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Farmers who supported Trump having regrets

southernhybrid

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=47&pgtype=sectionfront

As for his promises about cracking down on illegal immigrants, many assumed Mr. Trump’s pledges were mostly just talk. But two weeks into his administration, Mr. Trump has signed executive orders that have upended the country’s immigration laws. Now farmers here are deeply alarmed about what the new policies could mean for their workers, most of whom are unauthorized, and the businesses that depend on them.

“Everything’s coming so quickly,” Mr. Marchini said. “We’re not loading people into buses or deporting them, that’s not happening yet.” As he looked out over a crew of workers bent over as they rifled through muddy leaves to find purple heads of radicchio, he said that as a businessman, Mr. Trump would know that farmers had invested millions of dollars into produce that is growing right now, and that not being able to pick and sell those crops would represent huge losses for the state economy. “I’m confident that he can grasp the magnitude and the anxiety of what’s happening now.”

Mr. Trump’s immigration policies could transform California’s Central Valley, a stretch of lowlands that extends from Sacramento to Bakersfield. Approximately 70 percent of all farmworkers here are living in the United States illegally, according to researchers at University of California, Davis. The impact could reverberate throughout the valley’s precarious economy, where agriculture is by far the largest industry. With 6.5 million people living in the valley, the fields in this state bring in $35 billion a year and provide more of the nation’s food than any other state.

Since there is overwhelming evidence that American workers don't want, or aren't even capable of performing the tasks that we depend on for much of our food, will we start having shortages of fresh produce or will Trump realize that his attack on undocumented workers could cause great damage to the country? Will he be willing to consider farm work visas like we had in the past or will he remain his stubborn self who never admits mistakes and leave American farms without enough workers to survive?
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=47&pgtype=sectionfront

As for his promises about cracking down on illegal immigrants, many assumed Mr. Trump’s pledges were mostly just talk. But two weeks into his administration, Mr. Trump has signed executive orders that have upended the country’s immigration laws. Now farmers here are deeply alarmed about what the new policies could mean for their workers, most of whom are unauthorized, and the businesses that depend on them.

“Everything’s coming so quickly,” Mr. Marchini said. “We’re not loading people into buses or deporting them, that’s not happening yet.” As he looked out over a crew of workers bent over as they rifled through muddy leaves to find purple heads of radicchio, he said that as a businessman, Mr. Trump would know that farmers had invested millions of dollars into produce that is growing right now, and that not being able to pick and sell those crops would represent huge losses for the state economy. “I’m confident that he can grasp the magnitude and the anxiety of what’s happening now.”

Mr. Trump’s immigration policies could transform California’s Central Valley, a stretch of lowlands that extends from Sacramento to Bakersfield. Approximately 70 percent of all farmworkers here are living in the United States illegally, according to researchers at University of California, Davis. The impact could reverberate throughout the valley’s precarious economy, where agriculture is by far the largest industry. With 6.5 million people living in the valley, the fields in this state bring in $35 billion a year and provide more of the nation’s food than any other state.

Since there is overwhelming evidence that American workers don't want, or aren't even capable of performing the tasks that we depend on for much of our food, will we start having shortages of fresh produce or will Trump realize that his attack on undocumented workers could cause great damage to the country? Will he be willing to consider farm work visas like we had in the past or will he remain his stubborn self who never admits mistakes and leave American farms without enough workers to survive?

Well, the bigger issue is exports. Trump's crazy trade policy will create trade wars. American farmers will lose hundreds of billions in exports. Dairy exports alone create 30,000 American jobs per year. But you're right, kicking out the migrant workers will hurt the farmers also!
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=47&pgtype=sectionfront

As for his promises about cracking down on illegal immigrants, many assumed Mr. Trump’s pledges were mostly just talk. But two weeks into his administration, Mr. Trump has signed executive orders that have upended the country’s immigration laws. Now farmers here are deeply alarmed about what the new policies could mean for their workers, most of whom are unauthorized, and the businesses that depend on them.

“Everything’s coming so quickly,” Mr. Marchini said. “We’re not loading people into buses or deporting them, that’s not happening yet.” As he looked out over a crew of workers bent over as they rifled through muddy leaves to find purple heads of radicchio, he said that as a businessman, Mr. Trump would know that farmers had invested millions of dollars into produce that is growing right now, and that not being able to pick and sell those crops would represent huge losses for the state economy. “I’m confident that he can grasp the magnitude and the anxiety of what’s happening now.”

Mr. Trump’s immigration policies could transform California’s Central Valley, a stretch of lowlands that extends from Sacramento to Bakersfield. Approximately 70 percent of all farmworkers here are living in the United States illegally, according to researchers at University of California, Davis. The impact could reverberate throughout the valley’s precarious economy, where agriculture is by far the largest industry. With 6.5 million people living in the valley, the fields in this state bring in $35 billion a year and provide more of the nation’s food than any other state.

Since there is overwhelming evidence that American workers don't want, or aren't even capable of performing the tasks that we depend on for much of our food, will we start having shortages of fresh produce or will Trump realize that his attack on undocumented workers could cause great damage to the country? Will he be willing to consider farm work visas like we had in the past or will he remain his stubborn self who never admits mistakes and leave American farms without enough workers to survive?

More nonsense from the New York Times.

If workers are needed, they can come on a work visa supported by a contract and protected in law with a minimum wage.

Undocumented means illegal and such workers undercut the opportunity for those who wish to come over legally with a visa and a contract. Pay people a little more and they spend a little more in the economy. This is how Europe and the USA prospered.

Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...c2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.59a99ed3a860

However, I would hope the emphasis should begin with convicted drug pushers, criminals and other illegals of their ilk, with no more amnesties.
 
Somewhat more general than the thread, and more about trade than immigration, but still relevant.

What is your professional opinion of Donald Trump's proposed economic policies, which clearly embrace neoliberalism and all sort of shenanigans for the rich but oppose global "free-trade" agreements, and what do you expect to happen when they collide with Ryan's austerity budget?

Mr. Trump's plan for American economic revival is still vague, but, as far as I can tell, it has two main planks -- making American corporations create more jobs [at] home and increasing infrastructural investments.

The first plank seems rather fanciful. He says that he will do it mainly by engaging in greater protectionism, but it won't work because of two reasons.

First, the US is bound by all sorts of international trade agreements -- the WTO, the NAFTA, and various bilateral free-trade agreements (with Korea, Australia, Singapore, etc.). Although you can push things in the protectionist direction on the margin even within this framework, it will be difficult for the US to slap extra tariffs that are big enough to bring American jobs back under the rules of these agreements. Mr. Trump's team says they will renegotiate these agreements, but that will take years, not months, and won't produce any visible result at least during the first term of Mr. Trump's presidency.

Second, even if large extra tariffs can somehow be imposed against international agreements, the structure of the US economy today is such that there will be huge resistance against these protectionist measures within the US. Many imports from countries like China and Mexico are things that are produced by -- or at least produced for -- American companies. When the price of iPhone and Nike trainers made in China or GM cars made in Mexico go up by 20 percent, 35 percent, not only American consumers but companies like Apple, Nike and GM will be intensely unhappy. But would this result in Apple or GM moving production back to the US? No, they will probably move it to Vietnam or Thailand, which is not hit by those tariffs.

The point is that, the hollowing out of American manufacturing industry has progressed in the contexts of (US-led) globalization of production and restructuring of the international trade system and cannot be reversed with simple protectionist measures. It will require a total rewriting of global trade rules and restructuring of the so-called global value chain.

Even at the domestic level, American economic revival will require far more radical measures than what the Trump administration is contemplating. It will require a systematic industrial policy that rebuilds the depleted productive capabilities of the US economy, ranging from worker skills, managerial competences, industrial research base and modernised infrastructure. To be successful, such industrial policy will have to be backed up by a radical redesigning of the financial system, so that more "patient capital" is made available for long-term-oriented investments and more talented people come to work in the industrial sector, rather than going into investment banking or foreign exchange trading.

The second plank of Mr. Trump's strategy for the revival of the US economy is investment in infrastructure.

As mentioned above, the improvement in infrastructure is an ingredient in a genuine strategy of American economic renewal. However, as you suggest in your question, this may meet resistance from fiscal conservatives in the Republican-dominated Congress. It will be interesting to watch how this pans out, but my bigger worry is that Mr. Trump is likely to encourage "wrong" kinds of infrastructural investments -- that is, those related to real estate (his natural territory), rather than those related to industrial development. This not only will fail to contribute to the renewal of the US economy but it may also contribute to creating real estate bubbles, which were an important cause behind the 2008 global financial crisis.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/it...al-capitalism-an-interview-with-ha-joon-chang
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=47&pgtype=sectionfront



Since there is overwhelming evidence that American workers don't want, or aren't even capable of performing the tasks that we depend on for much of our food, will we start having shortages of fresh produce or will Trump realize that his attack on undocumented workers could cause great damage to the country? Will he be willing to consider farm work visas like we had in the past or will he remain his stubborn self who never admits mistakes and leave American farms without enough workers to survive?

More nonsense from the New York Times.

If workers are needed, they can come on a work visa supported by a contract and protected in law with a minimum wage.

Undocumented means illegal and such workers undercut the opportunity for those who wish to come over legally with a visa and a contract. Pay people a little more and they spend a little more in the economy. This is how Europe and the USA prospered.

Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...c2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.59a99ed3a860

However, I would hope the emphasis should begin with convicted drug pushers, criminals and other illegals of their ilk, with no more amnesties.

Farmers that aren't corporate are already operating on a marginal basis. Increasing their overhead will drive many of them into the red. This is why they employ illegal immigrants.
 
The good news is farmers (and Internet forummers) with the knowledge and foresight to see this coming can make profits in the agricultural commodity markets that would make Hillary Clinton blush.

Time to get long corn futures sheeple!
 
More nonsense from the New York Times.

If workers are needed, they can come on a work visa supported by a contract and protected in law with a minimum wage.
Nonsense. Farm workers are exempt from the minimum wage in the US (http://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp).
Undocumented means illegal and such workers undercut the opportunity for those who wish to come over legally with a visa and a contract. Pay people a little more and they spend a little more in the economy. This is how Europe and the USA prospered.
What makes you believe that farmers - especially small farmers - offer contracts, especially to those yet to arrive in the country?
Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Nonsense. The USA has a long history of firms and industries running sweatshops, both domestically and abroad.
 
More nonsense from the New York Times.

If workers are needed, they can come on a work visa supported by a contract and protected in law with a minimum wage.

Hahahahahaha! Oh good one.
1) Nobody is going to do the lengthy paperwork
2) Undocumented immigrants are guaranteed minimum wage (but farm labor minimum wage is lower than for other jobs so don't expect locals to take them).

Undocumented means illegal and such workers undercut the opportunity for those who wish to come over legally with a visa and a contract. Pay people a little more and they spend a little more in the economy. This is how Europe and the USA prospered.
Few immigrants are willing to work farm jobs like these. They can get big city jobs that teach them a skill.

Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.
Farm labor has a long history of being exploitative here. CNN and other outlets are covering the raids.
 
Well, here's hoping those morons go out of business and starve to death in the street. It would be nice to see someone face the consequences of their actions.
 
Since there is overwhelming evidence that American workers don't want, or aren't even capable of performing the tasks that we depend on for much of our food, will we start having shortages of fresh produce or will Trump realize that his attack on undocumented workers could cause great damage to the country? Will he be willing to consider farm work visas like we had in the past or will he remain his stubborn self who never admits mistakes and leave American farms without enough workers to survive?

Trump is unlikely to realize anything on his own. He doesn't see it as an "attack on undocumented workers" at all. If his rhetoric is to be believed, he sees illegal immigrants as primarily rapists, drug dealers, and otherwise bad hombres who need to be rounded up and shipped off. It is hard to tell exactly since his gray matter is encased in a protective coating of bullshit, but it appears he actually thinks there are Americans waiting to rush back into the fields and pick crops once the few non-rapist Mexicans are kicked out.

Damage to the country? Impossible! Everything he does will Make America Great Again!

He might be swayed when the corporate farming outfits and the "big ag" lobby step in and inform him that he's fucking their business model six ways to Sunday, but again, he's not one to admit mistakes. Fortunately he's not the one with all the power. The rubber hits the road with enforcement of his policies, and the bold stroke of a pen isn't going to pay for the wall or the resources needed to round up all the workers. That money has to come from Congress, and our duly elected pigs will be much more amenable to pressures from those who fill the trough with slop.
 
Hahahahahaha! Oh good one.
1) Nobody is going to do the lengthy paperwork
2) Undocumented immigrants are guaranteed minimum wage (but farm labor minimum wage is lower than for other jobs so don't expect locals to take them).

Undocumented means illegal and such workers undercut the opportunity for those who wish to come over legally with a visa and a contract. Pay people a little more and they spend a little more in the economy. This is how Europe and the USA prospered.
Few immigrants are willing to work farm jobs like these. They can get big city jobs that teach them a skill.

Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.
Farm labor has a long history of being exploitative here. CNN and other outlets are covering the raids.

What's so difficult. A passport, and a contract of employment. In the Philippines an extension of visa takes a few minutes including a Police Bureau check.
The Employer meanwhile has entered the details onto a US Labour Dept Database which it can check with the Mexican data bases to see if the passport is real and there is no criminal history
This happens in other countries.
It may take a little while to set up.
 
Hahahahahaha! Oh good one.
1) Nobody is going to do the lengthy paperwork
2) Undocumented immigrants are guaranteed minimum wage (but farm labor minimum wage is lower than for other jobs so don't expect locals to take them).

Few immigrants are willing to work farm jobs like these. They can get big city jobs that teach them a skill.

Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.
Farm labor has a long history of being exploitative here. CNN and other outlets are covering the raids.

What's so difficult. A passport, and a contract of employment. In the Philippines an extension of visa takes a few minutes including a Police Bureau check.
The Employer meanwhile has entered the details onto a US Labour Dept Database which it can check with the Mexican data bases to see if the passport is real and there is no criminal history
We already have a green card program, it is quite out of date, and seriously insufficient. You would know that if you had a clue about the US.

This happens in other countries.
It may take a little while to set up.
The right wing has spent a decade plus making villains out of brown people from south of us. You might as well say it may take a while for evangelicals to accept gay pastors. Any discussion of practical updates to the existing green program would be DOA with the Repugs today. And Don the Con never talked about either. You would know that if you had a clue about the US.
 
Nonsense. Farm workers are exempt from the minimum wage in the US (http://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp).
Undocumented means illegal and such workers undercut the opportunity for those who wish to come over legally with a visa and a contract. Pay people a little more and they spend a little more in the economy. This is how Europe and the USA prospered.
What makes you believe that farmers - especially small farmers - offer contracts, especially to those yet to arrive in the country?
Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American
Nonsense. The USA has a long history of firms and industries running sweatshops, both domestically and abroad.

I mentioned a minimum wage which is based on a particular industry but could also be decided by the government.

Using the Hong Kong model this is a minimum set for what a worker normally earns. It may involve government.
A works contract can be given to workers outside of the USA. I do this all the time when I work outside the UK.
I am then given a temporary visa which allows me to visit the host country.
While I am there a visa is processed very quickly. The extra I normally need (China UAE) would be a medical.

As I said sweat shops are Un-American.
At one time US industry said it couldn't afford to pay wage demands but after the war wages were quite good in many sectors and the US boomed.

The US needs to consider its legal workers many of whom are in the United Farm Workers of America (UFW) and who have campaigned and successfully won pay rises and better condition.

http://nfwm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/UFW-Campaign-Packet-9.29.14.pdf
 
I mentioned a minimum wage which is based on a particular industry but could also be decided by the government.
There is no federal minimum wage for farm worker. What the gov't could do is irrelevant to what our government is doing.
Using the Hong Kong model this is a minimum set for what a worker normally earns. It may involve government.
A works contract can be given to workers outside of the USA. I do this all the time when I work outside the UK.
What the gov't could do is irrelevant to what our government is doing.
I am then given a temporary visa which allows me to visit the host country.
While I am there a visa is processed very quickly. The extra I normally need (China UAE) would be a medical.
Irrelevant and boring.
As I said sweat shops are Un-American.
And US history shows you are wrong.
At one time US industry said it couldn't afford to pay wage demands but after the war wages were quite good in many sectors and the US boomed.
After WWII, the US, Canada and Australia basically had the only intact and functioning modern economies in the world, so they were producing for most of the world. Your example is truly inapt and inept.

Whether you like it or not, Trump's actions are harming the farm industry by cutting off its labor supply and reducing its exports. No amount of smoke-blowing bs can change that fact.
 
Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American


Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.




Moonies don't own the Washington Post. It has a better track record on the facts than you do.
 
Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American


Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.




Moonies don't own the Washington Post. It has a better track record on the facts than you do.



You've gotta admit, though, that it is hilarious a devotee' of L. Ron Hubbard used the "owned by a cult leader" angle to try and discredit the Post.
 
Moonies don't own the Washington Post. It has a better track record on the facts than you do.



You've gotta admit, though, that it is hilarious a devotee' of L. Ron Hubbard used the "owned by a cult leader" angle to try and discredit the Post.
The Washington Times, a conservative rag, is the Moonie paper. Jeff Bezos of Amazon owns the Post.
 
Allowing farmers to run sweatshops seems rather un-American


Assuming the report is true from the Washington (Moonie) Post suggesting some raids did take place.




Moonies don't own the Washington Post. It has a better track record on the facts than you do.

Actually I mistook this for the Washington Times. Feeling better now?
 
Moonies don't own the Washington Post. It has a better track record on the facts than you do.



You've gotta admit, though, that it is hilarious a devotee' of L. Ron Hubbard used the "owned by a cult leader" angle to try and discredit the Post.

Actually quoting something isn't discrediting. I would never purposely say anything demeaning about the Washington Rag.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no federal minimum wage for farm worker. What the gov't could do is irrelevant to what our government is doing.
Using the Hong Kong model this is a minimum set for what a worker normally earns. It may involve government.
A works contract can be given to workers outside of the USA. I do this all the time when I work outside the UK.
What the gov't could do is irrelevant to what our government is doing.
I am then given a temporary visa which allows me to visit the host country.
While I am there a visa is processed very quickly. The extra I normally need (China UAE) would be a medical.
Irrelevant and boring.
As I said sweat shops are Un-American.
And US history shows you are wrong.
At one time US industry said it couldn't afford to pay wage demands but after the war wages were quite good in many sectors and the US boomed.
After WWII, the US, Canada and Australia basically had the only intact and functioning modern economies in the world, so they were producing for most of the world. Your example is truly inapt and inept.

Whether you like it or not, Trump's actions are harming the farm industry by cutting off its labor supply and reducing its exports. No amount of smoke-blowing bs can change that fact.

So keeping people on borderline poverty in sweatshops as second class beings is okay. The Farm Workers Unions would disagree.
 
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