Extremist pastor in New Jersey claims Trump was chosen by god

[southernhybrid]

I realize that many conservative Christians believe that Trump was god's chosen leader, but I really didn't understand how insane this had become. If this belongs in the religious forum, I have no problem with it being moved. I couldn't decide which place was a better fit since it's about both politics and religion. Tell me why again, some Americans are worried about Muslims, when we have so many Christian extremists living among us?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/15/nyregion/trump-preacher-magachurch.html

“Some of you have been saying you want to live in biblical times,” Mr. Cahn said, pacing behind a lectern. Then he spread his hands wide. “Well, you are.”

Sitting at the end of a sleepy drive an hour from Manhattan, Beth Israel may look like any common suburban church. But the center has a highly unusual draw. Every weekend, some 1,000 congregants gather for the idiosyncratic teachings of the church’s celebrity pastor, an entrepreneurial doomsday prophet who claims that President Trump’s rise to power was foretold in the Bible.

Mr. Cahn is tapping into a belief more popular than may appear.

A recent Fox News poll found one in four Americans believe “God wanted Donald Trump to become president.” Celebrities like the televangelist Paula White and Franklin Graham have boosted the idea. The president’s own press secretary suggested as much in a January interview. And on the opening day of the Conservative Political Action Conference this month, the millionaire businessman Michael Lindell took to the stage and declared President Trump “chosen by God.”

With his growing stature, Mr. Cahn is also a rising figure in some quarters of conservative politics. In an email to congregants, Mr. Cahn shared his latest good news: This weekend he is making his first trip to the president’s vacation retreat, Mar-a-Lago. He is set to address a small gathering of activists and advisers.

After worship on a recent Sunday, in a roped-off section flanked by security guards, Mr. Cahn signed piles of his books before a small crowd. At 59, Mr. Cahn cultivates a refined demeanor, rarely appearing without a signature all-black suit and tie. He laid his hands gently on one man’s shoulders and offered quiet counsel. “Be patient,” he said. “Keep praying for breakthrough.”

Gail Greenholtz, an elder member, stood near the end of the line. “Many of us consider him a prophet of our time,” she said. “A visionary.”

Have any of you heard of this nut job before? If you can access the article, please read the entire piece. This pastor was raised in what sounds like a liberal Jewish home, then began having nutty delusions as a young adult. Sometimes he refers to himself as a Rabbi and other times as a pastor. I really don't understand why so many people in the country have become so nutty. WTF!

 

[AdamWho]

I suppose that even the Antichrist would be chosen by their God....

 

[ideologyhunter]

When that gaggle of fundamentalist preachers went to the Oval Office to pray with (and lay hands on) the Donald, I was scared they'd come down with leprosy. With a pestilent toad.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

By which entity? Lucifer sounds more likely.

 

[just_me]

I get tired of these attention starved charlatans dishing out their false justifications for their personal biases.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Have any of you heard of this nut job before? If you can access the article, please read the entire piece. This pastor was raised in what sounds like a liberal Jewish home, then began having nutty delusions as a young adult. Sometimes he refers to himself as a Rabbi and other times as a pastor. I really don't understand why so many people in the country have become so nutty. WTF!

Have not heard of this particular nut job, he doesn't sound unique, just delivers a product that lots of people want.

Mr. Cahn likes to say he is surprised by his own success, preferring supernatural explanations. When speaking, he begins slowly but picks up pace, almost falling over his words with excitement. He also has a flair for the theatrical tale. Lounging in a back office at the church, surrounded by framed paintings of biblical landscapes, he sprinkled enchanted anecdotes in conversation.

How did he raise money for his first church? “A mysterious American Indian appeared with a check for $150,000. They called him Wahoo. God instructed him to come to me.”

That's pretty typical stuff when you consider his target audience. Very good capitalist marketing on his part to be quite honest. He's making lots of money and doing it legally. He'll never go to jail even though everything he is telling is basically a lie and a forgery. He's simply selling religion, the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, and people like that stuff, lots of people.

It doesn't make our species look very intelligent but it's certainly part of our culture, sad to say.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wasn't it prophesized that many would follow the beast? And I don't mean Brock Lesnar.

 

[funinspace]

Have any of you heard of this nut job before?

When I want to look up a new (to me) right wing nut job I look here. I didn't remember this name FWIW. Though it seems he has been a known nut job for at least a few years...
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/people/jonathan-cahn/

 

[Keith&Co.]

I really don't understand why so many people in the country have become so nutty. WTF!

I wonder if it's 'sunken costs.' Or something close to that.

40 years ago, if a fraction of the revelations about Trump had come out about any other politician, supporters would have dropped him like a greased anchor. But in 2016, the choice was Trump of Evil Feminist Gun-grabbing Murderous (etc, etc) Hillary. So they made the Righteous Choice.

now, with the growing evidence that Trump was not a good choice, they cannot admit any error. They cannot admit the possibility of error. Because if Trump is a liar, a cheat, corrupt, compromised, scamming, hateful, bigoted, and in league with enemies of the state, what does that say about their support of him?

 

[southernhybrid]

I really don't understand why so many people in the country have become so nutty. WTF!

I wonder if it's 'sunken costs.' Or something close to that.

40 years ago, if a fraction of the revelations about Trump had come out about any other politician, supporters would have dropped him like a greased anchor. But in 2016, the choice was Trump of Evil Feminist Gun-grabbing Murderous (etc, etc) Hillary. So they made the Righteous Choice.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why they support the obviously insane president. I have a "friend" who I only discuss nursing issues and her many personal problems with, but on those rare occasions that I visit Facebook, she sometimes has something posted that blows my mind. This weekend I went to look for something on FB and her latest post came up. She was extremely upset because Fox news had suspended Judge Piro! This friend of mine is intelligent, educated and of course is a conservative Christian. I don't get it. I really don't.

now, with the growing evidence that Trump was not a good choice, they cannot admit any error. They cannot admit the possibility of error. Because if Trump is a liar, a cheat, corrupt, compromised, scamming, hateful, bigoted, and in league with enemies of the state, what does that say about their support of him?

I have a "friend" who I only discuss nursing issues and her personal problems with, but I know she's a supporter of Trump as well as a conservative Christian. While I rarely visit FB, I took a look this weekend and my friend had posted something about how terribly upset she was that Judge Jeanine had been suspended by Fox news. I no longer post anything on FB, other than National Geographic photos because I'm sick of all the political junk on it. But, when I do see this friend posting something about how much she loves Trump and supports his wall, I have no idea how an otherwise intelligent, educated person has fallen for his shit. Fox news apparently is very effective at brainwashing people.

 

[Gun Nut]

I think it is odd (in a way you may be surprised about) that 1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that. So why are the true believers now down to only 25% believing it was an act of God? I view this as a 75% disapproval rating.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I have a "friend" who I only discuss nursing issues and her personal problems with, but I know she's a supporter of Trump as well as a conservative Christian. While I rarely visit FB, I took a look this weekend and my friend had posted something about how terribly upset she was that Judge Jeanine had been suspended by Fox news. I no longer post anything on FB, other than National Geographic photos because I'm sick of all the political junk on it. But, when I do see this friend posting something about how much she loves Trump and supports his wall, I have no idea how an otherwise intelligent, educated person has fallen for his shit. Fox news apparently is very effective at brainwashing people.

In my family the people who are the biggest Trumpsters are the ones who have benefited most from liberal policies. They are the ones with government pensions/health care and those on generous, secure union retirements. So I think the fact that liberal policy has succeeded for decades has allowed a trump to be elected.

FDR was elected because there was no liberal policy and people needed it. If things like social security and medicare and food stamps and a host of other liberal government policies had not been in place Trump could only get elected by redistributing wealth in the form of handing out money at the voting booth. It's unfortunate that people forget the roots or their prosperity and success but that is my take.

I also think a lot of folks have a latent hatred and distrust of people of other groups. A trump lets them feel good about that while not jeopardizing their liberal successes. In a very real way you get to have your cake and eat it too.

I think it is odd (in a way you may be surprised about) that 1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that. So why are the true believers now down to only 25% believing it was an act of God? I view this as a 75% disapproval rating.

If it's one in four church-goers that's 25% of 25%. So that's about 6% of the population.

 

[AirPoh]

I get tired of these attention starved charlatans dishing out their false justifications for their personal biases.

Everyone has to make a living.

 

[Gun Nut]

I have a "friend" who I only discuss nursing issues and her personal problems with, but I know she's a supporter of Trump as well as a conservative Christian. While I rarely visit FB, I took a look this weekend and my friend had posted something about how terribly upset she was that Judge Jeanine had been suspended by Fox news. I no longer post anything on FB, other than National Geographic photos because I'm sick of all the political junk on it. But, when I do see this friend posting something about how much she loves Trump and supports his wall, I have no idea how an otherwise intelligent, educated person has fallen for his shit. Fox news apparently is very effective at brainwashing people.

In my family the people who are the biggest Trumpsters are the ones who have benefited most from liberal policies. They are the ones with government pensions/health care and those on generous, secure union retirements. So I think the fact that liberal policy has succeeded for decades has allowed a trump to be elected.

FDR was elected because there was no liberal policy and people needed it. If things like social security and medicare and food stamps and a host of other liberal government policies had not been in place Trump could only get elected by redistributing wealth in the form of handing out money at the voting booth. It's unfortunate that people forget the roots or their prosperity and success but that is my take.

I also think a lot of folks have a latent hatred and distrust of people of other groups. A trump lets them feel good about that while not jeopardizing their liberal successes. In a very real way you get to have your cake and eat it too.

I think it is odd (in a way you may be surprised about) that 1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that. So why are the true believers now down to only 25% believing it was an act of God? I view this as a 75% disapproval rating.

If it's one in four church-goers that's 25% of 25%. So that's about 6% of the population.

irrelevant.. apples to oranges. I am talking about approval within church goers, compared with historical church goer reporting.. Adding non-church goers to the point is meaningless. When your core belief system centers around what God does, what God "likes".. and you go from near 100% "god did it" to 25% "god did it", it is extremely telling about what that segment thinks about "it"

 

[southernhybrid]

I have a "friend" who I only discuss nursing issues and her personal problems with, but I know she's a supporter of Trump as well as a conservative Christian. While I rarely visit FB, I took a look this weekend and my friend had posted something about how terribly upset she was that Judge Jeanine had been suspended by Fox news. I no longer post anything on FB, other than National Geographic photos because I'm sick of all the political junk on it. But, when I do see this friend posting something about how much she loves Trump and supports his wall, I have no idea how an otherwise intelligent, educated person has fallen for his shit. Fox news apparently is very effective at brainwashing people.

In my family the people who are the biggest Trumpsters are the ones who have benefited most from liberal policies. They are the ones with government pensions/health care and those on generous, secure union retirements. So I think the fact that liberal policy has succeeded for decades has allowed a trump to be elected.

FDR was elected because there was no liberal policy and people needed it. If things like social security and medicare and food stamps and a host of other liberal government policies had not been in place Trump could only get elected by redistributing wealth in the form of handing out money at the voting booth. It's unfortunate that people forget the roots or their prosperity and success but that is my take.

I also think a lot of folks have a latent hatred and distrust of people of other groups. A trump lets them feel good about that while not jeopardizing their liberal successes. In a very real way you get to have your cake and eat it too.

I think it is odd (in a way you may be surprised about) that 1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that. So why are the true believers now down to only 25% believing it was an act of God? I view this as a 75% disapproval rating.

If it's one in four church-goers that's 25% of 25%. So that's about 6% of the population.

That's a good point. This nurse friend of mine is on Medicare and Social Security. She's 67 years old and the only reason that she works is because she's in dire need of money. The only reason I know her is because I was asked to find a nurse to replace me when I retired. She was the only one who wanted the job, plus she is highly qualified for the job. She has many problems, but she's been a life long Republican. I've referred to myself as a bleeding heart secular liberal after she told me she was a Republican. She's actually my only Republican friend. I have Christian friends but all of them are Democrats.

 

[funinspace]

I think it is odd (in a way you may be surprised about) that 1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that. So why are the true believers now down to only 25% believing it was an act of God? I view this as a 75% disapproval rating.

Not sure what time frame you are using for "historically", but American Christians have not thought in terms of "God did the thing I like" in decades at anything close to 100%. American Christians, if broken down in very generalized categories would be roughly 21% RC, 25% evangelical protestant, and 20% other protestant. The other third is a huge mish-mash of other types from fundamentalists (who don't consider themselves evangelicals), Eastern Orthodox, to Mennonites, to Mormons, to Jehovah Witnesses. Of the major groupings, only the evangelical protestants would largely fit your stereo type. I'm sure many fundamentalists would as well. But mainstream Protestants and RC's would largely not fit your stereo type. Nor would the Mennonites and Quakers fit your stereo type, especially in terms of politics.

A starting reference to American Christians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States

All Protestant denominations accounted for 46.5%, while the Catholic Church by itself, at 20.8%, was the largest individual denomination. A 2014 Pew study categorizes white evangelical Protestants, 25.4% of the population, as the country's largest religious cohort

 

[Gun Nut]

So which one of those sects of Christianity do NOT believe that God gets the credit for everything?

 

[just_me]

I get tired of these attention starved charlatans dishing out their false justifications for their personal biases.

Everyone has to make a living.

Scavenging is much of a living and people like this person scavenges off the hopes and fears of others. He shamelessly rides the backs of desperate people and runs them into the ground chasing the dreams he proclaims is right over the next hill. Trouble is over that hill is another and then another and yet another.

 

[funinspace]

So which one of those sects of Christianity do NOT believe that God gets the credit for everything?

Let me bring back what you originally said:

1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that.

The Christians I mentioned don't think like the above in general, any more than they think God selected the Patriots to win the Superbowl. That is just reality.

Have fun with your collection of Christian sock puppets...

 

[Gun Nut]

So which one of those sects of Christianity do NOT believe that God gets the credit for everything?

Let me bring back what you originally said:

1 in 4 church goers say that God selected Trump to be president. Historically, the "God did the thing I like" was a little closer to 100% than that.

The Christians I mentioned don't think like the above in general, any more than they think God selected the Patriots to win the Superbowl. That is just reality.

When you phrase it in a way that makes them look silly, then sure. But when you phrase it generically, like "Is this thing you like God's will, or completely and totally random - or the work of the Devil", which do you suppose they choose? They choose, "God did it and it is a blessing"... and then someone rephrases the survey after the fact to "God hand-chooses Trump", as opposed to "Christians don't think the universe is totally random".

Have fun with your collection of Christian sock puppets...

I don't mean to speak for others out of turn (if that is what you meant). Feel free to speak for what you know about... so I repeat the question... what sect of Christianity does not believe in God's dominance over over all things?