FBI recommends no charges against Mrs Clinton: let the accusations begin. Will this help or hurt HRC?

[ksen]

I don't think that part is accurate.

My reading of his statement suggests none of the data when she sent it was so marked at the time she sent it. He distinguishes classified by responsible authorities which often occurs after it is seen by top officials but before it is finalized as classified by the responsible agent.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...lary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.

My reading of Comey's statement is that the 110 were properly classified at the time they were sent. There were another 2,000 that were classified at a later date.

So she may have played a bit fast and loose as the state Department seems to often do, but. she apparently acted within the existing culture.

Not sure that should be an acceptable excuse or particularly laudable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So she may have played a bit fast and loose as the state Department seems to often do, but. she apparently acted within the existing culture.

Not sure that should be an acceptable excuse or particularly laudable.

It shouldn't be. However, if this were a Republican Admin, this wouldn't even be in the news. Clinton didn't act in the appropriate matter. However, this is DC and the rules do apply a bit differently to those at the top of the chain, kind of like how exposing a NOC-List CIA agent wasn't even against the law if the White House did it.

What Clinton did is disappointing, unethical, but not surprising and not entirely worth losing sleep over.

 

[Sea of red]

Richard Nixon breaks into a DNC compound, lies about it, and walks away with a pardon. Ronald Reagan orchestrates a scheme to network money to pirates and never even gets questioned - when it was fucking obvious he was in on it. George Bush is literally caught torturing people and breaking all kinds of laws, and the right didn't blink an eye. Oh, and lets see: Iraq War, Scooter Libby, Bain Capital, all of the Reagan scandals.

Clinton lies about some emails that we have NO evidence contain anything criminal, and the right calls for her head?

I'm not saying Clinton isn't corrupt but this idea that she's the worst criminal to run for office, is beyond dramatic to say the least, and it's completely partisan.

 

[ksen]

Not sure that should be an acceptable excuse or particularly laudable.

It shouldn't be. However, if this were a Republican Admin, this wouldn't even be in the news. Clinton didn't act in the appropriate matter. However, this is DC and the rules do apply a bit differently to those at the top of the chain, kind of like how exposing a NOC-List CIA agent wasn't even against the law if the White House did it.

What Clinton did is disappointing, unethical, but not surprising and not entirely worth losing sleep over.

No, probably not.

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.

But when you have the director of the FBI saying he has evidence that laws may have been violated but no one would actually prosecute that kind of case then the rise of anti-establishment, anti-government sentiment as seen in the rise of Trump or even the successful Brexit vote is a little more understandable as more and more people get fed up with a system that works very well for you if you're appropriately connected but not well at all for you if you aren't.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The idea that Petraeus did less is nonsensical. He willingly handed over secured information (though I don't believe he was convicted because he settled on a smaller charge).

It shouldn't be. However, if this were a Republican Admin, this wouldn't even be in the news. Clinton didn't act in the appropriate matter. However, this is DC and the rules do apply a bit differently to those at the top of the chain, kind of like how exposing a NOC-List CIA agent wasn't even against the law if the White House did it.

What Clinton did is disappointing, unethical, but not surprising and not entirely worth losing sleep over.

No, probably not.

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.

But when you have the director of the FBI saying he has evidence that laws may have been violated but no one would actually prosecute that kind of case then the rise of anti-establishment, anti-government sentiment as seen in the rise of Trump or even the successful Brexit vote is a little more understandable as more and more people get fed up with a system that works very well for you if you're appropriately connected but not well at all for you if you aren't.

If this is what gets people to shit their pants, instead of massively illegal metadata spy networks across the Internet, then I don't particularly give a fuck what they think. They are idiots for shitting their pants over this. Much much worse things have happened, under the explicit direction of the Executive Branch (see post just before yours). The bar has been set terribly low.

 

[ksen]

Richard Nixon breaks into a DNC compound, lies about it, and walks away with a pardon. Ronald Reagan orchestrates a scheme to network money to pirates and never even gets questioned - when it was fucking obvious he was in on it. George Bush is literally caught torturing people and breaking all kinds of laws, and the right didn't blink an eye. Oh, and lets see: Iraq War, Scooter Libby, Bain Capital, all of the Reagan scandals.

So what? Since when has pointing out how bad someone else is been a valid defense for your own wrong-doing?

Clinton lies about some emails that we have NO evidence contain anything criminal, and the right calls for her head?

FBI Director Comey clearly says they do have evidence but not enough that a prosecutor would actually prosecute it.

I'm not saying Clinton isn't corrupt but this idea that she's the worst criminal to run for office, is beyond dramatic to say the least, and it's completely partisan.

It's a Republican FBI Director that didn't recommend prosecution . . . so par for the course?

 

[Sea of red]

So what? Since when has pointing out how bad someone else is been a valid defense for your own wrong-doing?

What goes around comes around in the world - especially in politics. This investigation was just a show to satisfy the right-wing. Had it been a GOPer there wouldn't have even been an investigation.

FBI Director Comey clearly says they do have evidence but not enough that a prosecutor would actually prosecute it.

Such as? All we've seen evidence for so far is that the emails were deleted and violated the law in that regard. There is no evidence Clinton had anything to do with it, and no smoking gun that anything about the emails was criminal. Is she corrupt? Yeah. But no worse than any other politician, and certainly no worse than Trump - whom has a lot of corporate skeletons.

It's a Republican FBI Director that didn't recommend prosecution . . . so par for the course?

Eggzactly! If there was actual evidence you can bet she'd be prosecuted - the DOJ leans to the right, as evidence in it's history of who does and doesn't get prosecuted. This was just one last attempt by the elephants to keep Clinton from the presidency; they know they don't have a candidate worth a shit.

 

[ksen]

The idea that Petraeus did less is nonsensical. He willingly handed over secured information (though I don't believe he was convicted because he settled on a smaller charge).

I never brought up Petraeus so . . . ok I guess?

If this is what gets people to shit their pants, instead of massively illegal metadata spy networks across the Internet, then I don't particularly give a fuck what they think. They are idiots for shitting their pants over this. Much much worse things have happened, under the explicit direction of the Executive Branch (see post just before yours). The bar has been set terribly low.

It's not so much shitting their pants as much as just another example of the system protecting its own. Just another piece of straw on the camel's back.

 

[fromderinside]

My reading of his statement suggests none of the data when she sent it was so marked at the time she sent it. He distinguishes classified by responsible authorities which often occurs after it is seen by top officials but before it is finalized as classified by the responsible agent.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...lary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.

My reading of Comey's statement is that the 110 were properly classified at the time they were sent. There were another 2,000 that were classified at a later date.

So she may have played a bit fast and loose as the state Department seems to often do, but. she apparently acted within the existing culture.

Not sure that should be an acceptable excuse or particularly laudable.

What you reference fits within my characterization of his comments and her comments. No its not laudable. Its ordinary. That is a damn sight better than the outright falsehoods used by her presumptive opponent for office.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Mr. Comey rebuked Mrs. Clinton as being “extremely careless” in using a personal email address and server for sensitive information, declaring that an ordinary government official could have faced administrative sanction for such conduct.

To warrant a criminal charge, Mr. Comey said, there had to be evidence that Mrs. Clinton intentionally sent or received classified information — something that the F.B.I. did not find. “Our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,” he said at a news conference.

Being cleared of criminal charges helps. Being called extremely careless by an FBI investigation doesn't. Do you really want an extremely careless president? Oh wait, its her or Trump, you are fucked either way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If this is what gets people to shit their pants, instead of massively illegal metadata spy networks across the Internet, then I don't particularly give a fuck what they think. They are idiots for shitting their pants over this. Much much worse things have happened, under the explicit direction of the Executive Branch (see post just before yours). The bar has been set terribly low.

It's not so much shitting their pants as much as just another example of the system protecting its own. Just another piece of straw on the camel's back.

The camel died from complications of a broken back right after the Ford pardon.

This is one of the most overblown scandals of the 21st Century. It shouldn't have happened, it should have stopped immediately as clearly she wasn't using a Government account, it is disappointing, unethical, but Jebus! Is this going to be the straw that will be used to change DC forever and make it a fair place where there is no wrong doing ever again? No one went to jail for Iraq (100,000+ dead Iraqi civilians in one of the US's worst foreign policy actions ever) or the '08 crash (that tilted the Globe's economy), but we are going to get all uppity over Clinton have a private email server? This is going to start the revolution?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Mr. Comey rebuked Mrs. Clinton as being “extremely careless” in using a personal email address and server for sensitive information, declaring that an ordinary government official could have faced administrative sanction for such conduct.

To warrant a criminal charge, Mr. Comey said, there had to be evidence that Mrs. Clinton intentionally sent or received classified information — something that the F.B.I. did not find. “Our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,” he said at a news conference.

Being cleared of criminal charges helps. Being called extremely careless by an FBI investigation doesn't. Do you really want an extremely careless president? Oh wait, its her or Trump, you are fucked either way.

Moore Coulter.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The Clinton Conspiracy industry will have to work harder.

 

[ksen]

It's not so much shitting their pants as much as just another example of the system protecting its own. Just another piece of straw on the camel's back.

The camel died from complications of a broken back right after the Ford pardon.

This is one of the most overblown scandals of the 21st Century. It shouldn't have happened, it should have stopped immediately as clearly she wasn't using a Government account, it is disappointing, unethical, but Jebus! Is this going to be the straw that will be used to change DC forever and make it a fair place where there is no wrong doing ever again? No one went to jail for Iraq (100,000+ dead Iraqi civilians in one of the US's worst foreign policy actions ever)

Which Clinton voted for.

or the '08 crash (that tilted the Globe's economy),

Which Bill Clinton helped enable by signing the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Minor quibble though, the '08 crash didn't tilt the global economy. The crash happened because the globe was already tilted.

but we are going to get all uppity over Clinton have a private email server? This is going to start the revolution?

I didn't say it would start anything. And I'm not getting uppity about anything. I simply said it's an example of the system protecting its own and that the rise of anti-establishmentism shouldn't be that surprising as more and more people see the system working for the powerful while continually discarding the weak.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Being cleared of criminal charges helps. Being called extremely careless by an FBI investigation doesn't. Do you really want an extremely careless president? Oh wait, its her or Trump, you are fucked either way.

Moore Coulter.

You're right. One was being investigated by the FBI for a felony and the other is Donald Trump. Actually on second thought, maybe not so different.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

She is the cabinet level secretary in charge of FBi among others. That politics (and he tet-a-tete with Bill) did not influence the decision is a fairy tale. That's why we need a truly independent investigation into Hillary. I hear Ken Starr is available again.

Okay, so the investigation was full force, going to charge Hillary Clinton until Bill Clinton met with the Attorney General, near the very end of the investigation?

Everyone always talks about just how astoundingly charming Bill is. It still takes everyone by surprise when they see him in action, though.

 

[ZiprHead]

She is the cabinet level secretary in charge of FBi among others. That politics (and he tet-a-tete with Bill) did not influence the decision is a fairy tale. That's why we need a truly independent investigation into Hillary. I hear Ken Starr is available again.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The camel died from complications of a broken back right after the Ford pardon.

This is one of the most overblown scandals of the 21st Century. It shouldn't have happened, it should have stopped immediately as clearly she wasn't using a Government account, it is disappointing, unethical, but Jebus! Is this going to be the straw that will be used to change DC forever and make it a fair place where there is no wrong doing ever again? No one went to jail for Iraq (100,000+ dead Iraqi civilians in one of the US's worst foreign policy actions ever)

Which Clinton voted for.

or the '08 crash (that tilted the Globe's economy),

Which Bill Clinton helped enable by signing the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Yeah, you aren't seeing me singing the holy praises of Hillary Clinton. I didn't particularly like Bill Clinton either. It sucks that this is the best we can do for the Democrat party, to elect right-leaning moderates who at best nominate decent Justices to SCOTUS, but otherwise... not so progressive.

but we are going to get all uppity over Clinton have a private email server? This is going to start the revolution?

I didn't say it would start anything. And I'm not getting uppity about anything. I simply said it's an example of the system protecting its own and that the rise of anti-establishmentism shouldn't be that surprising as more and more people see the system working for the powerful while continually discarding the weak.

The rise of anti-establishmentism is more about people against minorities and shit. #BLM movement is toothless and no one cares. It hasn't made a dent in anything. The Occupy movement, people mocked and absolutely no change.

People don't like immigrants, gays, want to turn the clock back to when *those people* didn't have rights, etc... -> Brexit, rise of far right-wing parties in Europe, Trump candidacy, etc...

This anti-establishment stuff isn't about the system protecting it's own... it is about the establishment not giving the majority group within a nation all the power and the right to exclude people they don't like from the system.

 

[MarkW]

Today,

.Mr. Comey rebuked Mrs. Clinton as being “extremely careless” in using a personal email address and server for sensitive information, declaring that an ordinary government official could have faced administrative sanction for such conduct.

To warrant a criminal charge, Mr. Comey said, there had to be evidence that Mrs. Clinton intentionally sent or received classified information — something that the F.B.I. did not find. “Our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case,” he said at a news conference.

(source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi-email-comey.html.

Of course, this will not stop the Hillary haters from their accusations of conspiracies or cover-ups or whatever, but do you think this ends up helping, hurting or doing nothing for Mrs. Clinton campaign for the POTUS?

I think the only way this issue was going to sway voters who were not already dead-set against Clinton was if she were actually indicted. Short of that, it's not going to affect things much.

 

[ksen]

Yeah, you aren't seeing me singing the holy praises of Hillary Clinton. I didn't particularly like Bill Clinton either. It sucks that this is the best we can do for the Democrat party, to elect right-leaning moderates who at best nominate decent Justices to SCOTUS, but otherwise... not so progressive.

I'm with you buddy. :commiserate:

but we are going to get all uppity over Clinton have a private email server? This is going to start the revolution?

I didn't say it would start anything. And I'm not getting uppity about anything. I simply said it's an example of the system protecting its own and that the rise of anti-establishmentism shouldn't be that surprising as more and more people see the system working for the powerful while continually discarding the weak.

The rise of anti-establishmentism is more about people against minorities and shit. #BLM movement is toothless and no one cares. It hasn't made a dent in anything. The Occupy movement, people mocked and absolutely no change.

People don't like immigrants, gays, want to turn the clock back to when *those people* didn't have rights, etc... -> Brexit, rise of far right-wing parties in Europe, Trump candidacy, etc...

This anti-establishment stuff isn't about the system protecting it's own... it is about the establishment not giving the majority group within a nation all the power and the right to exclude people they don't like from the system.

That's one way it's expressing itself. The other is the rise of politicians like Sanders and Corbyn. I just hope the Sanders/Corbyn side is able to win out over the Trump/Farage side.