Exhuming Reagan

[robnisch]

One of the things I remember from the 80's was the air traffic controllers strike. I had a coworker who was the union shop steward in Bethel AK. He moved is family to a new place in AK. He had to pay back the moving cost to the Feds for his move to Bethel.

https://soapboxie.com/us-politics/21reasonsReaganwasaterriblepresident

Don't even get me started on Oliver North.

 

[Swammerdami]

OP's link shows 21 crimes or despicable acts committed by Reagan as President. This oaf helped make the present-day GOP what it has become with a quip from his Inaugural Address: "Government is not the solution to our problem, government IS the problem."

Before his 1981-1988 term as President, Reagan was Governor of California 1967-1974. I paid little attention to politics at the time, but liberals blamed Reagan for defunding mental hospitals, with many patients being treated at taxpayer expense becoming instead homeless bums. He continued this philosophy as President by repealing the  Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980, passed just the year before under President Carter.

 

[ideologyhunter]

U.S. national debt in 1980: 914 billion
U.S. national debt in 1989: 3 trillion
Reagan got into politics because of his loathing of the post-WWII tax rates, which cut deeply into his salary from the studios. Of course, they were high to pay off war debt. In the current century, we just put all wars on the national credit card. Nice transition.

 

[steve_bank]

I take it you did nor like Regan?

 

[BH]

I think we would have been better off if Carter had gotten a second term.

 

[Swammerdami]

I see the thread title and want to say "Hallelujah! It's about time we exhume his fetid corpse and drive a stake through his heart." Perhaps more than any other single human, it is Ronald Reagan who deserves the blame for placing the U.S.A. on its present path to deliberate ignorance and fascism.

Genesis 6:4 begins "There were giants in the Earth in those days"; and there were giants who once served as President of the United States: Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt. But where are the giants now that we need them so desperately?

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama have among the highest IQs of any men ever to serve in the Oval Office, but their talents were wasted in this post-Reagan era of hyper-partisanism, lies and irrational hatreds.

I think we would have been better off if Carter had gotten a second term.

Yes. It's hard to postdict from such a huge counterfactual, but the country -- indeed the whole world -- might have been significantly better off had a righteous good-spirited man led the White House in the early 1980's instead of a stupid right-wing racist and homophobe. Carter was a victim of bad luck. He had to deal with the dollar devaluation begun under Nixon, as well as the Iranian Revolution provoked by U.S. malfeasance beginning under Eisenhower. Even as it was, Carter might have been re-elected if his daring Operation Eagle Claw had succeeded. (And some say, with credible circumstantial evidence, that George H.W. Bush led a secret mission asking Iran NOT to release the hostages before the 1980 election.)

Giants still sat in the Oval Office during our own lifetimes! FDR, HST, DDE, JFK, LBJ and even RMN form a list of six consecutive Presidents who were ALL more effective than anyone who's come since. We have Ronald Reagan to thank for that.

 

[steve_bank]

Those giants if you look at who they were they were as flawed as anyone and at times as corrupt as anyone else. Politics then and now are not all that different.

The Emancipation Proclamation may not have been enacted if the North did not need troops. It was was more strategic than a moral statement. It was intended in part to sow civil unrest in the South.

Carter's bungling of the attempted rescue of the Iran hostages was a part of his reelection loss. If it had worked he would have been a hero.

Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BH]

Ben Barnes, a former lieutenant governor of Texas, has come forward claiming he saw John Connally offering Iranians bribes to keep the hostages until after the election.

Looking back Carters hands were tied in a lot of ways anyway. The USSR was right above Iran. If we had declared war and attacked Iran the Soviets would have given them all kinds of weapons that at that time were equal or better than ours. We could have had another horrible ordeal like Vietnam.

 

[robnisch]

Ben Barnes, a former lieutenant governor of Texas, has come forward claiming he saw John Connally offering Iranians bribes to keep the hostages until after the election.

Looking back Carters hands were tied in a lot of ways anyway. The USSR was right above Iran. If we had declared war and attacked Iran the Soviets would have given them all kinds of weapons that at that time were equal or better than ours. We could have had another horrible ordeal like Vietnam.

Some historians think the Iran/Contra deal was part of the quid pro quo.

 

[steve_bank]

Ben Barnes, a former lieutenant governor of Texas, has come forward claiming he saw John Connally offering Iranians bribes to keep the hostages until after the election.

Looking back Carters hands were tied in a lot of ways anyway. The USSR was right above Iran. If we had declared war and attacked Iran the Soviets would have given them all kinds of weapons that at that time were equal or better than ours. We could have had another horrible ordeal like Vietnam.

I'd say sEndeing helicopters and Delta Force troops into the heart of Iran would constute an act of war.

 

[steve_bank]

You can debate Reaganomics, but he iherited a problematic economy. I rember auto loan rates at around 17%.

Reaganomics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The pillars of Reagan's economic policy included increasing defense spending, balancing the federal budget and slowing the growth of government spending, reducing the federal income tax and capital gains tax, reducing government regulation, and tightening the money supply in order to reduce inflation.[6]

The results of Reaganomics are still debated. Supporters point to the end of stagflation, stronger GDP growth, and an entrepreneurial revolution in the decades that followed.[7][8] Critics point to the widening income gap, what they described as an atmosphere of greed, reduced economic mobility, and the national debt tripling in eight years which ultimately reversed the post-World War II trend of a shrinking national debt as percentage of GDP.[9][10]

Historical context
Inflation and crude oil price, 1969–1989 (pre-Reagan years highlighted in yellow)

Prior to the Reagan administration, the United States economy experienced a decade of high unemployment and persistently high inflation (known as stagflation). Attacks on Keynesian economic orthodoxy as well as empirical economic models such as the Phillips Curve grew. Political pressure favored stimulus resulting in an expansion of the money supply. President Richard Nixon's wage and price controls were phased out.[11] The federal oil reserves were created to ease any future short term shocks. President Jimmy Carter had begun phasing out price controls on petroleum while he created the Department of Energy. Much of the credit for the resolution of the stagflation is given to two causes: renewed focus on increasing productivity[12] and a three-year contraction of the money supply by the Federal Reserve Board under Paul Volcker.[13]

In stating that his intention was to lower taxes, Reagan's approach was a departure from his immediate predecessors. Reagan enacted lower marginal tax rates as well as simplified income tax codes and continued deregulation. During Reagan's eight year presidency, the annual deficits averaged 4.0% of GDP, compared to a 2.2% average during the preceding eight years.[14] The real (inflation adjusted) average rate of growth in federal spending fell from 4% under Jimmy Carter to 2.5% under Ronald Reagan.[15][16] GDP per employed person increased at an average 1.5% rate during the Reagan administration, compared to an average 0.6% during the preceding eight years.[17] Private sector productivity growth, measured as real output per hour of all persons, increased at an average rate of 1.9% during Reagan's eight years, compared to an average 1.3% during the preceding eight years.[18] Federal net outlays as a percent of GDP averaged 21.4% under Reagan, compared to 19.1% during the preceding eight years.[19]

During the Nixon and Ford Administrations, before Reagan's election, a combined supply and demand side policy was considered unconventional by the moderate wing of the Republican Party. While running against Reagan for the Presidential nomination in 1980, George H. W. Bush had derided Reaganomics as "voodoo economics".[20] Similarly, in 1976, Gerald Ford had severely criticized Reagan's proposal to turn back a large part of the Federal budget to the states.

 

[robnisch]

PolitiFact - Here's how the deficit performed under Republican and Democratic presidents, from Reagan to Trump

This article was updated Aug. 2 to include a graph with the annual federal deficit in constant dollars. A viral post por

www.politifact.com

And he was a shitty actor.

 

[robnisch]

Ronald Reagan Made Central America a Killing Field

In the 1980s, the Reagan administration used Central America as a testing ground to rehabilitate US imperial

jacobin.com

How anyone can defended Reagan's presidency is beyond me.

 

[TomC]

Ronald Reagan Made Central America a Killing Field

In the 1980s, the Reagan administration used Central America as a testing ground to rehabilitate US imperial

jacobin.com

How anyone can defended Reagan's presidency is beyond me.

Not as bad as his successors, like Bush, Bush II, and Trump?
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

And yet, sometimes I even hear Democrats praising Reagan.

Wasn't Reagan the asshole who started or promoted the welfare queen shit? Why is it that so many wealthy people despise poor people? Reagan was the forerunner to the Trump, although I agree that he was better than W, well maybe. At least W got Medicare Part D passed. Prior to that, Medicare recipients had to pay full price for all their meds.

Ronald Reagan Made Central America a Killing Field

In the 1980s, the Reagan administration used Central America as a testing ground to rehabilitate US imperial

jacobin.com

How anyone can defended Reagan's presidency is beyond me.

Not as bad as his successors, like Bush, Bush II, and Trump?
Tom

On second thought, I'm not so sure. What exactly did he do for the average person?

 

[TomC]

Wasn't Reagan the asshole who started or promoted the welfare queen shit?

Wasn't it Clinton who "ended welfare as we know it"?

The U.S. was a mess when Reagan took over. I don't think it was because Carter, but it was a mess. Reagan improved things a good bit. It was a slow process. But I honestly believe that Clinton's best feature was staying out of the way of long term benefits from Reagan policies.

Clinton didn't do anything important beyond staying out of the way. Reagan fixed some stuff.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

To clarify, of course, nobody was nearly as bad as Trump.

I found a list of pros and cons of the Reagan administration.

https://reagan.procon.org

On Mar. 30, 1981, 69 days after Reagan’s inauguration on Jan. 20, John Hinckley, Jr. attempted to assassinate the President outside the Washington Hilton hotel. Reagan was shot under the left arm, the bullet lodged in his lung, and missed his heart by less than an inch. [2]

When Ronald Reagan took office the US economy had 9% inflation with 20% interest rates. [50] To combat these effects Reagan established what came to be known as “Reaganomics,” economic policies that included increased defense spending, lower personal income taxes, reduced spending on social services, and decreased business regulation. [51]

The President and his cabinet emphasized supply-side economics, believing that slashing taxes will stimulate economic growth. They passed legislation such as the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, which included the largest tax cuts in the postwar period, the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, and the Tax Reform Act of 1986. As a result, the top marginal tax rate on individual income was reduced from 70% to 28% and the overall tax code was restructured. [37] [52]

13,000 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) walked off the job in a nationwide strike on Aug. 3, 1981. Two days later, Reagan announced that they were in violation of legislation prohibiting strikes by government employees because of public safety and, if they did not report to work within 48 hours, their jobs would be terminated. Only 1,300 returned to their jobs. [42] It was an event that changed the landscape of US labor relations – major strikes plummeted from an average of 300 each year in the decades before to fewer than 30 in 2006. [20]

On Aug. 19, 1981, Ronald Reagan fulfilled his campaign pledge to appoint the first woman to the Supreme Court by nominating Sandra Day O’Connor to replace Justice Potter Stewart. Congress confirmed O’Connor’s appointment on Sep. 21, 1981 by a vote of 99-0. [3]

In the fall of 1981, the US economy took a turn for the worse, experiencing its worst recession since the Depression. The Federal Reserve increased interest rates to combat the 14% inflation rate. By Nov. 1982, unemployment reached 10.8%, thousands of businesses failed, farmers lost their land, and many sick, elderly, and poor became homeless. [2] The official unemployment rate reached 11.5 million in Jan. 1983, and Reagan’s disapproval rating rose to 50%, from a low of 18% in early 1981. [53][54]

Economy:​

Reagan pledged during his 1980 campaign for president to balance the federal budget, but never submitted a balanced budget in his eight years in office. In 1981, the deficit was $79 billion and, in 1986, at the peak of his deficit spending, it stood at $221 billion. The federal debt was $994 billion when he took office in 1981 and grew to $2.9 trillion when his second term ended in 1989. [36]Reagan also added more trade barriers than any other president since Hoover in 1930. US imports that were subject to some form of trade restraint increased from 12% in 1980 to 23% in 1988. [37]

Con 5​

Education:​

In his two terms in office, Reagan slashed federal aid to schools by more than $1 billion, and he cut the Department of Education budget by 19%. [4]One of Reagan’s campaign promises was to abolish the Department of Education, which he considered a “bureaucratic boondoggle.” After intermittent attempts to fulfill this promise, he gave up in 1983 due to lack of Congressional support. [38]

Con 6​

Environment:​

As a president who said “trees cause more pollution than automobiles do,” Reagan issued leases for oil, gas, and coal development on tens of millions of acres of national lands. Reagan’s appointee to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Anne Gorsuch, tried to gut the 1972 Clean Water Act, cut EPA funding by 25%, and mismanaged a $1.6 billion program to clean up hazardous waste dumps. [39] [40]

Con 7​

Foreign Policy:​

Reagan broke his own vows not to make deals with terrorists or states that aided them. In the “Iran-Contra” scandal, Reagan’s administration bypassed congressional restrictions on aiding Nicaragua’s Contra guerilla fighters, in part by diverting money to them from the sale of missiles to Iran. [27]Reagan also initiated military involvement in Libya, Grenada, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Lebanon. [6]

There's a lot more, but it looks like he did a lot more harmful things than positive things.

 

[southernhybrid]

Wasn't Reagan the asshole who started or promoted the welfare queen shit?

Wasn't it Clinton who "ended welfare as we know it"?

The U.S. was a mess when Reagan took over. I don't think it was because Carter, but it was a mess. Reagan improved things a good bit. It was a slow process. But I honestly believe that Clinton's best feature was staying out of the way of long term benefits from Reagan policies.

Clinton didn't do anything important beyond staying out of the way. Reagan fixed some stuff.
Tom

Clinton did pass some bipartisan legislation that hurt a lot of people who received government benefits, but Reagan used the term "welfare queen" and disparaged poor people. From what I remember, Clinton had to work with people like the Newt to get anything passed, so there was damage done to so called welfare programs. But, I don't remember enough of the details to be honest.

Remind me what Reagan fixed?

Looking at the list, I think I was correct about him hurting social programs, maybe even more than what happened during the Clinton era.

Social Policy:​

Reagan believed that widespread freeloading plagued welfare and social programs. As Reagan slashed spending in his first term on programs such as food stamps and subsidized housing, the poverty rate climbed from 12% to 15% and unemployment rose from 7% to 11%. [44]

 

[TomC]

Remind me what Reagan fixed?

Double digit inflation was a beginning.

It was decades ago, the details aren't terribly clear now.

What did Carter fix? Iran?
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

I'd have to look up more about Carter, but he did try to warn people about the changing environment and while he never called it global warning, he certainly tried to inspire people to change their habits, by using less energy. Remember how he wore a sweater in the WH and encouraged people to turn down the heat. he had solar panels put on the WH roof, which Reagan had removed. So, Carter didn't accomplish what he tried in that area, but at least he had the right idea.

Okay, I found a list of some of Carter's accomplishments, but not all of them were when he was president.

https://learnodo-newtonic.com/jimmy-carter-accomplishments

On assuming office, Jimmy Carter decided to use his influence to mediate the long-running Arab–Israeli conflict. By the end of his first year in office, he had already met with Anwar Sadatof Egypt, King Hussein of Jordan, Hafez al-Assad of Syria and Yitzhak Rabin of Israel. He was able to convince Anwar Sadat to visit Israel in 1978. Carter then invited Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin to the presidential retreat of Camp David in September 1978. Following twelve days of secret negotiations at Camp David, the two leaders signed the Camp David Accords at the White House. The Camp David Accords comprise two separate agreements: “A Framework for Peace in the Middle East” and “A Framework for the Conclusion of a Peace Treaty between Egypt and Israel”. The second of these led to the Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty signed on March 26, 1979. Jimmy Carter played a critical role in the treaty getting done and he himself viewed the agreement as his most

He also established the Dept. of Education, the Department of Energy as well as passing legislation to improve the environment.

immy Carter signed several bills which aimed to improve the environment. On August 3, 1977, he signed into law the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act of 1977 (SMCRA). The SMCRA regulated the environmental effects of coal mining in the U.S. through the creation of two programs: one for regulating active coal mines and a second for reclaiming abandoned mine lands. On December 2, 1980, President Carter signed into law the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act. The Act doubled the amount of public land set aside for national parks and wildlife refuges. Jimmy Carter also established the Superfund through the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980. The Superfund is a United States federal government program designed to fund the cleanup of sites contaminated with hazardous substances and pollutants.

Now, what all did Reagan fix? He was a big promoted of supply side economics, which include lowering the taxes on the wealthy.

I've always thought that Carter was under appreciated for his accomplishments. Compared to other presidents, he was a humble, honest man. Of course, all of our presidents had faults and weaknesses.