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French really thought they were special and better than germans

 
 
 
Pretty sure the US spied on the British too. Certainly the British spied on the British, and the US have free access to that.
 
These spying programs are begun without the least thought of the consequences of being caught.

Or any thoughts of their value.

What the government thinks it can keep secret it also thinks has no consequences. Thus much more than is needed to defend us is classified. If the government is doing something stupid it just makes the whole thing classified.

When are government officials going to be tried for endangering the reputation of the nation and ability of the nation to engage in foreign affairs?

Is this not a form of treason?
 
barbos said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/us-france-wikileaks-idUSKBN0P32EM20150623
Merkel must have called Hollande and told him "Welcome to the club"

Makes you wonder if US spied on british too? no way, right?
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Since the Cold War started the US has spied on everybody. I´m pretty sure the French also thouht they were being spied on. But it´s hard being upset unless they have evidence. If they don´t have evidence it´ll just blow up in their faces. But now they do, so they are playing the victim card for all it´s worth.

But intelligence gathering is normal and expected, There´s only one way to know that your allies are holding their end of bargains. Everybody always spies on everybody. But there´s a fine line between informing oneself and being intrusive. USA is like the rich kid at a school party who lacks all social graces and just keeps overstepping and makes a complete fool of himself. But because he´s rich people keep putting up with him and inviting him to parties.

The problem with this American attitude is that it sets the standard for what is acceptable for others. It´s now harder for USA now to criticise Putin or Xi Jinping. Each one of these fuck-ups erodes the moral position of USA. We do NOT want a diplomatic situation where everybody assumes that anything goes and they sit around being polite to one another.

edit: also, French behaviour internationally after WW2 has been atrocious. The stuff they did in Algeria is not cool. Vietnam... bad. So they should really STFU
 
Nice Squirrel said:
Why not spy on others?
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There´s carefully collecting information to make sure that your allies are honest. And then there´s tapping their phones to catch everything they ever say. The first is cool. The second isn´t. Both are spying.
 
"The French people have a right to know that their elected government is subject to hostile surveillance from a supposed ally," WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said in the statement, adding that more "important revelations" would soon follow.
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How do you make surveillance 'hostile' surveillance? Do you make faces at the subjects when they can't see you?

Or when they DO see you but pretend they don't?
 
Before this came out, was there someone in France who didn't think the US was tapping into its President's phone?
 
I really don't see what the issue here is. Unless Hollande or Merkel was speaking in English, no one in the US would have understood what they were saying.
 
It shouldn't be a surprise that any nation is spying on any other nation. Certainly, no nation should be surprised that the US is spying on them, since it is well known that the US spies on ourselves (see any article written on the NSA in the past decade). Spying is no shame, everyone does it, and if a nation doesn't then that's their shame. The real shame in spying is getting caught, which means you aren't doing it very well. Unfortunately the US has been getting caught entirely too often lately, our spies really need to step up their game.
 
KeepTalking said:
It shouldn't be a surprise that any nation is spying on any other nation. Certainly, no nation should be surprised that the US is spying on them, since it is well known that the US spies on ourselves (see any article written on the NSA in the past decade). Spying is no shame, everyone does it, and if a nation doesn't then that's their shame. The real shame in spying is getting caught, which means you aren't doing it very well. Unfortunately the US has been getting caught entirely too often lately, our spies really need to step up their game.
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Spying sucks. Imagine you're a good spouse but you sometimes get a little on the side. Your partner does too. So when you spy you mess up the arrangement. Same goes for nations. Just because some abuse trust is no license to eliminate trust. We should be able to withstand a Pearl Harbor now and again with all that money we're spending on De-fence ferchrissake.

Do you really appreciate tanks being used by your police department? That's fear brought about by mistrust. Look at the Bobbies. See. No tanks for cops. They need to call in a special unit detached from local authorities after they get legal permission. Apparently we now fuck that idea over here.
 
fromderinside said:
KeepTalking said:
It shouldn't be a surprise that any nation is spying on any other nation. Certainly, no nation should be surprised that the US is spying on them, since it is well known that the US spies on ourselves (see any article written on the NSA in the past decade). Spying is no shame, everyone does it, and if a nation doesn't then that's their shame. The real shame in spying is getting caught, which means you aren't doing it very well. Unfortunately the US has been getting caught entirely too often lately, our spies really need to step up their game.
Click to expand...

Spying sucks. Imagine you're a good spouse but you sometimes get a little on the side. Your partner does too. So when you spy you mess up the arrangement. Same goes for nations. Just because some abuse trust is no license to eliminate trust. We should be able to withstand a Pearl Harbor now and again with all that money we're spending on De-fence ferchrissake.

Do you really appreciate tanks being used by your police department? That's fear brought about by mistrust. Look at the Bobbies. See. No tanks for cops. They need to call in a special unit detached from local authorities after they get legal permission. Apparently we now fuck that idea over here.
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I don't think that the mistrust and fear that is driving the militarization of police in the US has anything to do with spying. It is caused by terrorism, political demonization, and racism. Militarization of the police is a legitimate gripe, but it has nothing to do with spying.
 
DrZoidberg said:
But intelligence gathering is normal and expected, There´s only one way to know that your allies are holding their end of bargains. Everybody always spies on everybody.
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Some do not have the resources to spy on others. If you make it to a position of power from a position of weakness, be sure that you have internal neurologics (spytech) that allow your thoughts to be monitored, or at the very least every move you make is recorded.
 
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