Happy Juneteenth one and all!

[ideologyhunter]

A country without a conscience gets...Trump.

 

[Mumbles]

Yeah, it just marks the day when the last of the slaves were freed. What's the big deal? We all know the slaves were freed. No controversy there. I do wonder if making it a federal holiday is going to make our current racial divide worse though. People are going to exploit it for their own political ends, so if for some reason you're not 100% on board with it, you're going to be branded a racist. And it you make too big a deal about Juneteenth, you'll come across as just trying to pile on even more white guilt.

Except...


You then have to explain *why* there was a racist, brutal system of chattel slavery, and if you want to be honest, that this was when the Emancipation Proclamation was *enforced*, not just when people heard of it (they knew of it very quickly due to southerners in other states sending the people they enslaved to Texas where they were what the slavers considered "safe", those who tried to enforce it before Juneteenth were chased pout or killed). And that means explaining that the Civil War was the south committing treason to expand slavery - whoops, someone's now offended because you're discussing slavery, and not talking about "State's Rights", and so forth.

So, can't teach the actual history of Juneteenth. Or he civil war. Or Reconstruction and it's end.

Says who? This is so dishonest.

What's dishonest about it? If some parents say "I don't like that", then it's controversial. If some kid's upset because he says "slavers were white, teacher says they're bad, I'm white and thus bad." That's another problem.

Oh it also says you can't teach the idea that one race is superior to another. Not that you can't teach it as fact (nobody does this), but the very *idea*. No teaching about the base idea behind slavery/Jim Crow/etc. Whoops.

That's the fun os vague, shitty laws.

 

[Metaphor]

It appears you didn't understand the question.

Would you care to show a single jurisdiction that has actually outlawed teachers explaining Juneteenth to children?

How do you explain what Juneteenth is without explaining the history of slavery?

Are you now suggesting that outlawing the teaching of CRT means you are outlawing the teaching of historical facts like slavery? CRT emerged in academia in the 1970s and since American schoolchildren were somehow taught about slavery before CRT was formulated, banning CRT does not mean banning the teaching of the meaning of Juneteenth.

Honestly, I expected a "is that the best you've got, Trevor Noah and Joy Reid are not the left, nobody on the left really believes teaching the origin of Juneteenth is outlawed, turn off your right wing outrage news aggregator" but instead I got people actually defending the absurd idea that it is outlawed.

 

[laughing dog]

It appears you didn't understand the question.

Would you care to show a single jurisdiction that has actually outlawed teachers explaining Juneteenth to children?

How do you explain what Juneteenth is without explaining the history of slavery?

Are you now suggesting that outlawing the teaching of CRT means you are outlawing the teaching of historical facts like slavery? CRT emerged in academia in the 1970s and since American schoolchildren were somehow taught about slavery before CRT was formulated, banning CRT does not mean banning the teaching of the meaning of Juneteenth.

Honestly, I expected a "is that the best you've got, Trevor Noah and Joy Reid are not the left, nobody on the left really believes teaching the origin of Juneteenth is outlawed, turn off your right wing outrage news aggregator" but instead I got people actually defending the absurd idea that it is outlawed.

I suggest you read Mumbles' take (post 38) in this thread. Whether it is "outlawed" or whether the topic of US slavery is sufficiently watered down to become virtually meaningless is a real possibility given hypersensitivity of many conservative and white snowflakes (like our former President).

 

[Bomb#20]

Bingo.

I'd never heard of Juneteenth until I joined the NAACP.
Explaining it in broad strokes is really easy. I'm sure schools could manage it as easily as describing Thanksgiving or Presidents Day.
Tom

Yeah, it just marks the day when the last of the slaves were freed. What's the big deal? We all know the slaves were freed. No controversy there.

It isn't that day, though. Juneteenth marks the day when the slaves of Texas were freed. The last slaves were freed on December 18 when the 13th Amendment went into effect. Juneteenth became a cultural thing presumably because there were an awful lot more slaves in Texas than in Delaware and Kentucky; or maybe it's because an order by a conquering general is a lot more dramatic than some bureaucrat certifying a ratification count.

 

[Metaphor]

Are you now suggesting that outlawing the teaching of CRT means you are outlawing the teaching of historical facts like slavery? CRT emerged in academia in the 1970s and since American schoolchildren were somehow taught about slavery before CRT was formulated, banning CRT does not mean banning the teaching of the meaning of Juneteenth.

Honestly, I expected a "is that the best you've got, Trevor Noah and Joy Reid are not the left, nobody on the left really believes teaching the origin of Juneteenth is outlawed, turn off your right wing outrage news aggregator" but instead I got people actually defending the absurd idea that it is outlawed.

I suggest you read Mumbles' take (post 38) in this thread. Whether it is "outlawed" or whether the topic of US slavery is sufficiently watered down to become virtually meaningless is a real possibility given hypersensitivity of many conservative and white snowflakes (like our former President).

There is no evidence that the Texas bill does that
https://brazosjournal.com/2021/06/1...lamming-the-door-on-teaching-racism-in-texas/

House Bill 3979 was signed by Abbott on Tuesday and is set to take effect on September 1. The bill doesn’t name CRT in precise verbiage but does effectively neuter any chance it can take hold in a school by addressing its goals and methods.
For instance, it prohibits schools from teaching that “an individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of the individual ’s race or sex” nor does it allow schools to push the idea that “an individual, by virtue of the individual’s race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.”
It does embrace actual American values being taught in schools, such as the philosophies of Martin Luther King Jr. through his “I Have a Dream” speech and his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” It also requires that students do, in fact, learn about white supremacy, slavery, and eugenics but only in “the ways in which it is morally wrong.”

 

[laughing dog]

There is no evidence that the Texas bill does that
https://brazosjournal.com/2021/06/1...lamming-the-door-on-teaching-racism-in-texas/

House Bill 3979 was signed by Abbott on Tuesday and is set to take effect on September 1. The bill doesn’t name CRT in precise verbiage but does effectively neuter any chance it can take hold in a school by addressing its goals and methods.
For instance, it prohibits schools from teaching that “an individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of the individual ’s race or sex” nor does it allow schools to push the idea that “an individual, by virtue of the individual’s race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.”
It does embrace actual American values being taught in schools, such as the philosophies of Martin Luther King Jr. through his “I Have a Dream” speech and his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” It also requires that students do, in fact, learn about white supremacy, slavery, and eugenics but only in “the ways in which it is morally wrong.”

Seems to that explanation provides evidence to support yhe white snowflake distress fear.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Bush: Juneteenth freedom also means safety from police violence - "The original Juneteenth focused on promise of freedom from bondage and white supremacy. As we usher in new national holiday, let's expand that fight."

That's Rep. Cori Bush MO-01.

Where I’m from in St. Louis, we’re dying. Over a seven-year period ending in 2020, our city has led the nation in police killings. And last year, the city had its highest homicide rate in half a century. If we haven’t lost a loved one to violence ourselves, someone we know certainly has. We survive domestic violence, we survive carjackings, we survive shootings, we survive state violence. It’s something that we live through routinely.

It’s not just cycles of violence that stem from slavery – slavery quite literally lives on today through our system of incarceration and policing. The 13th Amendment explicitly permits slavery “as a punishment for crime.” It is no wonder then that Black people and Black communities across this country are devastated by yet another system of bondage – policing and criminalization.

...
As it stands today, armed law enforcement agents, who lack expertise in health crises, are the first to respond to a variety of health emergencies, including those resulting from substance use and mental health issues. There are serious, and sometimes deadly consequences when police are asked to make instantaneous decisions involving people experiencing crises associated with mental health or other health complications. People with untreated mental health disorders have a risk of being killed when encountering police that is 16 times higher than those without.

 

[Metaphor]

There is no evidence that the Texas bill does that
https://brazosjournal.com/2021/06/1...lamming-the-door-on-teaching-racism-in-texas/

House Bill 3979 was signed by Abbott on Tuesday and is set to take effect on September 1. The bill doesn’t name CRT in precise verbiage but does effectively neuter any chance it can take hold in a school by addressing its goals and methods.
For instance, it prohibits schools from teaching that “an individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of the individual ’s race or sex” nor does it allow schools to push the idea that “an individual, by virtue of the individual’s race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.”
It does embrace actual American values being taught in schools, such as the philosophies of Martin Luther King Jr. through his “I Have a Dream” speech and his “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” It also requires that students do, in fact, learn about white supremacy, slavery, and eugenics but only in “the ways in which it is morally wrong.”

Seems to that explanation provides evidence to support yhe white snowflake distress fear.

??

 

[Trausti]

Rep. Bush: Juneteenth freedom also means safety from police violence - "The original Juneteenth focused on promise of freedom from bondage and white supremacy. As we usher in new national holiday, let's expand that fight."

That's Rep. Cori Bush MO-01.

Where I’m from in St. Louis, we’re dying. Over a seven-year period ending in 2020, our city has led the nation in police killings. And last year, the city had its highest homicide rate in half a century. If we haven’t lost a loved one to violence ourselves, someone we know certainly has. We survive domestic violence, we survive carjackings, we survive shootings, we survive state violence. It’s something that we live through routinely.

It’s not just cycles of violence that stem from slavery – slavery quite literally lives on today through our system of incarceration and policing. The 13th Amendment explicitly permits slavery “as a punishment for crime.” It is no wonder then that Black people and Black communities across this country are devastated by yet another system of bondage – policing and criminalization.

...
As it stands today, armed law enforcement agents, who lack expertise in health crises, are the first to respond to a variety of health emergencies, including those resulting from substance use and mental health issues. There are serious, and sometimes deadly consequences when police are asked to make instantaneous decisions involving people experiencing crises associated with mental health or other health complications. People with untreated mental health disorders have a risk of being killed when encountering police that is 16 times higher than those without.

The homicide rate in St. Louis has exploded and this dipshit attacks the police. Happy Juneteenth!

 

[Mumbles]

It appears you didn't understand the question.

Would you care to show a single jurisdiction that has actually outlawed teachers explaining Juneteenth to children?

How do you explain what Juneteenth is without explaining the history of slavery?

Are you now suggesting that outlawing the teaching of CRT means you are outlawing the teaching of historical facts like slavery? CRT emerged in academia in the 1970s and since American schoolchildren were somehow taught about slavery before CRT was formulated, banning CRT does not mean banning the teaching of the meaning of Juneteenth.

Few of them even mention "Critical Race Theory", although many of them do mention "the 1619 Project" which is completely different. I note that the 1619 project is "divisive and racist" because it frames 1619 as the start of the US (when one marks the "start" of nthe US is of course arbitrary) and poresumably teaches that much of our infrastructure is designed to reinforce segregation (many of the architects said and wrote this repeatedly, oh no how racist and divisive ), and that our prison system is in part based on the desire to enslave people after the reconstruction amendments were passed (again,not a matter in dispute, how dare they teach well-known facts)

...you should find better sources.

 

[lpetrich]

The homicide rate in St. Louis has exploded and this dipshit attacks the police. Happy Juneteenth!

There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in Fox News.

 

[Mumbles]

The homicide rate in St. Louis has exploded and this dipshit attacks the police. Happy Juneteenth!

I mean, who wouldn't turn to their racist violent murderous police to protect them from harm even though this police force, like others in the US, likely has a dismal crime clearance rate in the low-mid single digits, and helped lay siege to a community in Ferguson not too long ago?

Anyway, I'm going to go enjoy the last of my juneteenth weekend without replying to this sort of jibber jabber. Later y'all!

 

[Metaphor]

Are you now suggesting that outlawing the teaching of CRT means you are outlawing the teaching of historical facts like slavery? CRT emerged in academia in the 1970s and since American schoolchildren were somehow taught about slavery before CRT was formulated, banning CRT does not mean banning the teaching of the meaning of Juneteenth.

Few of them even mention "Critical Race Theory", although many of them do mention "the 1619 Project" which is completely different. I note that the 1619 project is "divisive and racist" because it frames 1619 as the start of the US (when one marks the "start" of nthe US is of course arbitrary) and poresumably teaches that much of our infrastructure is designed to reinforce segregation (many of the architects said and wrote this repeatedly, oh no how racist and divisive ), and that our prison system is in part based on the desire to enslave people after the reconstruction amendments were passed (again,not a matter in dispute, how dare they teach well-known facts)

...you should find better sources.

What on earth are you talking about?

Some prominent media figures on the left made a claim that teaching about Juneteenth was 'banned' in states that had passed certain bills aimed at banning some CRT ideas being taught to school children. The idea that this outlaws the teaching of the history of Juneteenth in these states is prima facie absurd.

 

[Trausti]

The homicide rate in St. Louis has exploded and this dipshit attacks the police. Happy Juneteenth!

I mean, who wouldn't turn to their racist violent murderous police to protect them from harm even though this police force, like others in the US, likely has a dismal crime clearance rate in the low-mid single digits, and helped lay siege to a community in Ferguson not too long ago?

Anyway, I'm going to go enjoy the last of my juneteenth weekend without replying to this sort of jibber jabber. Later y'all!

It is a robust finding in sociology that reduction in police enforcement results in higher crime. Most crime victims are low income/poor. In St. Louis that means black people. It you actually cared about the lives of marginalized people - and weren’t just engaging in sanctimonious virtue signaling - you’d want a strong police force. What’s the number? How many excess deaths (pretty much all black) have we seen since these attacks on police began in May 2020?

 

[laughing dog]

Seems to that explanation provides evidence to support yhe white snowflake distress fear.

??

That explanation is consistent with the fear that white snowflake distress over pointing out that white people in the USA instituted, supported, enshrined in law and enforced slavery.

 

[Trausti]

Seems to that explanation provides evidence to support yhe white snowflake distress fear.

??

That explanation is consistent with the fear that white snowflake distress over pointing out that white people in the USA instituted, supported, enshrined in law and enforced slavery.

Couldn’t have had this slavery if not for black-African slave traders. (And lets not forget the black and Indian slave owners.). So all black people are to blame. That’s how this works, right?

 

[laughing dog]

That explanation is consistent with the fear that white snowflake distress over pointing out that white people in the USA instituted, supported, enshrined in law and enforced slavery.

Couldn’t have had this slavery if not for black-African slave traders. (And lets not forget the black and Indian slave owners.). So all black people are to blame. That’s how this works, right?

Thanks for providing an example of the white snowflake defense mechanism in action.

 

[ZiprHead]

It appears you didn't understand the question.

Would you care to show a single jurisdiction that has actually outlawed teachers explaining Juneteenth to children?

How do you explain what Juneteenth is without explaining the history of slavery?

Are you now suggesting that outlawing the teaching of CRT means you are outlawing the teaching of historical facts like slavery? CRT emerged in academia in the 1970s and since American schoolchildren were somehow taught about slavery before CRT was formulated, banning CRT does not mean banning the teaching of the meaning of Juneteenth.

Honestly, I expected a "is that the best you've got, Trevor Noah and Joy Reid are not the left, nobody on the left really believes teaching the origin of Juneteenth is outlawed, turn off your right wing outrage news aggregator" but instead I got people actually defending the absurd idea that it is outlawed.

Nobody is teaching CRT in grade school.

 

[lpetrich]

Couldn’t have had this slavery if not for black-African slave traders. (And lets not forget the black and Indian slave owners.). So all black people are to blame. That’s how this works, right?

Trausti's argument seems to be "Why can't we honkies enslave people?"