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Franchise group files to block [Seattle's] $15 minimum-wage phase-in

ksen

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http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024257566_franchiseinjunctionxml.html

The International Franchise Association has asked a federal judge to immediately block portions of Seattle’s $15 minimum-wage law, which treats local franchises as large businesses.

In a motion for a preliminary injunction filed Wednesday in the U.S. District Court of Western Washington, the group says franchisees will be irreparably harmed and face a competitive disadvantage because the law treats them as large employers solely because they are associated with a national corporation.

Sorry franchise owners, you don't get to have only the benefits of being associated with a (trans)national corporation and none of the drawbacks.

Suck it up and pay your people enough to live on.
 
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024257566_franchiseinjunctionxml.html

The International Franchise Association has asked a federal judge to immediately block portions of Seattle’s $15 minimum-wage law, which treats local franchises as large businesses.

In a motion for a preliminary injunction filed Wednesday in the U.S. District Court of Western Washington, the group says franchisees will be irreparably harmed and face a competitive disadvantage because the law treats them as large employers solely because they are associated with a national corporation.

Sorry franchise owners, you don't get to have only the benefits of being associated with a (trans)national corporation and none of the drawbacks.

Suck it up and pay your people enough to live on.
Or let the transnationals know that you will be shutting down all your restaurants in a large market because of costs. See how fast your agreements are renegotiated.
 
from the OP story:

The lawsuit also contains declarations by several local franchise owners who say they have taken all the financial risks to build their businesses and receive little in the way of training, branding or corporate support. They say they’ll have to pay higher wages for the first four years after the minimum-wage law goes into effect while local businesses of similar size will pay less.

Charles Stempler, who owns two AlphaGraphics franchises in Seattle, said he invested his own money to finance the purchase of the business and pays marketing and franchise fees to the parent company. While he received four weeks of training from the company, he said, “I paid all the costs of my training — room, board, tuition and travel costs.”

Sage Wilson, spokesman for Working Washington, which lobbies for fast-food workers, said the declarations show so little benefit, “It’s hard to understand why anyone would become a franchisee under the model they describe. They pay a lot of money and get nothing in return.”

Indeed. These guys whine like the only thing they got out of franchising was a smaller checking account. Then why do it? Why not just open up your own local restaurant/shop?

You don't think they might be lying, do you?
 
from the OP story:

The lawsuit also contains declarations by several local franchise owners who say they have taken all the financial risks to build their businesses and receive little in the way of training, branding or corporate support. They say they’ll have to pay higher wages for the first four years after the minimum-wage law goes into effect while local businesses of similar size will pay less.

Charles Stempler, who owns two AlphaGraphics franchises in Seattle, said he invested his own money to finance the purchase of the business and pays marketing and franchise fees to the parent company. While he received four weeks of training from the company, he said, “I paid all the costs of my training — room, board, tuition and travel costs.”

Sage Wilson, spokesman for Working Washington, which lobbies for fast-food workers, said the declarations show so little benefit, “It’s hard to understand why anyone would become a franchisee under the model they describe. They pay a lot of money and get nothing in return.”

Indeed. These guys whine like the only thing they got out of franchising was a smaller checking account. Then why do it? Why not just open up your own local restaurant/shop?

You don't think they might be lying, do you?
Depends on who it actually is. Franchising can be risky and profit margins razor thin as often all the risks of business is placed upon the franchise owners. But get the right product in the right location and you are swimmin' in the cash.
 
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024257566_franchiseinjunctionxml.html

The International Franchise Association has asked a federal judge to immediately block portions of Seattle’s $15 minimum-wage law, which treats local franchises as large businesses.

In a motion for a preliminary injunction filed Wednesday in the U.S. District Court of Western Washington, the group says franchisees will be irreparably harmed and face a competitive disadvantage because the law treats them as large employers solely because they are associated with a national corporation.

Sorry franchise owners, you don't get to have only the benefits of being associated with a (trans)national corporation and none of the drawbacks.

Suck it up and pay your people enough to live on.

It's a legal case. There are legal arguments and stuff.
 
from the OP story:

The lawsuit also contains declarations by several local franchise owners who say they have taken all the financial risks to build their businesses and receive little in the way of training, branding or corporate support. They say they’ll have to pay higher wages for the first four years after the minimum-wage law goes into effect while local businesses of similar size will pay less.

Charles Stempler, who owns two AlphaGraphics franchises in Seattle, said he invested his own money to finance the purchase of the business and pays marketing and franchise fees to the parent company. While he received four weeks of training from the company, he said, “I paid all the costs of my training — room, board, tuition and travel costs.”

Sage Wilson, spokesman for Working Washington, which lobbies for fast-food workers, said the declarations show so little benefit, “It’s hard to understand why anyone would become a franchisee under the model they describe. They pay a lot of money and get nothing in return.”

Indeed. These guys whine like the only thing they got out of franchising was a smaller checking account. Then why do it? Why not just open up your own local restaurant/shop?

You don't think they might be lying, do you?

Typically an increase in wages comes out of profits if a single business does it in a competitive market. If you believe in supply and demand setting prices this is pretty obvious, you have done nothing to effect either supply or demand. But even if you take the more reasonable approach that the business is setting their prices to maximize their profits it also stands to reason that increased wages come out of profits since you have already maximized your profits, increased wages have to cut profits.

But that is not what we are talking about here, a single business increasing wages. We are talking about all of the competitors having to increase wages. Once again, through the ramifications depending on your views of economics. If you believe that supply and demand set prices then we once again are faced with no change in either supply or demand leaving no changes in prices, but only in the short term. In the long term the increased wages mean that some marginal businesses will be forced out of business sooner than they would have been under the old wage structure. But the demand is still there for the product at the old price. And the more productive competitors who are left will be able to provide the supply to meet the demand because it will increase their profits.

One of the major flaws with neoclassical economics, the economics of the free market, is that they haven't caught up with the industrial revolution and the realities of it. Their principles are based on the economic principles of the 18th and early 19th century agrarian economies. In this case in the difference between capital investment and the use of capital services. Capital investment is limited, a single business only has a certain number of machines available to do their work just as agriculture only has a certain amount of land to use.

But unlike agriculture modern businesses can increase the use of the machines available to a much larger degree before they trigger diminishing returns. Any one business can increase their business, their sales volume, by using the machines available to them more frequently to increase their business. Neoclassical economics, especially the Econ 101 that most free markers rely on, hasn't caught up with this difference between the constrained availability of capital machines and the much less constraint of the use of the capital machines, what is called capital services. A manufacturing plant can add a shift and double their production with a reduced marginal cost of production.

Fast food can increase the number of people who are working in one location to increase the supply that a failure of a less productive fast food place provided. I had a reference to a McDonald's training video that empathized this point. I can probably find it again if there is interest in it.

Only if you don't accept the free market view of supply and demand setting prices could there be a long term problem. If you accept that prices are set to maximize profits and not by supply and demand then you have to accept that increasing wages in every business in a market will result in increased prices in the long term. And increased prices could result in reduced demand for fast food, in this case.

But this won't be the only change that happens. Increased wages will mean increased demand from the wage earners but lower profits economy wide. And as we have seen this is the biggest thing that we are lacking in the economy today, demand. We have huge amounts of capital sitting idle waiting for demand to pick up.

In other words this is what needs to be done, increase wages to increase demand, even if it means that profits must drop.
 
Last edited:
from the OP story:



Indeed. These guys whine like the only thing they got out of franchising was a smaller checking account. Then why do it? Why not just open up your own local restaurant/shop?

You don't think they might be lying, do you?

Typically an increase in wages comes out of profits if a single business does it in a competitive market. If you believe in supply and demand setting prices this is pretty obvious, you have done nothing to effect either supply or demand. But even if you take the more reasonable approach that the business is setting their prices to maximize their profits it also stands to reason that increased wages come out of profits since you have already maximized your profits, increased wages have to cut prices.

But that is not what we are talking about here, a single business increasing wages. We are talking about all of the competitors having to increase wages. Once again, through the ramifications depending on your views of economics. If you believe that supply and demand set prices then we once again are faced with no change in either supply or demand leaving no changes in prices, but only in the short term. In the long term the increased wages mean that some marginal businesses will be forced out of business sooner than they would have been under the old wage structure. But the demand is still there for the product at the old price. And the more productive competitors who are left will be able to provide the supply to meet the demand because it will increase their prices.

One of the major flaws with neoclassical economics, the economics of the free market, is that they haven't caught up with the industrial revolution and the realities of it. Their principles are based on the economic principles of the 18th and early 19th century agrarian economies. In this case in the difference between capital investment and the use of capital services. Capital investment is limited, a single business only has a certain number of machines available to do their work just as agriculture only has a certain amount of land to use.

But unlike agriculture modern businesses can increase the use of the machines available to a much larger degree before they trigger diminishing returns. Any one business can increase their business, their sales volume, by using the machines available to them more frequently to increase their business. Neoclassical economics, especially the Econ 101 that most free markers rely on, hasn't caught up with this difference between the constrained availability of capital machines and the much less constraint of the use of the capital machines, what is called capital services. A manufacturing plant can add a shift and double their production with a reduced marginal cost of production.

Fast food can increase the number of people who are working in one location to increase the supply that a failure of a less productive fast food place provided. I had a reference to a McDonald's training video that empathized this point. I can probably find it again if there is interest in it.

Only if you don't accept the free market view of supply and demand setting prices could there be a long term problem. If you accept that prices are set to maximize profits and not by supply and demand then you have to accept that increasing wages in every business in a market will result in increased prices in the long term. And increased prices could result in reduced demand for fast food, in this case.

But this won't be the only change that happens. Increased wages will mean increased demand from the wage earners but lower profits economy wide. And as we have seen this is the biggest thing that we are lacking in the economy today, demand. We have huge amounts of capital sitting idle waiting for demand to pick up.

In other words this is what needs to be done, increase wages to increase demand, even if it means that profits must drop.

So the argument really is if inflation can happen faster than the downfalls. So McDonalds has to raise their prices to offset the cost to them and hope that the increased prices don't cause people to stop eating out.
 
I really botched that post, I wrote prices twice when I meant profits, changing the meaning by 180 degrees. In the off chance that someone was responding to my post make sure that you are responding to rev. 2 which ended each of the first two paragraphs with the word "profits."
 
Typically an increase in wages comes out of profits if a single business does it in a competitive market. If you believe in supply and demand setting prices this is pretty obvious, you have done nothing to effect either supply or demand. But even if you take the more reasonable approach that the business is setting their prices to maximize their profits it also stands to reason that increased wages come out of profits since you have already maximized your profits, increased wages have to cut prices.

But that is not what we are talking about here, a single business increasing wages. We are talking about all of the competitors having to increase wages. Once again, through the ramifications depending on your views of economics. If you believe that supply and demand set prices then we once again are faced with no change in either supply or demand leaving no changes in prices, but only in the short term. In the long term the increased wages mean that some marginal businesses will be forced out of business sooner than they would have been under the old wage structure. But the demand is still there for the product at the old price. And the more productive competitors who are left will be able to provide the supply to meet the demand because it will increase their prices.

One of the major flaws with neoclassical economics, the economics of the free market, is that they haven't caught up with the industrial revolution and the realities of it. Their principles are based on the economic principles of the 18th and early 19th century agrarian economies. In this case in the difference between capital investment and the use of capital services. Capital investment is limited, a single business only has a certain number of machines available to do their work just as agriculture only has a certain amount of land to use.

But unlike agriculture modern businesses can increase the use of the machines available to a much larger degree before they trigger diminishing returns. Any one business can increase their business, their sales volume, by using the machines available to them more frequently to increase their business. Neoclassical economics, especially the Econ 101 that most free markers rely on, hasn't caught up with this difference between the constrained availability of capital machines and the much less constraint of the use of the capital machines, what is called capital services. A manufacturing plant can add a shift and double their production with a reduced marginal cost of production.

Fast food can increase the number of people who are working in one location to increase the supply that a failure of a less productive fast food place provided. I had a reference to a McDonald's training video that empathized this point. I can probably find it again if there is interest in it.

Only if you don't accept the free market view of supply and demand setting prices could there be a long term problem. If you accept that prices are set to maximize profits and not by supply and demand then you have to accept that increasing wages in every business in a market will result in increased prices in the long term. And increased prices could result in reduced demand for fast food, in this case.

But this won't be the only change that happens. Increased wages will mean increased demand from the wage earners but lower profits economy wide. And as we have seen this is the biggest thing that we are lacking in the economy today, demand. We have huge amounts of capital sitting idle waiting for demand to pick up.

In other words this is what needs to be done, increase wages to increase demand, even if it means that profits must drop.

So the argument really is if inflation can happen faster than the downfalls. So McDonalds has to raise their prices to offset the cost to them and hope that the increased prices don't cause people to stop eating out.

Assuming that you believe that prices aren't set by supply and demand, yes. But it doesn't have anything to do with inflation, we are talking about price increases beyond inflation, which has been very low lately. Besides this lawsuit contends that the McDonald's are independent businesses separate from the large corporation. I assume that that means that they set their own prices independently of the large McDonald's corporation. It would be hard for them to argue that they are independent if they can't even set their own prices.
 
But inflation is what people are hoping for with a minimum wage. That increased demand thing. The timing of everything is the issue. How fast can prices be raised compared to the downsides of the increased costs to the employers. I think McDonalds allows franchisees to set their local prices independently.
 
If you "get" my point about the differences between capital investment and the use of capital services in the modern industrial and even post industrial economies it puts you ahead of about 90% of the economists working today.

This is one of the points involved in what is called the Cambridge Capital Controversy of the 1950's and 1960's. It was between the economists of Cambridge University in the UK and of the economists of MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, hence the term Cambridge Controversy. The economists of MIT finally conceded that the economists of Cambridge University were right and they spent the next sixty years ignoring the concession that the UK's economists were right. It is one of the major reasons that neoclassical economics is so nearly useless today, especially for predicting the course of the economy.

I am assuming that you can google the terms to see more about this.
 
If you "get" my point about the differences between capital investment and the use of capital services in the modern industrial and even post industrial economies it puts you ahead of about 90% of the economists working today.

This is one of the points involved in what is called the Cambridge Capital Controversy of the 1950's and 1960's. It was between the economists of Cambridge University in the UK and of the economists of MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, hence the term Cambridge Controversy. The economists of MIT finally conceded that the economists of Cambridge University were right and they spent the next sixty years ignoring the concession that the UK's economists were right. It is one of the major reasons that neoclassical economics is so nearly useless today, especially for predicting the course of the economy.

I am assuming that you can google the terms to see more about this.


I'm trying to understand how you are trying to apply it here. If people do think that increasing the minimum wage doesn't cause other problems, then why can't we raise the minimum wage to a million dollars an hour?
 
If you "get" my point about the differences between capital investment and the use of capital services in the modern industrial and even post industrial economies it puts you ahead of about 90% of the economists working today.

This is one of the points involved in what is called the Cambridge Capital Controversy of the 1950's and 1960's. It was between the economists of Cambridge University in the UK and of the economists of MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, hence the term Cambridge Controversy. The economists of MIT finally conceded that the economists of Cambridge University were right and they spent the next sixty years ignoring the concession that the UK's economists were right. It is one of the major reasons that neoclassical economics is so nearly useless today, especially for predicting the course of the economy.

I am assuming that you can google the terms to see more about this.


I'm trying to understand how you are trying to apply it here. If people do think that increasing the minimum wage doesn't cause other problems, then why can't we raise the minimum wage to a million dollars an hour?

Nobody thinks the minimum wage can be arbitrarily high, just that it can be higher than it is now without necessarily causing problems.
 
If you "get" my point about the differences between capital investment and the use of capital services in the modern industrial and even post industrial economies it puts you ahead of about 90% of the economists working today.

This is one of the points involved in what is called the Cambridge Capital Controversy of the 1950's and 1960's. It was between the economists of Cambridge University in the UK and of the economists of MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, hence the term Cambridge Controversy. The economists of MIT finally conceded that the economists of Cambridge University were right and they spent the next sixty years ignoring the concession that the UK's economists were right. It is one of the major reasons that neoclassical economics is so nearly useless today, especially for predicting the course of the economy.

I am assuming that you can google the terms to see more about this.


I'm trying to understand how you are trying to apply it here. If people do think that increasing the minimum wage doesn't cause other problems, then why can't we raise the minimum wage to a million dollars an hour?
I was planning on arguing on raising it to a infinity zillion dollars, because that would make it a great argument. It's like when my wife asked to turn up the thermostat one degree (which we can easily afford) and I argued why not turn the thermostat up to the heat of the Sun's corona because that also is a totally reasonable argument!
 
If you "get" my point about the differences between capital investment and the use of capital services in the modern industrial and even post industrial economies it puts you ahead of about 90% of the economists working today.

This is one of the points involved in what is called the Cambridge Capital Controversy of the 1950's and 1960's. It was between the economists of Cambridge University in the UK and of the economists of MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, hence the term Cambridge Controversy. The economists of MIT finally conceded that the economists of Cambridge University were right and they spent the next sixty years ignoring the concession that the UK's economists were right. It is one of the major reasons that neoclassical economics is so nearly useless today, especially for predicting the course of the economy.

I am assuming that you can google the terms to see more about this.


I'm trying to understand how you are trying to apply it here. If people do think that increasing the minimum wage doesn't cause other problems, then why can't we raise the minimum wage to a million dollars an hour?

So doesn't then the argument become where along a curve or a straight line before the effects become seen?
 
I'm trying to understand how you are trying to apply it here. If people do think that increasing the minimum wage doesn't cause other problems, then why can't we raise the minimum wage to a million dollars an hour?

So doesn't then the argument become where along a curve or a straight line before the effects become seen?

That would be an argument along the lines of "The negative effects of a higher minimum wage can be seen a $X/hr <insert relevant data to backup claim of X here>. Since $X/hr is lower than the $15 Seattle minimum wage, negative effects will be seen as a result."

Unfortunately, that is not the argument you made, and the one you did make was rather ridiculous, but not unexpected.
 
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