provided with no context, and noted that it said:

Although traditionally considered part of Siberia, the Russian Far East is categorized separately from Siberia in Russian regional schemes

Now, tell me again how Oregon was traditionally considered part of the American Midwest.