Future of human genetic engineering, class divides, and race divides

[AthenaAwakened]

Not practical...someone still has to clean the toilets and collect the garbage.

There will still be people to do that - we'll just have to pay them more to do so (since the opportunity cost is higher). We'll also need to work on more automation for these kind of tasks. Self cleaning toilets maybe?

and what is stopping us from paying them more now?

is it that we don't value them now so until we can make them better (give them better genes), we get to treat them like shit? only the Aryans deserve better wages?

The idea of getting rid of an inheritable medical condition is one thing and it's a good thing. But engineering the next step in evolution, creating a species of supermen, that is a whole different thing.

 

[Axulus]

and what is stopping us from paying them more now?

Nothing is "stopping" anyone - people can pay whatever they want. Generally though, people shop around for the best deal on the things they buy. Don't you?

is it that we don't value them now so until we can make them better (give them better genes), we get to treat them like shit? only the Aryans deserve better wages?

When I buy something, I don't make any value judgment on those responsible for selling it. I just want the thing I'm buying as cheap as possible and don't want to pay more than I have to. You are obsessed with this idea that "the only value people have is determined by how much money they earn." I categorically reject that idea.

Also, paying someone wages and how we treat them are two completely different things. You seem unable to de-link the two.

The idea of getting rid of an inheritable medical condition is one thing and it's a good thing. But engineering the next step in evolution, creating a species of supermen, that is a whole different thing.

Indeed - it will be quite a number of years after the former is available before we see the latter.

 

[bleubird]

The cost of many these procedures are are still beyond the financial ability of many families. Which is the point of this exercise: an impending class divide between those who are genetically enhanced and those who cannot afford to buy. There probably being a greater number who fall into the latter class.

I can easily imagine a scenario where those who are those who are unable to afford the procedure can have a loan taken out, to be paid back by the genetically modified individual in the form of higher tax rates. Because they are genetically modified, their income is expected to be higher than without the modifications and, since it is based on tax rates, they only have to pay for it if their income is in fact higher.

I can easily imagine someone typing something before they think about what they are typing.

 

[Axulus]

I can easily imagine a scenario where those who are those who are unable to afford the procedure can have a loan taken out, to be paid back by the genetically modified individual in the form of higher tax rates. Because they are genetically modified, their income is expected to be higher than without the modifications and, since it is based on tax rates, they only have to pay for it if their income is in fact higher.

I can easily imagine someone typing something before they think about what they are typing.

I can also easily imagine someone typing a bunch of nonsense when their bleeding heart tells them they don't like it, but they can't figure out why.

 

[ksen]

Can we genetically engineer better social contacts for people? Because, honestly, that'll gaurantee better job and earning prospects than modified intelligence.

 

[DBT]

I can easily imagine someone typing something before they think about what they are typing.

I can also easily imagine someone typing a bunch of nonsense when their bleeding heart tells them they don't like it, but they can't figure out why.

What you said was reasonable, but missing a crucial factor: self interest.
Self interest, looking after number one and everything associated with number one, family, friends, tribe, nation, etc, being a major factor that shapes our world. One being inequality in the form of 50% the World's wealth being in the hands of 1% of the World's population, with the gap ever widening. So unless a genetic modification is performed that enables empathy and faireness to rule, nothing is going to change. Making some people smarter, healthier and living longer, won't eliminate self interest.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I can easily imagine someone typing something before they think about what they are typing.

I can also easily imagine someone typing a bunch of nonsense when their bleeding heart tells them they don't like it, but they can't figure out why.

oh, gee

why would my bleeding heart (which bleeds because it is made of flesh and not stone) worry about a group people improving the genetic stock of the species?

oh yeah

a little thing called

EUGENICS.

or has the species evolved beyond thinking that some people are more equal than others?

 

[bleubird]

I can also easily imagine someone typing a bunch of nonsense when their bleeding heart tells them they don't like it, but they can't figure out why.

What you said was reasonable, but missing a crucial factor: self interest.
Self interest, looking after number one and everything associated with number one, family, friends, tribe, nation, etc, being a major factor that shapes our world. One being inequality in the form of 50% the World's wealth being in the hands of 1% of the World's population, with the gap ever widening. So unless a genetic modification is performed that enables empathy and faireness to rule, nothing is going to change. Making some people smarter, healthier and living longer, won't eliminate self interest.

Self interest:survival of the fittest,dog eat dog,each man for himself.self made man.American dream.

Bleeding heart:We are who we are because we worked together,

The whole idea of designer babies is repugnant and elitist.And the weird proposal that people take out a loan to pay for genetic enhancement based on future earnings is science fiction.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Chinese geneticists have genetically engineered a non-viable human embryo to fix a genetic disease.

Americans: "You can't do that!"

Chinese: "We just did."

Americans: "But you shouldn't do that!"

Chinese: "You can keep your shouldn'ts, they are not our shouldn'ts."

http://www.nature.com/news/chinese-scientists-genetically-modify-human-embryos-1.17378

 

[Togo]

I know a bit about genetics, molecular genetics and using genetics to determine treatment options for various diseases and disorders as well as using stem cells to treat individuals. I also know a bit about immunology. I am fascinated and excited by the potential for molecular genetics and immunology to help overcome many serious illnesses and disorders. I'm all in favor of that. Good things are happening now and will only continue. But it's very, very expensive.

But, I'm wondering why all of those who think that human genetic engineering can be developed to remedy supposed genetic mutations and disorders which result in lower intelligence for some would be undertaken when society has shown itself to be quite opposed to taking necessary actions to maximize the intelligence of individual humans with strategies and tools which have been in existence for many, many years now? Namely:

1. Providing adequate nutrition and calories, starting before the baby is conceived in order to allow the mother to best provide support for the pregnancy and developing fetus all the way through adulthood, including old age. Malnutrition strikes hardest at the youngest and the oldest. Young children who lack adequate nutrition will have a much greater likelihood of delayed development and intellectual gaps. Older adults who suffer from malnutrition also can have significant cognitive deficits. Why not simply do a better job ensuring everyone has access to good, nutritious food? Why not work harder to eliminate junk food which provides empty calories and increases the likelihood of diabetes, high blood pressure and other diseases which have deleterious effect on health and cognition?

2. Providing access to clean, reliable sources of potable drinking water. This alone would reduce the world wide disease burden significantly, including reducing many parasitic diseases which have negative impacts on health and cognition.

3. Provide universal heath care.

4. Provide universal education.

5. Reduce/eliminate drug trafficking and substance abuse, because substance abuse and the violence and diverting of valuable resources to produce intoxicants has serious deleterious effects on health, cognition and welfare of human beings, particularly for infants and children.

6. Performing the first 5 on the list would go a long way to eliminating armed conflict. And eliminating armed conflict would go a long way towards ensuring the first 5.

We would be much better served if we concentrated on those 6 things above and yes, explored genetics as a way of healing and preventing illnesses and disorders but unless we can engineer some gene that will get the world population to get its collective head out of its ass and start actually caring for the people we have, who the fuck cares about designer babies?

The way I see it, it is like a choice between:

(1) Taking a junk Honda Civic into a garage and fixing it up into a good Honda Civic.
(2) Stealing a Ferrari.

You think the best way to have a fast car is to steal the shiniest one you can see, feed it the cheapest petrol, and never service it ever again?

My uncle makes kit cars. He custom chooses his own parts, each one selected for the highest performance. Clearly his cars are the fastest in the world, right? Right? Like ass they are.

When robots first became popular, there was a lot of hype about them being faster, stronger, tougher than people. But they're not, are they?

 

[Togo]

Not practical...someone still has to clean the toilets and collect the garbage.

There will still be people to do that - we'll just have to pay them more to do so (since the opportunity cost is higher). We'll also need to work on more automation for these kind of tasks. Self cleaning toilets maybe?

Why bother? Just genetically engineer people so they enjoy cleaning toilets. Problem solved.

Heck, why bother with intelligence? Given that performance is a combination of environment and genes, you'd get the same benefit improving working conditions, and no one seems eager to spend money on that except for a few at the top. I realise it's not as sexy, but it's the same science, and technically a more powerful observed effect.

Or you could just ignore performance altogether. Rather than trying to build utopia, a dangerous and expensive undertaking with much unpleasantness, it would be much easier to just engineer people to regard whatever exists now as utopia. Need more taxes? Just engineer people to get a sexual thrill out of giving their money to the government. Need better workers - engineer restlessness and a fear of leisure time, or deep emotional commitment. This is all much easier, quicker, and more effective than what you're proposing. Better yet, society would never need to evolve ever again. Which is just as well, since that would leave all your finely tuned genetic constructs high and dry when the environment changed on them.

Of course the reason we aren't going for a genetically engineered utopia, why it doesn't sound all that attractive, is for exactly the same reason that we didn't go for Skinner's environmentally engineered utopia back in the 50s. As soon as you stop going all starry-eyed about vague promises of limitless wealth and happiness, and start working out all the practical details, it all starts falling apart.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Jay, another experiment more recently has genetically-engineered mice to become more intelligent. More info here:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/uol-mr081315.php

 

[Trausti]

Jay, another experiment more recently has genetically-engineered mice to become more intelligent. More info here:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/uol-mr081315.php

Excellent.