Exposing Atheistic Myths

[DBT]

Stand in front of a train coming at you and say to yourself 'Train is just a meaningless word, train is just a meaningless word...'



Or 'If I do not look at the train and perceive it it doers not exist.'

Meaning is what we give words

A Hindu story. A msan is listening to a guru lecture. The guru says 'God is in you and god is ineverything'. Full of bliss the man is walking down a road and sees an elephant running yowards him. He thinks to himself 'If god is in me and god is in the 3elphant I have nothing to fear!'.

The elephant comes upon the man bellowing, grabs him with its trunk, and tosses the man aside.

Bewildered the man asks the guru where he went wrong. The guru replied 'When the elephant bellowed it was god in the elephant telling the god in you to get out of the way, but you were not listening;.

That is why God is always perceiving everything. The train DOES NOT EXIST if God is not perceiving it.

You're right on the doorstep with your finger on the doorbell!

I used to have a book of stories from India. You miss the ooint entirely.

In Hindu tradition god is more a level of human awareness or conspicuousness. There is a saying and greeting, 'see the god in you' Not god of Christians but the godliness in all of us.
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There is no separation between the world and God (Brahman) in Hindu belief. Unlike Abrahamic theology, it is the creative principle of Brahman that manifests rather than creates the world and everything in it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I keep seeing the thread title and fear that Funcouple has returned.

 

[DBT]

I keep seeing the thread title and fear that Funcouple has returned.

Wouldn't that be fun.

 

[aupmanyav]

There is no separation between the world and God (Brahman) in Hindu belief, it is the creative principle of Brahman that manifests rather than creates the world and everything in it.

Brahman just exists and its existence itself creates the illusion of the world - according to Hindu Advita philosophy. We feel as if things other than Brahman exist. Howdy, DBT, do you remember me! Coming back after a long time.

 

[DBT]

There is no separation between the world and God (Brahman) in Hindu belief, it is the creative principle of Brahman that manifests rather than creates the world and everything in it.

Brahman just exists and its existence itself creates the illusion of the world - according to Hindu Advita philosophy. We feel as if things other than Brahman exist. Howdy, DBT, do you remember me! Coming back after a long time.

Right back to the good old days of IIDB. Nice to see you still around.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, anyway,

If Berkeley is in a universe where things only exist while a mind is looking at them,
and if a Godmind is propping this universe up by regarding everything, all the time

Then every time Berkeley examines the existence of ANYTHING, it's there. permanently. All the time. No matter that Berkeley does, the matter persists. Because God..

How would he then conclude that matter requires a mind? He never has, and never will, experience an item that is not persistent while he looks away. All the evidence he can ever find, short of a direct, divine revelation of how things really work, is that matter just has the property of being persistent.

So his theory is one that can only come to be formed by rejecting the reality he experiences. Which i think is a poor choice to make if one's trying to philosophically define reality...

 

[Treedbear]

...
So his theory is one that can only come to be formed by rejecting the reality he experiences. Which i think is a poor choice to make if one's trying to philosophically define reality...

I think that argument should have gone in the Presidential Politics forum.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

So, anyway,

If Berkeley is in a universe where things only exist while a mind is looking at them,
and if a Godmind is propping this universe up by regarding everything, all the time

Then every time Berkeley examines the existence of ANYTHING, it's there. permanently. All the time. No matter that Berkeley does, the matter persists. Because God..

How would he then conclude that matter requires a mind? He never has, and never will, experience an item that is not persistent while he looks away. All the evidence he can ever find, short of a direct, divine revelation of how things really work, is that matter just has the property of being persistent.

So his theory is one that can only come to be formed by rejecting the reality he experiences. Which i think is a poor choice to make if one's trying to philosophically define reality...

And now, a big question. Can God stop experiencing the reality of a persistent thing? If yes, why would God allow evil things to persist? If not, where does such persistence and existence of things come from so powerful, God cannot control that or make evil things go away?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, anyway,

If Berkeley is in a universe where things only exist while a mind is looking at them,
and if a Godmind is propping this universe up by regarding everything, all the time

Then every time Berkeley examines the existence of ANYTHING, it's there. permanently. All the time. No matter that Berkeley does, the matter persists. Because God..

How would he then conclude that matter requires a mind? He never has, and never will, experience an item that is not persistent while he looks away. All the evidence he can ever find, short of a direct, divine revelation of how things really work, is that matter just has the property of being persistent.

So his theory is one that can only come to be formed by rejecting the reality he experiences. Which i think is a poor choice to make if one's trying to philosophically define reality...

And now, a big question. Can God stop experiencing the reality of a persistent thing? If yes, why would God allow evil things to persist?

To make good from the bad... that is the whole payoff of the story of Joseph and his flamboyantly ridiculous coat.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, anyway,

If Berkeley is in a universe where things only exist while a mind is looking at them,
and if a Godmind is propping this universe up by regarding everything, all the time

Then every time Berkeley examines the existence of ANYTHING, it's there. permanently. All the time. No matter that Berkeley does, the matter persists. Because God..

How would he then conclude that matter requires a mind? He never has, and never will, experience an item that is not persistent while he looks away. All the evidence he can ever find, short of a direct, divine revelation of how things really work, is that matter just has the property of being persistent.

So his theory is one that can only come to be formed by rejecting the reality he experiences. Which i think is a poor choice to make if one's trying to philosophically define reality...

And now, a big question. Can God stop experiencing the reality of a persistent thing? If yes, why would God allow evil things to persist?

To make good from the bad... that is the whole payoff of the story of Joseph and his flamboyantly ridiculous coat.

But why do we have to actually experience bad in order to appreciate good?
I've never had polio. I know what it is and will happily vaccinate myself and my kids to avoid it. I learned that lesson from other people's 'bad.'
We could just be given the knowledge of bad, without having to experience it. Maybe a fruit tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Then any benefits from having known bad could be applied without actual bad being suffered.
Or ridiculous coats being worn to school.

But for some reason, God not only allows bad, he allows bad to be suffered in secret. Serial killers going uncaught for years, that makes God an accomplice in every death.
Not just an omniscient witness, but a fully accessory before, during and after the fact.
Not only is he the one thinking about eht killer so (in Berkeley's view) the killer will exist, he's also thinking the knife into persistent existence, and the shovel, and the unmarked grave, and the fire that destroys the evidence, and the souvenir the killer keeps under his porch...
And does fuck-all to reveal any evidence, to inform any witnesses, to save any victims...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To make good from the bad... that is the whole payoff of the story of Joseph and his flamboyantly ridiculous coat.

But why do we have to actually experience bad in order to appreciate good?

Why does a Zebra have stripes?

It is a just-so story to obfuscate the conflict of bad things and a god that gives a fuck all the while not doing a thing to show the god actually gives a fuck.

But for some reason, God not only allows bad, he allows bad to be suffered in secret. Serial killers going uncaught for years, that makes God an accomplice in every death. Not just an omniscient witness, but a fully accessory before, during and after the fact.

Good luck in court... Dershowitz is god's lawyer.

Not only is he the one thinking about eht killer so (in Berkeley's view) the killer will exist, he's also thinking the knife into persistent existence, and the shovel, and the unmarked grave, and the fire that destroys the evidence, and the souvenir the killer keeps under his porch...
And does fuck-all to reveal any evidence, to inform any witnesses, to save any victims...

Thoughts and prayers man, thoughts and prayers.

 

[steve_bank]

Well, any myth held by an atheist is an atheist myth. In toto a long list I expect.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I open up the fridge, take out three eggs, crack them, fry them, and eat them. They now are no longer existent. So when does God stop seeing eggs? If my actions cause things to no longer be persistent objects, so even God must accept that fact, Why would God accept that rapist murderer John is about to cause Jane to die horribly and no longer be a persistent object? Why doesn't God have a say in all of this? Or maybe God just does not care.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I open up the fridge, take out three eggs, crack them, fry them, and eat them. They now are no longer existent. So when does God stop seeing eggs? If my actions cause things to no longer be persistent objects, so even God must accept that fact, Why would God accept that rapist murderer John is about to cause Jane to die horribly and no longer be a persistent object? Why doesn't God have a say in all of this? Or maybe God just does not care.

Should the question not occur to the believer, "Why is my god acting like an atheist?