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DUTERTE (PRESIDENT OF PHILIPPINES WAR ON DRUGS

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whichphilosophy

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400 suspects killed in one month and the number is rising. There are quite a few articles flapping in Asia at the moment regarding the Offensive against drugs by President Duterte who recently won a mandate to eradicate the illegal drug industry.

This should be interesting to discuss. Here is the Article in full. Recently Duterte publically told the Catholic Church not to FXXXK with him over its stance on opposing birth control

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/philippine-police-kill-six-supporters-mayor-over-drugs-091832951.html


Philippine police kill six supporters of mayor over drugs

Police Wednesday shot dead six supporters of a Philippine mayor days after President Rodrigo Duterte threatened to have him "shot on sight" for protecting his allegedly drug-dealing son.
Hundreds of people have died since Duterte won a landslide election on a pledge to wipe out lawlessness by killing tens of thousands of criminals.
A gunfight broke out between law enforcers and supporters of mayor Rolando Espinosa at dawn on Wednesday outside his property in the central town of Albuera on Leyte island, police said.
"The incident this morning is connected to the current investigation pertaining to the involvement of the mayor and his son in the illegal drugs trade," national police spokesman Dionaldo Carlos told reporters.

He said six gunmen were killed while police recovered 17 guns and several grenades.
On Monday Duterte gave Espinosa and his son 24 hours to surrender after police arrested five of the mayor's bodyguards and employees in a drug sting operation.

"Otherwise, an order of 'shoot on sight' will be given if they resist and endanger the lives of arresting police officers," presidential spokesman Ernesto Abella said on television.
The mayor surrendered to police on Tuesday. The son is at large.

The mayor "surrendered to me... (following) orders of the president for him to be shot on sight if he resists," said national police chief Ronald de la Rosa.
Police claim to have killed more than 400 suspected drug dealers in the month since Duterte took office, but rights groups fear the total could be far higher as vigilantes have joined the spree.

Photos of one vigilante's victims being cradled by his weeping girlfriend at a busy Manila intersection last week have gone viral, helping raise awareness of the rising body count that has shocked the world.

The victim, pedicab driver Michael Siaron, was laid to rest at a public cemetery in Manila on Wednesday in a low-key funeral attended by his sobbing girlfriend and several dozen relatives.
Hundreds of anti-narcotics and human rights groups from around the world called Tuesday for the United Nations to condemn Duterte's policy.
Police chief de la Rosa said Mayor Espinosa had been listed in police records as a "drug protector" whose son controlled the narcotics trade in the Albuera region.

"If you're listening now Kerwin, your father has already surrendered so you should follow your father," de la Rosa said in a bizarre live news conference with Espinosa.
"If you don't surrender you will die, so better surrender because your life is really in danger."
The mayor was the second high-profile drug suspect to turn himself in after being accused by Duterte of drugs-related crimes.

Last month, also on national television, Duterte told a businessman at a meeting he would "finish you off" unless he stopped dealing in drugs. The businessman denied the allegations.
Police said more than 100,000 other people have also surrendered to the local authorities and pledged to stop using illegal drugs.
 
It is an insane situation.

One of the ways in which the government maintains peace among millions of people--each of whom a strangers to most others--is by maintaining a monopoly on the lawful use of violence. Vigilantism is a serious threat to social stability as it creates chaos.
 
bigfield said:
It is an insane situation.

One of the ways in which the government maintains peace among millions of people--each of whom a strangers to most others--is by maintaining a monopoly on the lawful use of violence. Vigilantism is a serious threat to social stability as it creates chaos.
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The infrastructure by way of roads is undeveloped. It's new light transit rail systems are overcrowded even outside the rush hour.
Vigilantism is unlawful but no one is enforcing sentencing on extra-judicial killings. It's laws are modeled on the US system but during trials the judge asks the questions to the accused and the witnesses.
A few years ago there were a couple of shoot outs between different police departments and one chief died while playing Russian roulette. The police are no longer permitted to fire guns in the air on New Year's Day.

The latest military coup a few years ago was quite civilized. A group of soldiers led by a junior officer led a 'coup attempt' by taking over a hotel in Manila but no one took it seriously. The hotel was surrounded yet the guests still checked in and out and it was business as usual. One day the coup members just disappeared. It is believed this was done with the help of the army and some other former coup leaders have safe houses in different army compounds.

Generally if a person has no police record, and owns a business, it is easy to get a gun after some shooting lessons from the police. Machine guns are restricted however. Most security guards at shops and malls will have a pistol. In the banks the will also carry a sub machine gun. A person with a gun can easily get a licence to carry but this is not permitted during election periods to avoid shoot outs.

The Philippines has drug problem which is exacerbated by corruption. The police and many businessmen are involved. After former President Estrada was released from prison a few years ago after a pardon on corruption convictions, he stood again for election and came second. He is now the mayor of Manila City.

Fortunately these do not seem to change things for the visitor who is living or traveling in Manila and the safer places.

As for robberies, I found Milan is the most likely place for attempted robberies. At one time I faced one attempt per week in the Central Station area. I have not had any robberies while staying in Manila.
 
The real question is whether he will try to reform and modernise the country. Killing criminals won't be enough of a relief for the population, from which criminals come after all, and most of them are just as much victims as they are perpetrators.

Still, he seems to have at least some good intentions and a reasonable enough person given the circumstances. I'd be more worried about Trump than about Duterte. And to put things into perspective, let's remember, 30,000 people die every year in the U.S. from gun shot. Who really is there left to lecture on human rights?

Oh, yeah, the Pope.
EB
 
Speakpigeon said:
The real question is whether he will try to reform and modernise the country. Killing criminals won't be enough of a relief for the population, from which criminals come after all, and most of them are just as much victims as they are perpetrators.

Still, he seems to have at least some good intentions and a reasonable enough person given the circumstances. I'd be more worried about Trump than about Duterte. And to put things into perspective, let's remember, 30,000 people die every year in the U.S. from gun shot. Who really is there left to lecture on human rights?

Oh, yeah, the Pope.
EB
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Here's a quote from WIKI regarding his term as Mayor (and which gave him popularity):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte

Nicknamed "The Punisher" by Time, an alleged vigilante group called the Davao Death Squad has been tied to Duterte by human rights organizations and are responsible for the extrajudicial killings of petty criminals and drug dealers.[11][12] Over a period of 20 years, he turned Davao City from the "murder capital of the Philippines" to what tourism organisations now describe as "the most peaceful city in southeast Asia," and what numbeo.com ranks as the world's fourth safest place.[13][14][15] Nonetheless, Duterte has drawn criticism from various sources, particularly the press and the Philippine National Police leadership in the Aquino government, which contest the effectiveness of his policies.

Duterte was urged to run for the Philippine presidency numerous times,[17] but he refused these offers until well into 2015 on the grounds of a "flawed government system", old age and opposition from his family.[18] Nevertheless, on November 21, 2015, he declared his candidacy in the 2016 election contest for the office of the President of the Philippines, and won with a landslide victory, garnering 16,601,997 votes (39.01% of total votes cast, and 6.6 million votes ahead of closest rival Mar Roxas).[19] Duterte took office on June 30, 2016, for a term of six years.

Actually medical errors/routine medical treatment are the biggest cause of death in the USA. This article was written by a medial doctor some years earlier (so I guess that's a good argument the NRA can use)

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ctors-death-rates-united-states-a7011841.html
I will add this comment so as not to blame doctors alone
The researchers stressed that most medical errors were not caused by bad doctors and reporting an error should not automatically result in punishment or legal action.
Instead, they said most were the result of systemic problems, such as poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks or the lack of proper protocols

In the Philippines it's pretty bad. Patients have died while the payment is being awaited.

Despite this, the Philippines has a very free press and pretty much anything can be printed.
It's quite easy to get a gun providing the person gets clearance from the Bureau if Internal Review (BIR). Otherwise buy one on the black market. The problem with vigilante killings some wrong people may be executed. However no one seems to be investigating the deaths of people who are found dead with a placard on them reading, 'I am a drug pusher.'

Duterte has had a run in with the Catholic Church as it has been opposing government birth control methods. The Philippines is the only country in Asia where teenage pregnancies are on the rise (1 in 10).

I understand he is a Catholic but he doesn't have plans as others did in the past to visit the Vatican and kiss the Pope's ring.
 
Duterte was expelled twice from school for misconduct. When he was in University he shot a fellow student in the corridor of his University but didn't kill him. He was expelled but allowed to graduate. Was this an expose in the press? It appears in Wiki but his university experience is how he told it publicly. So he is quite used to the concept of shooting.
 
The real question is whether he will try to reform and modernise the country. Killing criminals won't be enough of a relief for the population, from which criminals come after all, and most of them are just as much victims as they are perpetrators.
EB
 
Modernizing the country is probably more difficult than eradicating drug problems. As mayor for 22 years he transformed Davao City from crime centre to the 4th safest city in the world. Currently there is a price on his head. He declared war on drug pushers but let the vigilantes do the work. Around 400 bodies turned up one month after he took power.

The Aquino administration after Mrs Aquino created a situation where every Filipino faces unemployment once a year while they have to leave their jobs and fill out forms and obtain police clearance. Also many companies use a loop hole to employ staff as temps then sack them, and take them back six months later, so they don't pay holidays or any National Insurance, compliments of Aquino's mother.

Other leaders have not changed this situation. The Spanish say Manana, and Filipinos say later, wait.... My wife met a builder to pay him money. I was with her. He turned up a week later saying there was a lot of traffic.
Pay in generally low and there is high age discrimination. Most ads you see in the press put a cap on 25 years old. Their best people work abroad because the pay in the Philippines is peanuts.
It's internet is trash. It is the worst in Asia apart from Indonesia and of course India (which is at the bottom of the pile).

I have a one month plan for unlimited use but in reality it works well for 1 to 2 hours a day before I get a notice of overuse. It sometimes takes a day to enter yahoo.com This is because Filipinos do not demand their rights. Internet is one of the most expensive in Asia.

However despite stories of unsafe areas even in the capital, I have faced more robbery attempts in Italy and none in the Philippines.

Duterte needs to eliminate corruption which is rampant. My wife paid a police guard 100 pesos (just over US$2.) to enter the airport where only ticket holders were allowed. He also told her next time we go to the airport he can arrange a limo at half the normal price. On the day I returned to the airport a police car turned and took us to the airport for 500 pesos.

If Duterte killed all the criminals there would hardly be any police or politicians left.
 
joedad said:
whichphilosophy said:
If Duterte killed all the criminals there would hardly be any police or politicians left.
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Akin to a religious war on sin. If you remove the sinners the pews and the pulpits are empty.
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This is very true. The police car was in mint condition and made it to the airport on time complete with uniformed driver.

I never found this on the internet but one politician there suggested that any suspected drug pushers should have their houses painted blue. The problem here is that it means if someone wanted some drugs they just have to look for the blue house.
 
Medicine Man said:
WHEW!!!!

Where are all the super-fans o' Capitali$m, when we need 'em??!!!

http://mjbizdaily.com/category/charts/


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I'm some were doing this in the 1960s and 1970s.
In the Philippines there are legalized drug pushers such as doctors and psychiatrists. Though I would not recommend it but Heroin was once an over the counter medicine.
 
Anything that is addictive carries a danger.

I was on a mildish benzo and still carry them with me for certain conditions. Honestly, that first blast in the ER must be akin to what people experience when they end up hooked and "chasing the dragon." I never wanted to be dependent or addicted or experience the negative health that comes along, just too frightening a thought, and so never used them recreationally even though the last time I was in for a checkup the doc offered to renew the prescription. I declined but was very tempted.

When I think of drug abuse I think of Elvis. That's what killed him, and he's had lots of company.
 
joedad said:
Anything that is addictive carries a danger.

I was on a mildish benzo and still carry them with me for certain conditions. Honestly, that first blast in the ER must be akin to what people experience when they end up hooked and "chasing the dragon." I never wanted to be dependent or addicted or experience the negative health that comes along, just too frightening a thought, and so never used them recreationally even though the last time I was in for a checkup the doc offered to renew the prescription. I declined but was very tempted.

When I think of drug abuse I think of Elvis. That's what killed him, and he's had lots of company.
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This is quite a widespread problem. People on medication have to receive medical advice and other drugs to get off the prescription drugs they were addicted to.
I former Heroin addict one of who said he was put on Methadone and became addicted to that. In the end he came off both.
 
whichphilosophy said:
Medicine Man said:
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An addiction and uncontrolled compulsion rather than acceptable.​
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The fact remains....addiction is (merely) a symptom of much-larger emotional-problems....NOT "the problem".

Anyone, who (actually) knows a drug-addict, ALSO knows that person had personal/emotional problems.....loooooooooooooooooooooong-before the drugs came-along.....and, chances are, that person started-out with alcohol.

Americans need to spend a little-more time discerning the difference between symptoms & (actual) problems!


​
 
Medicine Man said:
whichphilosophy said:
An addiction and uncontrolled compulsion rather than acceptable.​
Click to expand...

The fact remains....addiction is (merely) a symptom of much-larger emotional-problems....NOT "the problem".

Anyone, who (actually) knows a drug-addict, ALSO knows that person had personal/emotional problems.....loooooooooooooooooooooong-before the drugs came-along.....and, chances are, that person started-out with alcohol.

Americans need to spend a little-more time discerning the difference between symptoms & (actual) problems!


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The above is true. Once the person become hooked on his street or prescription medication, he has to also deal with the physical effects of withdrawing as part of his recovery which is quite difficult. I often used to refer to my barman as a legalized drug pusher. However I gave up drinking very quickly without becoming an alcoholic like a lot of my colleagues and friends.
 
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