Followup on the Jonathan Ferrell shooting

[Loren Pechtel]

The dashcam video was finally released:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=26&v=ciZAw4S4b1k

Oops--it shows an attempt to tase that failed (play it in slow motion and you can see the laser dot) at which point he charges the officer to the right of the camera, presumably the one who used the taser.

All the excuses that were presented before for his actions are obviously false. This is a guy who wouldn't listen and obviously posed a serious threat to the officer.

However, the department chose to throw the cop under the bus to defuse racial tension. The video was not being kept secret to protect the cop but to incriminate him.

 

[Arctish]

The dashcam video was finally released:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=26&v=ciZAw4S4b1k

Oops--it shows an attempt to tase that failed (play it in slow motion and you can see the laser dot)

Oops-- it shows the police attacked Ferrell without warning and for no reason.

Ferrell was walking toward them slowly and calmly, and no wonder since he was seeking their help. Suddenly, without any provocation or cause whatsoever, at least one of the cops unholstered a weapon and pointed it at him. One cop fires his taser at the startled Ferrell, causing him to try to run away. At this point someone starts shouting "Get on the ground!" and Kerrick starts shooting. There is a definite pause between groups of shots.

at which point he charges the officer to the right of the camera, presumably the one who used the taser.

No. At that point he tried to get away from the out-of-control and dangerous thugs in uniform attacking him.

Why do you presume Ferrell was running toward the cop who had just tried to tase him and not away from him? Is it because you presume black men are inherently violent? It's obvious from the video Ferrell dodged the cop who had just tried to light him up and accelerated past him. At no point in the video is Ferrell attacking or threatening anyone.

All the excuses that were presented before for his actions are obviously false.

His action don't need excusing. He did nothing to provoke the attack. Walking While Black is not a crime.

The video shows a blatant use of unnecessary force, but of course you see nothing wrong.

This is a guy who wouldn't listen and obviously posed a serious threat to the officer.

You might have had a point if the cops had bothered to say something before they initiated the violence, but since they didn't, you don't.

However, the department chose to throw the cop under the bus to defuse racial tension. The video was not being kept secret to protect the cop but to incriminate him.

They charged Kerrick because he used unnecessary lethal force on an unarmed civilian who was seeking help from the police. They charged him because at the point when the cops rolled up on Ferrell, they didn't know if he was the one the call was about or a neighbor who came out to see what set off the house alarm, but they immediately resorted to force anyway. They charged Kerrick because he killed someone.

And it is my understanding the video was not released to the public earlier so that it could be used at trial without jurors having already formed an opinion about it.

The Charlotte Observer has been covering the trial with daily updates. Anyone interested in the case can read about it there.

 

[Derec]

The dashcam video was finally released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=26&v=ciZAw4S4b1k

Even though the video doesn't show the actual shooting, one thing is very clear: this is not somebody walking up to the police for help, it is somebody rushing the police officers.
I do not think Ferrell was a bad guy. This was a tragedy where different things conspired: he was obviously impaired when he crashed his vehicle. His impairment and effects of the crash likely interfered with his cognition. On the other side the police officers were responding to a burglary call, got rushed by the suspect and unsuccessfully attempted to taze him. He actually got very close to Kerrick when he was shot.
The jury is currently deliberating but I see no grounds for a conviction here.

 

[Arctish]

The dashcam video was finally released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=26&v=ciZAw4S4b1k

Even though the video doesn't show the actual shooting, one thing is very clear: this is not somebody walking up to the police for help, it is somebody rushing the police officers.

You can see Ferrell walking slowly and calmly right up until one of the cops fired his taser without any sort of warning at all.

You can see Ferrell's startlement and how he dodged to the left and started running as the electrodes fly past him. The cops didn't say a word to the guy until after they had him on the run. And in the final frame we see him, he is clearly not on the attack.

 

[Derec]

Even though the video doesn't show the actual shooting, one thing is very clear: this is not somebody walking up to the police for help, it is somebody rushing the police officers.

You can see Ferrell walking slowly and calmly right up until one of the cops fired his taser without any sort of warning at all.

You can see Ferrell's startlement and how he dodged to the left as the electrodes fly past him. That's when Ferrell starts running. The cops didn't say a word to the guy until after they had him on the run.

He was rushing them, not running away. Also where do you see taser being shot before he started running?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Oops-- it shows the police attacked Ferrell without warning and for no reason.

Ferrell was walking toward them slowly and calmly, and no wonder since he was seeking their help. Suddenly, without any provocation or cause whatsoever, at least one of the cops unholstered a weapon and pointed it at him. One cop fires his taser at the startled Ferrell, causing him to try to run away.

That's what I saw too. You can see the laser dot and a flicker of the taser wires being fired, and this before any of the officers even SAY anything to him. It's not even as if he was refusing to obey their commands; they never GAVE him any commands before they tried to tase him.

This is a guy who wouldn't listen and obviously posed a serious threat to the officer.

You might have had a point if the cops had bothered to say something before they initiated the violence, but since they didn't, you don't.

Yup. Hell, they didn't even bother to IDENTIFY him when they approached him on the road. For all they knew at the time he was just a random pedestrian who happened to be walking across their path.

 

[Derec]

That's what I saw too. You can see the laser dot and a flicker of the taser wires being fired, and this before any of the officers even SAY anything to him. It's not even as if he was refusing to obey their commands; they never GAVE him any commands before they tried to tase him.

Let's say that's true. Kerrick is the officer on trial but he is not the one who used the taser. He used his firearm after the attempted tasing and after Ferrell was ordered to get on the ground three times. Why didn't he comply and instead rushed the officer in an aggressive manner?

Again, the use of the taser is not on trial here. The use of the gun is.

 

[Arctish]

You can see Ferrell walking slowly and calmly right up until one of the cops fired his taser without any sort of warning at all.

You can see Ferrell's startlement and how he dodged to the left as the electrodes fly past him. That's when Ferrell starts running. The cops didn't say a word to the guy until after they had him on the run.

He was rushing them, not running away. Also where do you see taser being shot before he started running?

Freeze the video and watch it frame by frame from the 14-20 second marks. You can see the laser light on Ferrell's chest a split second before he reacts to what is happening out of frame on the right. Most likely he saw a cop pointing a weapon at him, since that is the direction the taser electrodes comes from. Ferrell starts running and dodges to the left (his right) onto the grass as the taser is fired. You can see the electrodes and wires fly past and slightly behind him.

The taser must have been out and pointed at him, if not actually fired at the time Ferrell starts running because there's just no other way the electrodes could have been visible within the same second that Ferrell leaped forward.

Then Ferrell moves slightly right again, still running but not sprinting, back onto the pavement. He has an upright posture and is showing no signs of aggression as he moves out of sight of the camera and the cops start yelling at him to get on the ground.

 

[Derec]

Freeze the video and watch it frame by frame from the 14-20 second marks. You can see the laser light on Ferrell's chest a split second before he reacts to what is happening out of frame on the right. Most likely he saw a cop pointing a weapon at him, since that is the direction the taser electrodes comes from. Ferrell starts running and dodges to the left (his right) onto the grass as the taser is fired. You can see the electrodes and wires fly past and slightly behind him. Then Ferrell moves slightly right again, still running but not sprinting, back onto the pavement. He has an upright posture and is showing no signs of aggression as he moves out of sight of the camera. .

The correct response to police officers pointing a weapon at you is not to rush in their direction like a linebacker. I disagree that he "shows no signs of aggression".

Also, for some context, here's the thread on this case from the old forum.
How NOT to get the police to help in NC.

 

[Arctish]

Freeze the video and watch it frame by frame from the 14-20 second marks. You can see the laser light on Ferrell's chest a split second before he reacts to what is happening out of frame on the right. Most likely he saw a cop pointing a weapon at him, since that is the direction the taser electrodes comes from. Ferrell starts running and dodges to the left (his right) onto the grass as the taser is fired. You can see the electrodes and wires fly past and slightly behind him. Then Ferrell moves slightly right again, still running but not sprinting, back onto the pavement. He has an upright posture and is showing no signs of aggression as he moves out of sight of the camera. .

The correct response to police officers pointing a weapon at you is not to rush in their direction like a linebacker. I disagree that he "shows no signs of aggression".

"Like a linebacker?" Where did you see that? Or are you supposing Ferrell put his head down, tucked in his arms and charged the police after he moved off-screen because reasons?

Aren't you the guy who said "His impairment and effects of the crash likely interfered with his cognition" about 3 posts back?

Ferrell had been in a bad accident and wasn't expecting to be lit up by the cops he went to for help. But you think he should have been more clear headed and reacted more calmly than the uninjured, unimpaired, supposedly trained to handle stressful situations cops?

 

[Derec]

"Like a linebacker?" Where did you see that? Or are you supposing Ferrell put his head down, tucked in his arms and charged the police after he moved off-screen because reasons?

You know what I mean. He didn't stop advancing like he was supposed to do, he actually started running toward the officers despite the taser and despite repeated commands to get on the ground.

Aren't you the guy who said "His impairment and effects of the crash likely interfered with his cognition" about 3 posts back?

Indeed I was.

Ferrell had been in a bad accident and wasn't expecting to be lit up by the cops he went to for help. But you think he should have been more clear headed and reacted more calmly than the uninjured, unimpaired, supposedly trained to handle stressful situations cops?

Why does there have to be a bad guy? Clearing Kerrick doesn't mean Ferrell is a thug who deserved to die. Police officers have to react to the situation as they see it at a time, not the way it is revealed to be afterwards. They knew they had a burglary call and that the suspect (large, strong-looking guy seemingly not physically injured by the accident) rushed them. They did not know anything about an accident, his probable confused state or that he might have been seeking their help.

I think this was a tragic concatenation of circumstances.
However, Ferrell started this series by getting behind the wheel impaired and running off the road (a low-speed residential dead-end street that goes to the pool).

 

[repoman]

I think that the cop who fired the taser is at fault, as well as them as them as a whole for not saying something like "Good evening sir, how are you doing..." when he was say 10 meters away.

Firing a taser by surprise made the victim have an instinctual/reflexive flight response that lead to the other cops having their own. Really sucks.

I at first thought he was aggressive in his response to the tasing attempt, but watching again he was not. The cops didn't have that second chance. But they had the first chance to treat the man with respect by greeting him as he approached.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That's what I saw too. You can see the laser dot and a flicker of the taser wires being fired, and this before any of the officers even SAY anything to him. It's not even as if he was refusing to obey their commands; they never GAVE him any commands before they tried to tase him.

Let's say that's true. Kerrick is the officer on trial but he is not the one who used the taser. He used his firearm after the attempted tasing and after Ferrell was ordered to get on the ground three times. Why didn't he comply and instead rushed the officer in an aggressive manner?

Question begging: did he "rush the officer in an aggressive manner?"

I don't even see how that's possible given the distances involved; Ferrel takes off in a dead run when the taser fires, and by the time he leaves the frame of the dashcam he's not more than five or six feet away from Kerrick.

This is looking like another case where a cop would have to have some truly superhuman abilities in order for his account of events to be accurate; it's a lot more likely that Ferrel ran PAST him and Kerrick shot him to prevent him from escaping. That, too, would be consistent with the pattern of the shots: (four shots... PAUSE... seven more shots). The first burst of fire didn't take him down, so Kerrick shot him again to make sure he was completely stopped.

I don't see Kerrick being in a position to actually yell at him three times "Get on the ground! Get on the ground!" even while a second officer is heard yelling "stop stop!" That doesn't sound like Ferrel is attacking him, it sounds like he's running his ass off and the cops are chasing him.

 

[Derec]

From the old thread:

According to the lawyer for the Ferrell family they saw the dash cam video. He says that Ferrell walks towards the officers and immediately you see the taser light then he holds up his hands and says STOP wait, wait and then you hear shots.

Seems like according to the lawyer's version of the dash cam video the only one who said stop was FERRELL. So very sad and scary

Seems like the "lawyer for the Ferrell family" turned out to be the "liar for the Ferrell family".

 

[Arctish]

You know what I mean. He didn't stop advancing like he was supposed to do, he actually started running toward the officers despite the taser and despite repeated commands to get on the ground.

It's very clear in the video Ferrell started running forward because of the taser, not despite it. We can't tell if he kept running despite repeated commands to get on the ground because that all happens off screen, but we do know those commands came after the taser was fired and after Ferrell started running away from the cop who fired it (Officer Little). Maybe Ferrell kept running, maybe he didn't. Maybe he blundered straight into Kerrick as Kerrick was coming around the back of his patrol car. We don't know really know. But we do know Ferrell didn't give any indication he was attacking at any time he was within view of the dash cam.

Aren't you the guy who said "His impairment and effects of the crash likely interfered with his cognition" about 3 posts back?

Indeed I was.

Ferrell had been in a bad accident and wasn't expecting to be lit up by the cops he went to for help. But you think he should have been more clear headed and reacted more calmly than the uninjured, unimpaired, supposedly trained to handle stressful situations cops?

Why does there have to be a bad guy? Clearing Kerrick doesn't mean Ferrell is a thug who deserved to die. Police officers have to react to the situation as they see it at a time, not the way it is revealed to be afterwards. They knew they had a burglary call and that the suspect (large, strong-looking guy seemingly not physically injured by the accident) rushed them. They did not know anything about an accident, his probable confused state or that he might have been seeking their help.

I think this was a tragic concatenation of circumstances.

There doesn't have to be a bad guy. And I agree this was a tragic concatenation of circumstances, starting with the car crash and also including the hysterical homeowner's 911 call. But police must be held accountable for their actions, especially when those actions result in a fatality. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for life in a police state.

The cops used unnecessary force and a citizen is dead because of it. That's a problem that must be addressed.

 

[repoman]

Damn, every motherfucker lies. Humans suck.

Also, the cop who tased may have lied since the victim didn't say "shoot me" on the video.

http://news.wbt.com/newsroom/article.cfm?id=8B0CE45A-5056-A021-C24C66A1FBF4A01F&code=1110

the taser happy cop:

 

[Derec]

Damn, every motherfucker lies. Humans suck.

Also, the cop who tased may have lied since the victim didn't say "shoot me" on the video.

In his defense, it might have been too soft to be picked up by the dashcam mic.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Also, the cop who tased may have lied since the victim didn't say "shoot me" on the video.

In his defense, it might have been too soft to be picked up by the dashcam mic.

Soft enough, perhaps, to be a misheard "Don't shoot me"?

 

[Arctish]

In his defense, it might have been too soft to be picked up by the dashcam mic.

Soft enough, perhaps, to be a misheard "Don't shoot me"?

Good point.

 

[Derec]

Soft enough, perhaps, to be a misheard "Don't shoot me"?

Quite possible. Of course, the best course of action to ensure that outcome would have been to stop.