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Does Trump Kill The Pardon? Pardon 2.0 in development?

J

Jimmy Higgins

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So, with the list floating around, does Trump kill the pardon? Again, American democracy is generally based on a bunch of traditions, not laws, that help keep our representative democracy functioning.

Trump has fucked just about every part of our Democracy and it is possible he might just about destroy the Pardon. As it stands, Pardons are generally not testing at SCOTUS, but suppose Trump hands out dozens of blanket pardons that don't actually reference specific acts, crimes, allegations, or convictions.

The act of a Pardon is one of the odd King like powers the Founding Fathers provided the President. But certainly, the Founding Fathers did not intend any power or privilege of the President to be used like that of a King. President Ford pardoned former President Nixon. That didn't go over well, but it wasn't reversed. The pardon power seems more of a scalpel than a grid fire power. The question is, what if President Ford pardoned everyone regarding Watergate. But even then, that would apply to specific acts under a certain venue.

Is it possible that Trump provides blanket pardons for unlimited number of possible illegal actions, and that is taken to the Supreme Court. Of course, the first question would be become... who even has standing to take it to court. If a pardon is vague and doesn't refer to a crime, who has standing?

So clearly, there are notable technical issues. Maybe, just maybe Trump will surpri...

... no... he won't. Get ready for a Constitutional Crisis everyone as America will soon ask itself, "Are there limits to Presidential Pardons?"
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
So, with the list floating around, does Trump kill the pardon?
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The least of our worries.
I'm far more concerned with the subjugation of the DOJ to the political concerns of the White House, the pillaging of the Treasury, the militarization of CBP and ICE... and about a thousand other perversions wrought upon our democracy but the career criminal mob boss.
 
I would think the DOJ would have standing as these pardons would inhibit bringing justice. The defense would likely be the people who received blanket pardons. That is what I hope at least.

Last few years I thought the Pardon power should be amended to not cover anyone in a President's administration, or the previous President and their administration. That would have covered most of the abuses we had seen before (Ford/Nixon, Bush) but with Trump's pardons for sale I'm thinking maybe we need to eliminate it completely.
 
marc said:
I would think the DOJ would have standing as these pardons would inhibit bringing justice. The defense would likely be the people who received blanket pardons. That is what I hope at least.

Last few years I thought the Pardon power should be amended to not cover anyone in a President's administration, or the previous President and their administration. That would have covered most of the abuses we had seen before (Ford/Nixon, Bush) but with Trump's pardons for sale I'm thinking maybe we need to eliminate it completely.
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Or give the pardon power to Congress and only let the Pres submit nominations.
 
Since the pardon power is in the Constitution, it would require a constitutional amendment to end it. So, I am not going to get concerned about working to eliminate the pardon power.
 
laughing dog said:
Since the pardon power is in the Constitution, it would require a constitutional amendment to end it. So, I am not going to get concerned about working to eliminate the pardon power.
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The electoral college is also in the constitution... but my State just did an end-run but committing its electors to the winner of the National popular vote.
Not sure if something similar is possible...
 
Elixir said:
laughing dog said:
Since the pardon power is in the Constitution, it would require a constitutional amendment to end it. So, I am not going to get concerned about working to eliminate the pardon power.
Click to expand...

The electoral college is also in the constitution... but my State just did an end-run but committing its electors to the winner of the National popular vote.
Not sure if something similar is possible...
Click to expand...

Dayum!

What state is that?

Last I heard no state had committed their EC delegates to a democracy until enough states had done so to make it work.

What state are you from?

Tom
 
Changing government protocols and functions would be like changing police investigation procedures because Charles Manson existed. Hopefully Trump will be seen as one horrible but non-malignant clot of pus and infection that was once lodged in the national colon.
 
Looks like Trump didn't go super-crazy with the pardons, at least not regarding family or anything too broad.
 
Elixir said:
marc said:
I would think the DOJ would have standing as these pardons would inhibit bringing justice. The defense would likely be the people who received blanket pardons. That is what I hope at least.

Last few years I thought the Pardon power should be amended to not cover anyone in a President's administration, or the previous President and their administration. That would have covered most of the abuses we had seen before (Ford/Nixon, Bush) but with Trump's pardons for sale I'm thinking maybe we need to eliminate it completely.
Click to expand...

Or give the pardon power to Congress and only let the Pres submit nominations.
Click to expand...

Or let one congressional chamber have veto power with a supermajority.
 
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