Hamas is much more effective killing Gazans than Israelis

[Derec]

We have reports of Hamas killing anti-Hamas protesters as well as alleged "collaborators" with Israel (how many are actual collaborators and how many merely victims of the paranoia inherent in all totalitarian regimes is unknown):
Report: Hamas executes alleged spies, shoots protesters in Gaza
And then there are their own rockets that fall short. Due to the high number of rockets shot by Hamas over the last 3 weeks and the fact that some 10-20% don't make it out of Gaza that means hundreds of rockets fell within Gaza during these latest hostilities.
10 Palestinians killed in failed Gazan rocket attack on Israel, IDF says

 

[untermensche]

Did Hamas invent killing spies and collaborators with people that are trying to kill you?

Or do we have another thread that is nothing but a rationalization for a double standard?

 

[Derec]

Did Hamas invent killing spies and collaborators with people that are trying to kill you?

No, but they could be the first armed force in history that is more adept at killing their own people than killing the enemy. Keystone Terrorists if you will.

Or do we have another thread that is nothing but a rationalization for a double standard?

What double standard? Otoh, I am sure rationalization of Hamas actions is getting harder by the day for the "all Hamas actions are legitimate resistance" crowd.

 

[untermensche]

No, but they could be the first armed force in history that is more adept at killing their own people than killing the enemy. Keystone Terrorists if you will.

Or do we have another thread that is nothing but a rationalization for a double standard?

What double standard? Otoh, I am sure rationalization of Hamas actions is getting harder by the day for the "all Hamas actions are legitimate resistance" crowd.

Of course it is legitimate resistance.

The Israeli oppression is deep and it is real and it has lasted for 50 years.

And your premise is a premise of a third grader. Of course Israel is far better at killing than Hamas. They have done so much more of it.

Israel is better at oppressing millions too.

 

[EricK]

And your premise is a premise of a third grader. Of course Israel is far better at killing than Hamas. They have done so much more of it.

Due to English nouns not having a case structure, you have misunderstood Derec's claim.

 

[untermensche]

And your premise is a premise of a third grader. Of course Israel is far better at killing than Hamas. They have done so much more of it.

Due to English nouns not having a case structure, you have misunderstood Derec's claim.

It's still a premise of a third grader.

"Look daddy, that man with a rock isn't very good at killing that man with a helicopter."

 

[Derec]

"Look daddy, that man with a rock isn't very good at killing that man with a helicopter."

No, it's "look daddy, that man with ten thousand Iranian and homemade artillery rockets is killing way more of his own people with them than they are killing of the enemy" and "that man with AK-47 is killing his own people because they are protesting his totalitarian rule". That 3rd grader is way smarter than the "Hamas can do no wrong" crowd.

Hamas is not shooting at the man in the helicopter. They are shooting at Israeli civilians. Just like they used to use suicide bombers (aka guided missiles) to blow up restaurants, school buses, shopping malls etc. and not IDF targets.

And as to your position that all Hamas actions are "legitimate resistance" I have no words so I will just let that speak for itself.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The OP title can be read two different ways. untermensche thinks it says Hamas is better at killing Gazans than Israelis are at killing Gazans, not literally that Hamas is better at killing Gazans than Hamas is at killing Israelis.

 

[Archimedes]

Due to English nouns not having a case structure, you have misunderstood Derec's claim.

It's still a premise of a third grader.

"Look daddy, that man with a rock isn't very good at killing that man with a helicopter."

No, the OP is saying "Hamas is better at killing Gazans than they are at killing Israelis" not "Hamas is better at killing Gazans than Israeli is at killing Gazans"

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have reports of Hamas killing anti-Hamas protesters as well as alleged "collaborators" with Israel (how many are actual collaborators and how many merely victims of the paranoia inherent in all totalitarian regimes is unknown):

Not to mention how many are simply people they don't like.


And to support your position you have to count human shield deaths, something I don't think makes sense for this metric.

 

[blastula]

We have reports of Hamas killing anti-Hamas protesters as well as alleged "collaborators" with Israel (how many are actual collaborators and how many merely victims of the paranoia inherent in all totalitarian regimes is unknown):
Report: Hamas executes alleged spies, shoots protesters in Gaza
And then there are their own rockets that fall short. Due to the high number of rockets shot by Hamas over the last 3 weeks and the fact that some 10-20% don't make it out of Gaza that means hundreds of rockets fell within Gaza during these latest hostilities.
10 Palestinians killed in failed Gazan rocket attack on Israel, IDF says

Show your math.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have reports of Hamas killing anti-Hamas protesters as well as alleged "collaborators" with Israel (how many are actual collaborators and how many merely victims of the paranoia inherent in all totalitarian regimes is unknown):

Not to mention how many are simply people they don't like.


And to support your position you have to count human shield deaths, something I don't think makes sense for this metric.

Alright. So 10% of deaths are civilians who weren't killed by Hamas. We are still looking at a 4 to 1 ratio between Palestinian civilian and Israeli solider. We don't want to look at the Palestinian civilian to Israeli civilian ratio.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

No, but they could be the first armed force in history that is more adept at killing their own people than killing the enemy.

Nope. The Red Army at the Battle of Stalingrad still holds the world record for team kills.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not to mention how many are simply people they don't like.


And to support your position you have to count human shield deaths, something I don't think makes sense for this metric.

Alright. So 10% of deaths are civilians who weren't killed by Hamas. We are still looking at a 4 to 1 ratio between Palestinian civilian and Israeli solider. We don't want to look at the Palestinian civilian to Israeli civilian ratio.

Except we don't have a good count on the civilians.

Israel and some private sources do something of a count by matching up the dead with terrorist rosters--and over time this tends to agree with the combatant casualty figures the terrorists themselves list.

However, AFIAK nobody identifies the quasi-combatants: The voluntary human shields and those put in harm's way by their parents.

 

[maxparrish]

Not to mention how many are simply people they don't like.


And to support your position you have to count human shield deaths, something I don't think makes sense for this metric.

Alright. So 10% of deaths are civilians who weren't killed by Hamas. We are still looking at a 4 to 1 ratio between Palestinian civilian and Israeli solider. We don't want to look at the Palestinian civilian to Israeli civilian ratio.

Why shiould we care?

 

[Ford]

Alright. So 10% of deaths are civilians who weren't killed by Hamas. We are still looking at a 4 to 1 ratio between Palestinian civilian and Israeli solider. We don't want to look at the Palestinian civilian to Israeli civilian ratio.

Why shiould we care?

There are people - and I realize this may shock you - who consider folks with brown skin to be human beings as well, and as such their deaths are terrible.

 

[Derec]

There are people - and I realize this may shock you - who consider folks with brown skin to be human beings as well, and as such their deaths are terrible.

Israelis and Palestinians tend to be rather similar in hue.

 

[Ford]

There are people - and I realize this may shock you - who consider folks with brown skin to be human beings as well, and as such their deaths are terrible.

Israelis and Palestinians tend to be rather similar in hue.

My comment wasn't directed at you, but please...feel free to jump in and explain why you think Palestinians' lives are not as important as those of Israelis.

 

[Derec]

My comment wasn't directed at you, but please...feel free to jump in and explain why you think Palestinians' lives are not as important as those of Israelis.

My objection was to you reducing everything to skin color.

 

[Ford]

My comment wasn't directed at you, but please...feel free to jump in and explain why you think Palestinians' lives are not as important as those of Israelis.

My objection was to you reducing everything to skin color.

Well thank goodness you've never posted anything along racial lines.