Forbes's list of "Best Countries for Business"

[Tammuz]

Here is Forbes' most recent list of Best Countries for Business.

What we can see there is that many of the supposedly "socialist" European countries are in fact more business-friendly than the US. Of the Nordic countries, all except Iceland are more business-friendly than the US (Sweden is #2 in the world, the US is #17).

Perhaps information like this could improve the American political debate?

 

[prideandfall]

information... improve... American... debate?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
*heavy panting*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*deep breath*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

... holy shit man, that's fuckin' comedy gold.

 

[crazyfingers]

Perhaps I missed it but I wonder what factors they measure and weigh to get to those ranks. I recall reading that single payer health insurance in all of the other developed countries has actually been very good for business. Particularly allowing small companies to grow into larger companies without the direct burden of paying for health insurance. Of course the US pays like twice the cost per capita for health insurance with no particular benefit and a lot of drawbacks. I am curious how that was factored in.

 

[dismal]

Perhaps I missed it but I wonder what factors they measure and weigh to get to those ranks. I recall reading that single payer health insurance in all of the other developed countries has actually been very good for business. Particularly allowing small companies to grow into larger companies without the direct burden of paying for health insurance. Of course the US pays like twice the cost per capita for health insurance with no particular benefit and a lot of drawbacks. I am curious how that was factored in.

Yes, these sorts of ranked lists are usually more about the criteria some journalist has defined as "important" than what a business would think.

I would look at how businesses vote with their feet.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, fuck you, Denmark. Rank #7 is for losers.

 

[Tammuz]

Perhaps I missed it but I wonder what factors they measure and weigh to get to those ranks. I recall reading that single payer health insurance in all of the other developed countries has actually been very good for business. Particularly allowing small companies to grow into larger companies without the direct burden of paying for health insurance. Of course the US pays like twice the cost per capita for health insurance with no particular benefit and a lot of drawbacks. I am curious how that was factored in.

Why wouldn't, say, Sweden, be good for businesses? Wouldn't businesses prefer a stable society with decent infrastructure, a society with minimal corruption in which contracts are enforced, and an educated population (potential workforce) over some miserable third world backwater with re-occurring coups, high corruption in which contracts can't be counted on to be upheld, a poorly educated population (potential workforce), and a poor infrastructure?

 

[dismal]

Perhaps I missed it but I wonder what factors they measure and weigh to get to those ranks. I recall reading that single payer health insurance in all of the other developed countries has actually been very good for business. Particularly allowing small companies to grow into larger companies without the direct burden of paying for health insurance. Of course the US pays like twice the cost per capita for health insurance with no particular benefit and a lot of drawbacks. I am curious how that was factored in.

Why wouldn't, say, Sweden, be good for businesses? Wouldn't businesses prefer a stable society with decent infrastructure, a society with minimal corruption in which contracts are enforced, and an educated population (potential workforce) over some miserable third world backwater with re-occurring coups, high corruption in which contracts can't be counted on to be upheld, a poorly educated population (potential workforce), and a poor infrastructure?

We can at least see the categories. They are Trade Freedom, Monetary Freedom, Property Rights, Innovation, Technology, Red Tape, Investor Protection, Corruption, Personal Freedom and Tax Burden.

The US seems to rank worst in "Monetary Freedom". Not even sure what that means or how it would affect my decision to open a business somewhere.

It also ranks worse than its overall ranking in (in order of badness) Red Tape, Investor Protection, Trade Freedom, Tax Burden and Personal Freedom.

So, if you want to improve the US ranking you'd be on board with with less regulation, lower taxes, less interference with market pricing, etc.

 

[dismal]

Here by the way is Sweden and the US' rankings:

Sweden
Trade Freedom
21
Monetary Freedom
34
Property Rights
7
Innovation
5
Technology
4
Red Tape
17
Investor Protection
32
Corruption
6
Personal Freedom
1
Tax Burden
27

US
Trade Freedom
46
Monetary Freedom
80
Property Rights
14
Innovation
2
Technology
27
Red Tape
51
Investor Protection
49
Corruption
16
Personal Freedom
34
Tax Burden
37

 

[RVonse]

The US seems to rank worst in "Monetary Freedom". Not even sure what that means or how it would affect my decision to open a business somewhere.

Just guessing. But maybe it has to do with restricting that US dollars have to be used and where banking and funds can be transferred?

 

[dismal]

The US seems to rank worst in "Monetary Freedom". Not even sure what that means or how it would affect my decision to open a business somewhere.

Just guessing. But maybe it has to do with restricting that US dollars have to be used and where banking and funds can be transferred?

I can't imagine. There were a lot of banking restrictions and such that came in with anti-terrorism and Dodd-Frank, but I can't imagine the US ranks behind much of the world in the ease of using money. And if so, it probably has almost no effect on most businesses. The US dollar is one of the more liquid, stable and exchangeable currencies in the word.

I suppose I could try to look up their definition, but I'm skeptical it would be something most businesses would care that much about. *Shrug*

 

[dismal]

OK, so Forbes just cribs their index for "Monetary Freedom" from the Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation index is based on last 3 years inflation plus an assessment of the prevalence of price controls.

https://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2019/book/methodology.pdf

Since it says a 10% inflation would result in a score of 80 and a 2% inflation in a score of 91, the US must be taking a pretty big hit for price controls to get down to 76.6.

I guess we owe that to all the "fight for 15" crowd.

 

[SimpleDon]

So, if you want to improve the US ranking you'd be on board with less regulation, lower taxes, less interference with market pricing, etc.

Make the US economy more like Somalia's for example, an informal economy. They aren't hard to find, most developing countries have large informal economies. Somalia's economy comes to mind because they have nothing but an informal economy. No taxes, no regulations, no interference with market pricing. Your perfect economy.

 

[dismal]

So, if you want to improve the US ranking you'd be on board with less regulation, lower taxes, less interference with market pricing, etc.

Make the US economy more like Somalia's for example, an informal economy. They aren't hard to find, most developing countries have large informal economies. Somalia's economy comes to mind because they have nothing but an informal economy. No taxes, no regulations, no interference with market pricing. Your perfect economy.

I don't see Somalia on the list.

Where is it you think they particularly excel in their business climate?

Property rights?

 

[SimpleDon]

So, if you want to improve the US ranking you'd be on board with less regulation, lower taxes, less interference with market pricing, etc.

Make the US economy more like Somalia's for example, an informal economy. They aren't hard to find, most developing countries have large informal economies. Somalia's economy comes to mind because they have nothing but an informal economy. No taxes, no regulations, no interference with market pricing. Your perfect economy.

I don't see Somalia on the list.

Where is it you think they particularly excel in their business climate?

Property rights?

I don't believe that they have a good environment for business. I was just suggesting that Somalia fulfills your criteria for a good business environment.

Why doesn't it?

 

[RVonse]

OK, so Forbes just cribs their index for "Monetary Freedom" from the Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation index is based on last 3 years inflation plus an assessment of the prevalence of price controls.

https://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2019/book/methodology.pdf

Since it says a 10% inflation would result in a score of 80 and a 2% inflation in a scorae of 91, the US must be taking a pretty big hit for price controls to get down to 76.6.

I guess we owe that to all the "fight for 15" crowd.

I cant believe it would be price controls either. The US hasnt had any price controls since the Nixon administration.

Its probably high inflation then. US Inflation is actually pretty high if it is measured in asset valuations. And you can blame that on the low interested rates and monetary easing.

 

[RVonse]

There were a lot of banking restrictions and such that came in with anti-terrorism and Dodd-Frank, ....

Dont forget the IRS. Or the Fed for that matter. IMO they have both teamed up to prefer a cashless society. A cashless society is great for the IRS and I do not deny it. But it is also a huge PAIN IN THE ASS for a small business. Especially a small business that deals with poor customers who want to pay in currency.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Here's the full methodology:

We determined the Best Countries for Business by rating 161 nations on 15 different factors: property rights, innovation, taxes, technology, corruption, infrastructure, market size, political risk, quality of life, workforce, freedom (personal, trade and monetary), red tape and investor protection. Each category was equally weighted. We only included countries with data across at least 11 categories. The U.K. was the only country to rank among the top 30 countries in each of the categories.

We used the World Bank’s Doing Business report to grade countries’ taxes, investor protection and red tape/bureaucracy. Hong Kong finished first on taxes (and third overall) with Venezuela at the bottom of the 161 countries in our final rank (the U.S. was No. 37 on taxes). Kazakhstan was tops for investor protection with Haiti ranked last. New Zealand was first for red tape (and fifth overall), and Venezuela finished last. Venezuela also finished at the bottom on monetary freedom.

The Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom provided the basis for our ratings on trade freedom and monetary freedom. Singapore, Hong Kong and Switzerland tied on top for trade freedom with Iraq and Yemen ranked last. Hungary was the best for monetary freedom for the third straight year. Personal freedom ratings came from Freedom House’s Freedom in the World report, which deemed more than 33 nations to be the “most free.” The U.S. was not one of them. The report cited “Growing evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 elections, violations of basic ethical standards by the new administration, and a reduction in government transparency.”

Ratings on technology, innovation and infrastructure came compliments of the World Economic Forum’s annual Global Competitiveness Report. Information and communication technology (ICT) adoption was used as a proxy for technology. South Korea was first on ICT adoption, with Germany the leader in innovation. Chad and Angola bring up the rear in those categories. Singapore led the infrastructure metric and Haiti ranked last.

We used the Property Rights Alliance’s International Property Rights Index to gauge property rights, which was led by Japan. The corruption rankings were culled from Transparency International’s widely followed Corruption Perceptions Index, with New Zealand on top and Syria on the bottom.

We tweaked our methodology last year for the first time in a decade after conversations with multiple site-selection experts. Stock market performance was out, and we added workforce, infrastructure, market size, quality of life and political risk.

A few more indicators (such as "quality of life") at the link.

 

[SimpleDon]

OK, so Forbes just cribs their index for "Monetary Freedom" from the Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation index is based on last 3 years inflation plus an assessment of the prevalence of price controls.

https://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2019/book/methodology.pdf

Since it says a 10% inflation would result in a score of 80 and a 2% inflation in a scorae of 91, the US must be taking a pretty big hit for price controls to get down to 76.6.

I guess we owe that to all the "fight for 15" crowd.

I cant believe it would be price controls either. The US hasnt had any price controls since the Nixon administration.

Its probably high inflation then. US Inflation is actually pretty high if it is measured in asset valuations. And you can blame that on the low interested rates and monetary easing.

The US hasn't had a very competitive market for years. It is not because of the government but because of so many large corporations dominating their markets with monopoly-type control over their pricing.

Assets pricing is high because of the income inequality that conservatives work so hard to bring about. The more money that goes to the rich the harder it is for them to generate high returns with the money. They pump-up the stock market and the real estate market through REITs.

The monetary easing does the same thing. Normally tax cuts for the rich impact on the economy are non-existent. Any extra money for the economy is canceled out by the increase in the federal government debt that results from the lower taxes requiring the sales of T-Bills that reduce the amount of money in the economy by the exact same amount as the tax cuts. The monetary easing is meant to counteract this. The Fed "prints" money out of essentially thin air to buy the T-Bills from the rich to inject money into the economy to over-value the stock market and real estate.

 

[RVonse]

OK, so Forbes just cribs their index for "Monetary Freedom" from the Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation index is based on last 3 years inflation plus an assessment of the prevalence of price controls.

https://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2019/book/methodology.pdf

Since it says a 10% inflation would result in a score of 80 and a 2% inflation in a scorae of 91, the US must be taking a pretty big hit for price controls to get down to 76.6.

I guess we owe that to all the "fight for 15" crowd.

I cant believe it would be price controls either. The US hasnt had any price controls since the Nixon administration.

Its probably high inflation then. US Inflation is actually pretty high if it is measured in asset valuations. And you can blame that on the low interested rates and monetary easing.

The US hasn't had a very competitive market for years. It is not because of the government but because of so many large corporations dominating their markets with monopoly-type control over their pricing.

Assets pricing is high because of the income inequality that conservatives work so hard to bring about. The more money that goes to the rich the harder it is for them to generate high returns with the money. They pump-up the stock market and the real estate market through REITs.

The monetary easing does the same thing. Normally tax cuts for the rich impact on the economy are non-existent. Any extra money for the economy is canceled out by the increase in the federal government debt that results from the lower taxes requiring the sales of T-Bills that reduce the amount of money in the economy by the exact same amount as the tax cuts. The monetary easing is meant to counteract this. The Fed "prints" money out of essentially thin air to buy the T-Bills from the rich to inject money into the economy to over-value the stock market and real estate.

You can not say it is not the governments fault or responsibility. And then go on to say the monetary easing causes pricing problems with the market. It is the governments responsibility. They are the only ones who get to print the currency.

Just stop the monetary easing already! Oh I guess I forgot.....that will crash the economy and cause politicians to not get elected again.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, these sorts of ranked lists are usually more about the criteria some journalist has defined as "important" than what a business would think.

I would look at how businesses vote with their feet.

Seconded. My former boss was looking into relocating the plant to Mexico. The reason: Get the EPA off our backs. It's not that we were misbehaving, it's that we weren't "behaving" as well as our competition. The competition we told them over and over were faking their reports. Took the EPA another decade to figure out what we could easily see with no inside knowledge. (We knew the technology available, their numbers simply weren't possible.) Where is that sort of thing going go to show up in the data?