DrZoidberg: does this Swedish news article say that a man was convicted of self defense murder?

[repoman]

Trying to get a handle on this:

http://www.friatider.se/tingsr-tten-rsvarligt-dra-kniv-mot-r-nare-som-riktar-pistol-mot-ditt-huvud-medan-kumpanen-skriker

 

[Jayjay]

It says he was convicted of murder, though he claimed self-defense. There is no such thing as "self defense murder".

 

[whichphilosophy]

Murder by definition is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
Manslaughter is the killing of another without premeditation (malice aforethought) in such circumstances that do not amount to murder

The first paragraph as translated states

AG & right. A 19-year-old swedish sentenced to two years in prison for manslaughter after a knife against a man from Iraq together with a henchman tried to Gun rob him in the Stockholm suburb of Rinkeby. Robber continued namely attack, damaged on the knife and died. END OF QUOTE

The court also said The right also stated that this been in a self-defense situation but that he was not entitled to use deadly force to defend themselves.

The question is

Could the person have acted in a reasonable manner to still defend himself given the nature of the attack.

Having faced such situations there is little time to weigh the danger but to act in accordance to the moment but not to kill.

Normally in the UK (I am sure similar in Sweden) the courts would ask if he acted in the manner a 'reasonable person of average intelligence' would act.

I don't read Swedish and the translation gets lost a bit but perhaps he can appeal against the 2 year sentence.

 

[barbos]

did you use google-translate?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Freetranslation.com so like google there would be a bit of Pidgin English here and there

 

[repoman]

I wonder if it is similar in spirit to this:

 

[Juma]

Friatider isnt a reliable source

 

[whichphilosophy]

Friatider isnt a reliable source

The news report however states manslaughter and a 2 year sentence. Maybe this may go for appeal.

Perhaps a more detailed (even better) report would be useful, but the papers tend to purchase and copy stock articles from each other.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I wonder if it is similar in spirit to this:

View attachment 7106

If a burglar falls through a faulty roof he can also sue the owner for his injuries.
If a taxi drives a prostitute to a client and he knows about it, then she doesn't pay the fare, the court will reject his case as it is an illegal contract.
When cooking she could theoretically be chopping onions with an illegal weapon if she waves her hands at an intruder.

 

[Juma]

Friatider isnt a reliable source

The news report however states manslaughter and a 2 year sentence. Maybe this may go for appeal.

Perhaps a more detailed (even better) report would be useful, but the papers tend to purchase and copy stock articles from each other.

But this seems to be the type of article that friatider specialises in...

 

[whichphilosophy]

The news report however states manslaughter and a 2 year sentence. Maybe this may go for appeal.

Perhaps a more detailed (even better) report would be useful, but the papers tend to purchase and copy stock articles from each other.

But this seems to be the type of article that friatider specialises in...

Maybe there are other reports that can be downloaded.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder if it is similar in spirit to this:

View attachment 7106

Sounds right. She was under no threat at the time.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I wonder if it is similar in spirit to this:

View attachment 7106

Sounds right. She was under no threat at the time.

She most likely perceived there was a threat. They were trying to break into her garden shed and she was by herself with a baby asleep upstairs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sounds right. She was under no threat at the time.

She most likely perceived there was a threat. They were trying to break into her garden shed and she was by herself with a baby asleep upstairs.

She wasn't in the garden shed.

 

[Derec]

AG & right. A 19-year-old swedish sentenced to two years in prison for manslaughter after a knife against a man from Iraq together with a henchman tried to Gun rob him in the Stockholm suburb of Rinkeby. Robber continued namely attack, damaged on the knife and died. END OF QUOTE

So did the fact that the attacker/robber was an Iraqi and thus very likely member of the special minority group "Muslim" play a role in his conviction? I mean, Sweden has already shown willingness to kick out Swedes out of public housing to make room for Muslim migrants.

- - - Updated - - -

She wasn't in the garden shed.

That doesn't justify the burglary. If she got a warning, what did the perps get? Probably nothing.

 

[fromderinside]

That doesn't justify the burglary. If she got a warning, what did the perps get? Probably nothing.

I believe they got fingerprints. However they messed up that task. So .... Portland police put the rape kits in a warehouse then lost the key to the warehouse or something like that.

 

[ronburgundy]

>A 19 year old Swedish gets sentenced to 2 years in prison for manslaughter after brandishing a knife again a man from Iraq who in collusion with another accomplice tried to arm him with a gun in the Stockholm suburb Rinkeby. The robber continued his assault and injured himself on the knife and died. ''the victim should in the sit, when the gun was presented, have used the knife against the robber in a less lethal way then pointing it against the robbers more vital parts'' the judgement says.

The source is claiming a direct quote from the judgment, which certainly sound as though the court accepts that this man was attacked by 2 men pointing a gun at him, and that he merely pointed the knife at one of the robbers, who then moved toward the man an impaled himself on the knife.
The court seems to be saying that even with all these facts, the victim is guilty of manslaughter because he should have actively avoided the knife going into the man's heart and tried a less deadly use of the knife as the robber was about to pounce on him.

Apparently it is illegal to even carry a knife for self-defense purposes in Sweden, so that contributes to his culpability, but it seems absurd to say that it was his duty to make sure that the robber didn't do something stupid like impale himself on the Swede's knife. The second a gun is being used in a crime (whether real or not) that is a death threat, so the victim should be able to use lethal force, regardless of whether other options exist.

 

[Juma]

But this seems to be the type of article that friatider specialises in...

Maybe there are other reports that can be downloaded.

That is exactly what Donald Trump would have said.
Until you have found better reports we just dont know.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Maybe there are other reports that can be downloaded.

That is exactly what Donald Trump would have said.
Until you have found better reports we just dont know.

You mentioned you don't trust the source. However if the man was convicted for manslaughter, the press do not always get the details correct. The only other reference I saw was 4chan.com which is completely off the wall at times.

His defence is that he acted in response to what he perceived as a threat, or there were also circumstances where the man was killed accidently. The prosecutor would argue that he acted with too much force which was not proportional to the level of threat or perceived level of threat. This is something that can go back and forth through appeals.

 

[whichphilosophy]

She most likely perceived there was a threat. They were trying to break into her garden shed and she was by herself with a baby asleep upstairs.

She wasn't in the garden shed.

It doesn't matter. That's can still be close enough if it is just within a second or two away. I am not sure how the courts will see this, but generally it is not depending on the actual threat that was present but the circumstances wherein she perceived the level of threat.

In different countries it varies.