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Elon Musk didn't build that

That looks like a convincing argument not for Teslas but against a market driven economy.
And this looks like a convincing argument against a state driven economy.
Trabant_601-s%C5%82.jpg

I will take the looks of Teslas (and other market driven cars) any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Market driven:
1280px-1977_Chevette_Rally.jpg
 
Market driven:
- Chevette was one of many models on the market. Trabant was one of two cars produced in East Germany and there was a wait list of several years just to get one. Perhaps it is better to compare Trabant to what its creators' West German cousins made in Wolfsburg (ironically very close to East German border) - the VW Golf!
- Trabant remained relatively unchanged for the entirety of its production run from 1957 to 1989. Only after the fall of the Berlin Wall did they try to update it with modern components like a VW 4 stroke engine (instead of two stroke) and MacPherson struts (instead of leaf springs) but by that time it was too little too late.
 
Market driven:
- Chevette was one of many models on the market. Trabant was one of two cars produced in East Germany and there was a wait list of several years just to get one. Perhaps it is better to compare Trabant to what its creators' West German cousins made in Wolfsburg (ironically very close to East German border) - the VW Golf!
- Trabant remained relatively unchanged for the entirety of its production run from 1957 to 1989. Only after the fall of the Berlin Wall did they try to update it with modern components like a VW 4 stroke engine (instead of two stroke) and MacPherson struts (instead of leaf springs) but by that time it was too little too late.

The function of an automobile is transportation.

It is auto manufacturers that want it to be a fashion statement.

The best is somewhere in the middle.

A design that evolves, but not one where change is forced to make it seem newer and more modern, or only to attract the eye.
 
The function of an automobile is transportation.
One of the functions. But when I say "unchanged" I was referring primarily to the technology. It still had 1950s technology in 1989 because lack of competition in the socialist system meant there was no incentive to evolve. When the border was opened and Trabants came to the West it was a problem because they were polluting 4 times as much than allowed in West Germany.

It is auto manufacturers that want it to be a fashion statement.
No, it's the people who want their cars to look good as well as well as have a lot of features.

The best is somewhere in the middle.
Who should determine what's "best"?

A design that evolves, but not one where change is forced to make it seem newer and more modern, or only to attract the eye.
Mandate unity square bodies so cars can't be distinguished by looks? What's wrong with updating the looks of a car every few years?
And again, the biggest problem with the Trabant was the technology - like the 600cc 2 stroke making astonishing 26 brake horsepower!
 
One of the functions. But when I say "unchanged" I was referring primarily to the technology. It still had 1950s technology in 1989 because lack of competition in the socialist system meant there was no incentive to evolve. When the border was opened and Trabants came to the West it was a problem because they were polluting 4 times as much than allowed in West Germany.

I agreed with you about this.

It is auto manufacturers that want it to be a fashion statement.

No, it's the people who want their cars to look good as well as well as have a lot of features.

Now after decades of brain washing (advertising) many people do expect meaningless cosmetic changes every year.

That in no way means it is best.

It is far more efficient to have as little changes as needed. If something is better than yes, add it, but change for the sake of change is inefficient and has a cost associated with it.

The best is somewhere in the middle.

Who should determine what's "best"?

I think rational people can discuss it. Right now there is no consumer choice in the matter. Nobody, at least no manufacturer I know of, is saying you can pay a little less because we didn't make unnecessary cosmetic changes.

A design that evolves, but not one where change is forced to make it seem newer and more modern, or only to attract the eye.

Mandate unity square bodies so cars can't be distinguished by looks? What's wrong with updating the looks of a car every few years?
And again, the biggest problem with the Trabant was the technology - like the 600cc 2 stroke making astonishing 26 brake horsepower!

Again I said I agree no change is not the best course either.

And of course none of this can be mandated. Just as we can't mandate people to not take their kids to McDonalds. But it seems perhaps things are moving in the direction of parents not wanting to take their kids to McDonalds.

People already want to pay less for their car. If they could get a new car with the latest technology that had the same sheet metal and headlight design as last years model but cost less I think they would take it.
 
I agreed with you about this.
Hallelujah! The unthinkable has happened!

Now after decades of brain washing (advertising) many people do expect meaningless cosmetic changes every year.
The looks of a car do not change significantly if at all (sometimes models get a mid-generation "face lift" but those changes are minor) from one year to the next. Changes occur every few years when the new generation is introduced and it has many changes under the skin as well. Take for example Toyota Corolla - it has had 11 generations in about 50 years. Or take BMW 3 series. Introduced in 1975, it went through 6 generations until today. The first generation lasted from 1975-1981, and the current generation has been with us since 2012. That doesn't seem like too rapid a change to me.

That in no way means it is best.
Well it wouldn't if it were true which it isn't.

It is far more efficient to have as little changes as needed.
Then buy a 911. Jeremy Clarkson called Porsche designers the laziest in the business because the 911 changed so little visually over the years.
1995 Porsche 911
1995-porsche-911-pic-38346.jpeg

2015 Porsche 911
2015-Porsche-Carrera-GTS-11.jpg

If something is better than yes, add it, but change for the sake of change is inefficient and has a cost associated with it.
Which is why no car manufacturer changes their design on a yearly basis.
The best is somewhere in the middle.
Which is what we have really. Model generations of about 5 years are the norm.
Who should determine what's "best"?
Customers.

I think rational people can discuss it. Right now there is no consumer choice in the matter.
Of course there is. There are many car manufacturers with different models, design philosophies and price points.
Nobody, at least no manufacturer I know of, is saying you can pay a little less because we didn't make unnecessary cosmetic changes.
Perhaps because nobody would buy it unless the design is already iconic. Otherwise they want their new car to look new.
A design that evolves, but not one where change is forced to make it seem newer and more modern, or only to attract the eye.
Again, buy a 911.
Again I said I agree no change is not the best course either.
Then we already live in a balanced middle position. No unnecessary change every year and no socialist stasis either.

People already want to pay less for their car. If they could get a new car with the latest technology that had the same sheet metal and headlight design as last years model but cost less I think they would take it.
If they change the mechanics the dimensions will likely change as well. So they will need to change the sheet metal to go with it anyway. And again, it's not "least year's model" as models do not change on a yearly basis.
 
- Chevette was one of many models on the market. Trabant was one of two cars produced in East Germany and there was a wait list of several years just to get one. Perhaps it is better to compare Trabant to what its creators' West German cousins made in Wolfsburg (ironically very close to East German border) - the VW Golf!
- Trabant remained relatively unchanged for the entirety of its production run from 1957 to 1989. Only after the fall of the Berlin Wall did they try to update it with modern components like a VW 4 stroke engine (instead of two stroke) and MacPherson struts (instead of leaf springs) but by that time it was too little too late.

The function of an automobile is transportation.

It is auto manufacturers that want it to be a fashion statement.

The best is somewhere in the middle.

A design that evolves, but not one where change is forced to make it seem newer and more modern, or only to attract the eye.

I hear you, but car companies want you to buy new car every 5 years or sooner. I wonder if self-driving taxis would kill current car-making business model.
 
I never said anything about the quality of the investments or the benefits to society.

I simply said Elon Musk didn't do this by himself.

"This" could be great things for society or terrible or somewhere in between but none of that has any bearing on the OP.

Well, you may as well just say that Tony Stark didn't build the Iron Man suit because all the parts were pulled together from the various military-funded projects being done by Stark Industries.
Actually, it's like saying Stark Industries is what it is because his father made a tremendous windfall from the defense contracts in World War II and later their support of the U.S. military in the Vietnam War, the anti-mutant defense programs of the 60s and 70s and the formation of SHIELD in the 80s and 90s.

As Tony himself once points out, all of that comes out of defense spending.

Which is a good comparison, IMO, because even Elon Musk has described himself as a "real life Tony Stark" and it's a damn good description. The guy builds space ships, electric cars, battery cells and solar arrays for houses. Government subsidies make it all possible, and he's a guy who knows how to work the system to make it happen.

He is, IMO, America's most successful African-American businessman.:D
 
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