God and Nature - Question for Christians

[Cheerful Charlie]

Isaiah 11
⁶ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
⁷ And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
⁸ And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
⁹ They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
¹⁰ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

If God can make nature good, eliminate suffering, predation, pain, disease and parasites, why doesn't God go ahead and do it now?
What's God waiting for?

 

[Lion IRC]

Good question.
How might God put an end to greed - which leads to the suffering of millions.
And hatred which gives rise to assault and murder.
And lust for power which perpetuates war after war after war.
And egotistical selfishness which puts sexual pleasure ahead of the sanctity of life.

The rich and the powerful and greedy and the lustful gluttons of this world don't see any reason for God to act.

And theres plenty of atheists who nonetheless still bring children into a world where suffering exists. What's their excuse for failing to prevent avoidable suffering?

 

[jonJ]

[FONT=&quot]The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep.

Woody Allen
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/woodyallen136697.html

[/FONT]

 

[Learner]

If God can make nature good, eliminate suffering, predation, pain, disease and parasites, why doesn't God go ahead and do it now? What's God waiting for?

Concerning Christians I see regularly many sermons and hear what is often preached today, as you must know , the belief that we are in the 'last days'. Now I for one could not say (nor they) whether this meant tomorrow , next week, next year and so on. However Christians are waiting for the very thing of better days in Christs return.

As Lion IRC pointed out. Obviously greed and Power throughout mans history needs to have 'unfortunate' people at the bottom in order for this type of sytematic design to work. Well thought out for a time... but not an advantage for everyone.

Besides the mere understanding of how one takes seriously his or her diet results in the most incredible results of health. We know it but can't help ourselves.( lol especally me.) God has always provided the means in our environments is my religious perspective.

 

[bigfield]

And theres plenty of atheists who nonetheless still bring children into a world where suffering exists. What's their excuse for failing to prevent avoidable suffering?

For one thing, humans are not omnibenevolent, therefore it comes as no surprise that we inflict suffering.

 

[iolo]

Good question.
How might God put an end to greed - which leads to the suffering of millions.
And hatred which gives rise to assault and murder.
And lust for power which perpetuates war after war after war.
And egotistical selfishness which puts sexual pleasure ahead of the sanctity of life.

The rich and the powerful and greedy and the lustful gluttons of this world don't see any reason for God to act.

And theres plenty of atheists who nonetheless still bring children into a world where suffering exists. What's their excuse for failing to prevent avoidable suffering?

Inadequate contraception/education thereupon?

 

[iolo]

Isaiah 11
⁶ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
⁷ And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
⁸ And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
⁹ They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
¹⁰ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

If God can make nature good, eliminate suffering, predation, pain, disease and parasites, why doesn't God go ahead and do it now?
What's God waiting for?

I suppose its a bit like being asked to picture life after the Revolution: the great thing is to avoid metaphors - people take them literally.

 

[skepticalbip]

Isaiah 11
⁶ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
⁷ And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
⁸ And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
⁹ They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
¹⁰ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

If God can make nature good, eliminate suffering, predation, pain, disease and parasites, why doesn't God go ahead and do it now?
What's God waiting for?

As I see it the problem is that Christians have created an omni-god so are forced to ascribe mutually contradictory attributes for him. Take omnipotent and omnibenevolent then look at reality. Life is full of suffering so either god can be omnipotent but a fucking sadist or he can be omnibenevolent but powerless to eliminate suffering but not both omnipotent and omnibenevolent. It seems that the only god that makes sense is one that doesn't give a shit.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Isaiah 11
⁶ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
⁷ And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
⁸ And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
⁹ They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
¹⁰ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

If God can make nature good, eliminate suffering, predation, pain, disease and parasites, why doesn't God go ahead and do it now?
What's God waiting for?

As I see it the problem is that Christians have created an omni-god so are forced to ascribe mutually contradictory attributes for him. Take omnipotent and omnibenevolent then look at reality. Life is full of suffering so either god can be omnipotent but a fucking sadist or he can be omnibenevolent but powerless to eliminate suffering but not both omnipotent and omnibenevolent. It seems that the only god that makes sense is one that doesn't give a shit.

Lots of creationist, fundy types tell us before the fall, the introduction of original sin, all creatures were vegetarians. Cats did not kill mice, lions did not kill and eat cute little lambs et al.

So God made animals into carnivores because of Adam. weird idea. God takes Adam's sin out on innocent little fuzzy animals. There seems to be something wrong with their God. Does this make sense to anybody here? And of course, according to the OT, God liked the smell of burning animals. Is this why God created forest fires?

 

[James Brown]

Similarly...

If God could influence the conception of Mary, so that she was born without sin and incapable of error (so sayeth the Catholics)...

...why couldn't he do the same for everybody?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Similarly...

If God could influence the conception of Mary, so that she was born without sin and incapable of error (so sayeth the Catholics)...

...why couldn't he do the same for everybody?

Maybe the one thing that distinguishes humans from other species is their ability to make up stupid shit, like stories about magic spacemen interested in their sex organs.

 

[DBT]

Similarly...

If God could influence the conception of Mary, so that she was born without sin and incapable of error (so sayeth the Catholics)...

...why couldn't he do the same for everybody?

Let's see, what does the bible tell us about that;

“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,” - Romans 9:21-23