Female Privilege or Femme Fatale?

[Arctish]

Tidbit?


As in, yummy treat?

No, as in "a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information."

Holmes tried the Hail Mary pass of 'yes, I defrauded people of billions, but I'm a sad rape girl so it's not my fault'

Her defense argument was that she was deceived about the company's financial models by Balwani, who was both her boyfriend and the president and chief operating officer of Theranos at the time, that he was controlling both at work and at home, and subjected her to intimate partner abuse. Part of that defense was the contention she was particularly vulnerable when they first hooked up while she was in college due to her youth, inexperience, and having been abused before.

Her defense wasn't persuasive enough to get her completely off the hook for the Theranos financial debacle but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped or that her alleged rape is an interesting 'tidbit'.

 

[Metaphor]

Tidbit?


As in, yummy treat?

No, as in "a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information."

Holmes tried the Hail Mary pass of 'yes, I defrauded people of billions, but I'm a sad rape girl so it's not my fault'

Her defense argument was that she was deceived about the company's financial models by Balwani, who was both her boyfriend and the president and chief operating officer of Theranos at the time, that he was controlling both at work and at home, and subjected her to intimate partner abuse. Part of that defense was the contention she was particularly vulnerable when they first hooked up while she was in college due to her youth, inexperience, and having been abused before.

Her defense wasn't persuasive enough to get her completely off the hook for the Theranos financial debacle but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped or that her alleged rape is an interesting 'tidbit'.

Her alleged rape isn't the interesting tidbit.

What's interesting is the social psychology: she attempted to leverage it as a last-minute tactic to soften the jurors (nothing in Holmes' testimony up until that point indicated she was going to say something like this).

I find the tactic despicable, but it was probably effective nonetheless.

Unfortunately, cameras were not allowed inside the court room so I can't verify if Holmes affected her usual low speaking voice during her testimony, or whether she chose a tactic of adopting a higher range.

 

[Arctish]

Tidbit?


As in, yummy treat?

No, as in "a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information."

Holmes tried the Hail Mary pass of 'yes, I defrauded people of billions, but I'm a sad rape girl so it's not my fault'

Her defense argument was that she was deceived about the company's financial models by Balwani, who was both her boyfriend and the president and chief operating officer of Theranos at the time, that he was controlling both at work and at home, and subjected her to intimate partner abuse. Part of that defense was the contention she was particularly vulnerable when they first hooked up while she was in college due to her youth, inexperience, and having been abused before.

Her defense wasn't persuasive enough to get her completely off the hook for the Theranos financial debacle but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped or that her alleged rape is an interesting 'tidbit'.

Her alleged rape isn't the interesting tidbit.

What's interesting is the social psychology: she attempted to leverage it as a last-minute tactic to soften the jurors (nothing in Holmes' testimony up until that point indicated she was going to say something like this).

That wasn't apparent in your post. All you said was that she said she'd been raped and that was the reason she's poured herself into building up Theranos. You said nothing about psychology or the jury, making it appear it was the alleged rape you were calling a tidbit.

I find the tactic despicable, but it was probably effective nonetheless.

A defense team trying to gin up sympathy for their client is despicable? You must have zero tolerance for the justice system your country and mine inherited from the British.

Unfortunately, cameras were not allowed inside the court room so I can't verify if Holmes affected her usual low speaking voice during her testimony, or whether she chose a tactic of adopting a higher range.

Ah, so that's it. She's a woman who affected the dress and manner of speaking of a man whenever it was advantageous and that bothers you.

ETA: just in case someone forgot what I was arguing earlier in this thread, I believe Ms. Holmes was rightfully found guilty of fraud. I don't think she realized at first that her company couldn't deliver on its promises, but I believe she knew at some point before the information leaked to the press and could have acted sooner to limit the damage to the investors.

 

[Metaphor]

Tidbit?


As in, yummy treat?

No, as in "a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information."

Holmes tried the Hail Mary pass of 'yes, I defrauded people of billions, but I'm a sad rape girl so it's not my fault'

Her defense argument was that she was deceived about the company's financial models by Balwani, who was both her boyfriend and the president and chief operating officer of Theranos at the time, that he was controlling both at work and at home, and subjected her to intimate partner abuse. Part of that defense was the contention she was particularly vulnerable when they first hooked up while she was in college due to her youth, inexperience, and having been abused before.

Her defense wasn't persuasive enough to get her completely off the hook for the Theranos financial debacle but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped or that her alleged rape is an interesting 'tidbit'.

Her alleged rape isn't the interesting tidbit.

What's interesting is the social psychology: she attempted to leverage it as a last-minute tactic to soften the jurors (nothing in Holmes' testimony up until that point indicated she was going to say something like this).

That wasn't apparent in your post. All you said was that she said she'd been raped and that was the reason she's poured herself into building up Theranos.

No: I said she claimed those things.

You said nothing about psychology or the jury, making it appear it was the alleged rape you were calling a tidbit.

That's true, but the social psychology of the situation was indeed what made it interesting to me.

I find the tactic despicable, but it was probably effective nonetheless.

A defense team trying to gin up sympathy for their client is despicable?

Holmes invoking the spectre of rape to reduce her culpability is despicable, yes.

You must have zero tolerance for the justice system your country and mine inherited from the British.

That jurors have prejudices that are not easily controlled for is a problem, yes, though I reject your claim that means I have 'zero tolerance' for adversarial criminal justice proceedings.

Unfortunately, cameras were not allowed inside the court room so I can't verify if Holmes affected her usual low speaking voice during her testimony, or whether she chose a tactic of adopting a higher range.

Ah, so that's it. She's a woman who affected the dress and manner of speaking of a man whenever it was advantageous and that bothers you.

What is "it", and when did I claim it "bothered" me?

I found her apeing of Steve Jobs and her voice affectation amusing.

I find her criminally fraudulent behaviour and her sad rape girl Hail Mary play despicable.

 

[Arctish]

Tidbit?


As in, yummy treat?

No, as in "a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information."

Holmes tried the Hail Mary pass of 'yes, I defrauded people of billions, but I'm a sad rape girl so it's not my fault'

Her defense argument was that she was deceived about the company's financial models by Balwani, who was both her boyfriend and the president and chief operating officer of Theranos at the time, that he was controlling both at work and at home, and subjected her to intimate partner abuse. Part of that defense was the contention she was particularly vulnerable when they first hooked up while she was in college due to her youth, inexperience, and having been abused before.

Her defense wasn't persuasive enough to get her completely off the hook for the Theranos financial debacle but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped or that her alleged rape is an interesting 'tidbit'.

Her alleged rape isn't the interesting tidbit.

What's interesting is the social psychology: she attempted to leverage it as a last-minute tactic to soften the jurors (nothing in Holmes' testimony up until that point indicated she was going to say something like this).

That wasn't apparent in your post. All you said was that she said she'd been raped and that was the reason she's poured herself into building up Theranos.

No: I said she claimed those things.

You said nothing about psychology or the jury, making it appear it was the alleged rape you were calling a tidbit.

That's true, but the social psychology of the situation was indeed what made it interesting to me.

I find the tactic despicable, but it was probably effective nonetheless.

A defense team trying to gin up sympathy for their client is despicable?

Holmes invoking the spectre of rape to reduce her culpability is despicable, yes.

You must have zero tolerance for the justice system your country and mine inherited from the British.

That jurors have prejudices that are not easily controlled for is a problem, yes, though I reject your claim that means I have 'zero tolerance' for adversarial criminal justice proceedings.

Unfortunately, cameras were not allowed inside the court room so I can't verify if Holmes affected her usual low speaking voice during her testimony, or whether she chose a tactic of adopting a higher range.

Ah, so that's it. She's a woman who affected the dress and manner of speaking of a man whenever it was advantageous and that bothers you.

What is "it", and when did I claim it "bothered" me?

I found her apeing of Steve Jobs and her voice affectation amusing.

I find her criminally fraudulent behaviour and her sad rape girl Hail Mary play despicable.

I find her criminally fraudulent behavior despicable, too. I believe the guilty verdict was well supported and well earned.

I surmised that Holmes modulating her voice in business settings to sound more like a male bothered you because of your posting history. You're pretty strident in your criticism of females who try to look, act, or sound like males, or who intrude on what you believe should be males-only spaces.

 

[Metaphor]

Tidbit?


As in, yummy treat?

No, as in "a small and particularly interesting item of gossip or information."

Holmes tried the Hail Mary pass of 'yes, I defrauded people of billions, but I'm a sad rape girl so it's not my fault'

Her defense argument was that she was deceived about the company's financial models by Balwani, who was both her boyfriend and the president and chief operating officer of Theranos at the time, that he was controlling both at work and at home, and subjected her to intimate partner abuse. Part of that defense was the contention she was particularly vulnerable when they first hooked up while she was in college due to her youth, inexperience, and having been abused before.

Her defense wasn't persuasive enough to get her completely off the hook for the Theranos financial debacle but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped or that her alleged rape is an interesting 'tidbit'.

Her alleged rape isn't the interesting tidbit.

What's interesting is the social psychology: she attempted to leverage it as a last-minute tactic to soften the jurors (nothing in Holmes' testimony up until that point indicated she was going to say something like this).

That wasn't apparent in your post. All you said was that she said she'd been raped and that was the reason she's poured herself into building up Theranos.

No: I said she claimed those things.

You said nothing about psychology or the jury, making it appear it was the alleged rape you were calling a tidbit.

That's true, but the social psychology of the situation was indeed what made it interesting to me.

I find the tactic despicable, but it was probably effective nonetheless.

A defense team trying to gin up sympathy for their client is despicable?

Holmes invoking the spectre of rape to reduce her culpability is despicable, yes.

You must have zero tolerance for the justice system your country and mine inherited from the British.

That jurors have prejudices that are not easily controlled for is a problem, yes, though I reject your claim that means I have 'zero tolerance' for adversarial criminal justice proceedings.

Unfortunately, cameras were not allowed inside the court room so I can't verify if Holmes affected her usual low speaking voice during her testimony, or whether she chose a tactic of adopting a higher range.

Ah, so that's it. She's a woman who affected the dress and manner of speaking of a man whenever it was advantageous and that bothers you.

What is "it", and when did I claim it "bothered" me?

I found her apeing of Steve Jobs and her voice affectation amusing.

I find her criminally fraudulent behaviour and her sad rape girl Hail Mary play despicable.

I find her criminally fraudulent behavior despicable, too. I believe the guilty verdict was well supported and well earned.

I surmised that Holmes modulating her voice in business settings to sound more like a male bothered you because of your posting history. You're pretty strident in your criticism of females who try to look, act, or sound like males, or who intrude on what you believe should be males-only spaces.

I am not somehow bothered about adult females who try to look, act, or sound like males. If you want to ape a sex class that you don't and cannot ever belong to, it's no skin off my nose. I mean, I feel sad for them, but I don't feel like it is somehow an assault on me.

I do care that people demand access to sex-segregated spaces where they do not qualify, I do care that people have decided sex is irrelevant and that a thought in your head is the most and only relevant thing, I do care about the attempts by the State and society to command my speech and demand I utter things I do not believe, and I do care about the phantasias engaged in by gender ideologists that affect me negatively in my work life.

 

[Arctish]

I am not somehow bothered about adult females who try to look, act, or sound like males. If you want to ape a sex class that you don't and cannot ever belong to, it's no skin off my nose. I mean, I feel sad for them, but I don't feel like it is somehow an assault on me.

It's interesting that you use the word 'ape' to describe it, and say you feel sad for those doing it, while claiming it doesn't bother you.

You sound like you're bothered. The hostility and condescension are palpable.

I do care that people demand access to sex-segregated spaces where they do not qualify, I do care that people have decided sex is irrelevant and that a thought in your head is the most and only relevant thing, I do care about the attempts by the State and society to command my speech and demand I utter things I do not believe, and I do care about the phantasias engaged in by gender ideologists that affect me negatively in my work life.

So, you support sex discrimination, don't respect differences of opinion, refuse to adhere to social norms regarding courtesy and respect, and something about concepts of gender negatively affecting your work life...?

That's pretty much what I thought, which is why I supposed you were bothered by Holmes' actions.

We aren't disagreeing here. You don't like that she was deliberately pitching her voice to sound like a man. Or, to put it in your preferred terms, 'apeing' men.

 

[Metaphor]

I am not somehow bothered about adult females who try to look, act, or sound like males. If you want to ape a sex class that you don't and cannot ever belong to, it's no skin off my nose. I mean, I feel sad for them, but I don't feel like it is somehow an assault on me.

It's interesting that you use the word 'ape' to describe it, and say you feel sad for those doing it, while claiming it doesn't bother you.

You sound like you're bothered.

Okay. Well, take ownership of your perceptions.

The hostility and condescension is palpable.

I explained the things that bother me and the things that don't. Accept that or don't.

I do care that people demand access to sex-segregated spaces where they do not qualify, I do care that people have decided sex is irrelevant and that a thought in your head is the most and only relevant thing, I do care about the attempts by the State and society to command my speech and demand I utter things I do not believe, and I do care about the phantasias engaged in by gender ideologists that affect me negatively in my work life.

So, you support sex discrimination,

Yes, of course, as has most of the world for all of our existence, including right now, in certain situations.

don't respect differences of opinion,

What does that mean? Do you respect my opinion? If not, why could I not accuse you of this exact same sin?

refuse to adhere to social norms regarding courtesy and respect,

I refuse to utter the prayers of somebody else's religion, and I refuse to be used as a puppet to affirm somebody else's fantasies. And it is absolutely discourteous and grossly disrespectful for others to expect me to do so.

and something about concepts of gender negatively affecting your work life...?

I could talk about how gender ideology is starting to creep into my work life, but this is not the thread.

That's pretty much what I thought, which is why I supposed you were bothered by Holmes' actions.

You supposed incorrectly. As I said, Holmes apeing Steve Jobs and affecting her voice to sound deeper amused me.

We aren't disagreeing here. You don't like that she was deliberately sounding more like a man, or to put it in your preferred terms, 'apeing' men.

No: as I said, I found it amusing. But, if you wish to falsely believe it bothered me, I can't help your beliefs.