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Heaven and Hell

steve_bank

Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
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secular-skeptic
What the hell is hell?

The idea of hell evolved with the ancient Jews. Heaven was up there and the dead went down there somewhere. It appears modern Christian hell began as the Greek myth Hades.

Hell as eternal torment probably comes from Dante.

Seems like there is no agreement on what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

She'ol (/ˈʃiːoʊl/ SHEE-ohl, /-əl/; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל‬ ʃeʾôl), in the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and from God.[1]

The inhabitants of Sheol are the "shades" (rephaim), entities without personality or strength.[2] Under some circumstances they are thought to be able to be contacted by the living, as the Witch of Endor contacts the shade of Samuel for Saul, but such practices are forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10).[3]

While the Hebrew Bible appears to describe Sheol as the permanent place of the dead, in the Second Temple period (roughly 500 BC–70 AD) a more diverse set of ideas developed. In some texts, Sheol is considered to be the home of both the righteous and the wicked, separated into respective compartments; in others, it was considered a place of punishment, meant for the wicked dead alone,[4] and is equated with Gehenna in the Talmud.[5] When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BC, the word "Hades" (the Greek underworld) was substituted for Sheol. This is reflected in the New Testament where Hades is both the underworld of the dead and the personification of the evil it represents.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)

nferno (pronounced [iɱ'fɛrno]; Italian for "Hell") is the first part of Dante Alighieri's 14th-century epic poem Divine Comedy. It is followed by Purgatorio and Paradiso. The Inferno tells the journey of Dante through Hell, guided by the ancient Roman poet Virgil. In the poem, Hell is depicted as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth; it is the "realm ... of those who have rejected spiritual values by yielding to bestial appetites or violence, or by perverting their human intellect to fraud or malice against their fellowmen".[1] As an allegory, the Divine Comedy represents the journey of the soul toward God, with the Inferno describing the recognition and rejection of sin.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell

In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which by God's definitive judgment unrepentant sinners pass either immediately after death (particular judgment) or in the general judgment.[1] Its character is inferred from teaching in the biblical texts, some of which, interpreted literally, have given rise to the popular idea of Hell.[1]

Theologians today generally see Hell as the logical consequence of using free will to reject union with God and, because God will not force conformity, not incompatible with God's justice and mercy.[1]

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "Hell" in most English-language Bibles. They include:

"Sheol" in the Hebrew Bible, and "Hades" in the New Testament. Many modern versions, such as the New International Version, translate Sheol as "grave" and simply transliterate "Hades". It is generally agreed that both sheol and hades do not typically refer to the place of eternal punishment, but to the grave, the temporary abode of the dead, the underworld.[2]
"Gehenna" in the New Testament, where it is described as a place where both soul and body could be destroyed (Matthew 10:28) in "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43). The word is translated as either "Hell" or "Hell fire" in many English versions.[3]
The Greek verb "ταρταρῶ (tartarō)", which occurs once in the New Testament (in 2 Peter 2:4), is almost always translated by a phrase such as "thrown down to hell". A few translations render it as "Tartarus"; of this term, the Holman Christian Standard Bible states: "Tartarus is a Greek name for a subterranean place of divine punishment lower than Hades."[2 Peter 2:4]
 
What the hell is hell?

The idea of hell evolved with the ancient Jews. Heaven was up there and the dead went down there somewhere. It appears modern Christian hell began as the Greek myth Hades.

Hell as eternal torment probably comes from Dante.

Seems like there is no agreement on what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

She'ol (/ˈʃiːoʊl/ SHEE-ohl, /-əl/; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל‬ ʃeʾôl), in the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and from God.[1]

The inhabitants of Sheol are the "shades" (rephaim), entities without personality or strength.[2] Under some circumstances they are thought to be able to be contacted by the living, as the Witch of Endor contacts the shade of Samuel for Saul, but such practices are forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10).[3]

While the Hebrew Bible appears to describe Sheol as the permanent place of the dead, in the Second Temple period (roughly 500 BC–70 AD) a more diverse set of ideas developed. In some texts, Sheol is considered to be the home of both the righteous and the wicked, separated into respective compartments; in others, it was considered a place of punishment, meant for the wicked dead alone,[4] and is equated with Gehenna in the Talmud.[5] When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in ancient Alexandria around 200 BC, the word "Hades" (the Greek underworld) was substituted for Sheol. This is reflected in the New Testament where Hades is both the underworld of the dead and the personification of the evil it represents.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)

nferno (pronounced [iɱ'fɛrno]; Italian for "Hell") is the first part of Dante Alighieri's 14th-century epic poem Divine Comedy. It is followed by Purgatorio and Paradiso. The Inferno tells the journey of Dante through Hell, guided by the ancient Roman poet Virgil. In the poem, Hell is depicted as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth; it is the "realm ... of those who have rejected spiritual values by yielding to bestial appetites or violence, or by perverting their human intellect to fraud or malice against their fellowmen".[1] As an allegory, the Divine Comedy represents the journey of the soul toward God, with the Inferno describing the recognition and rejection of sin.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell

In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which by God's definitive judgment unrepentant sinners pass either immediately after death (particular judgment) or in the general judgment.[1] Its character is inferred from teaching in the biblical texts, some of which, interpreted literally, have given rise to the popular idea of Hell.[1]

Theologians today generally see Hell as the logical consequence of using free will to reject union with God and, because God will not force conformity, not incompatible with God's justice and mercy.[1]

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "Hell" in most English-language Bibles. They include:

"Sheol" in the Hebrew Bible, and "Hades" in the New Testament. Many modern versions, such as the New International Version, translate Sheol as "grave" and simply transliterate "Hades". It is generally agreed that both sheol and hades do not typically refer to the place of eternal punishment, but to the grave, the temporary abode of the dead, the underworld.[2]
"Gehenna" in the New Testament, where it is described as a place where both soul and body could be destroyed (Matthew 10:28) in "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43). The word is translated as either "Hell" or "Hell fire" in many English versions.[3]
The Greek verb "ταρταρῶ (tartarō)", which occurs once in the New Testament (in 2 Peter 2:4), is almost always translated by a phrase such as "thrown down to hell". A few translations render it as "Tartarus"; of this term, the Holman Christian Standard Bible states: "Tartarus is a Greek name for a subterranean place of divine punishment lower than Hades."[2 Peter 2:4]

The above is one hell of summary of "endless" ideas about a place that does not exist.
Looking forward to the summary of ideas about non-existant heaven. :)
 
Goes to show how Christian theology and Jewish as well was pretty much made up as they went along.

Christians seem to believe transition to heaven or hell is immediate. Biblicy I thought in the judgement the dead are resurrected.
 
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But, but but, what about purgatory and limbo? What are they and how do I get out of purgatory and into heaven? Oh wait. My husband was a former Catholic and he said that if I'm only guilty of venial sins, I go to purgatory until somebody prays me into heaven. That makes sense. No, not really. It's those mortal sins that send you straight to hell. Oh wait. I just found out that if a priest gives you last rites, he can forgive you of your mortal sins and up you go. Woooooo! Now I know why one of his aunts didn't want to die suddenly. "No time for the priest", she said.

I think I like the Baha'i after life better. It's really vague and it doesn't include hell. Maybe their prophets knew it was pretend but didn't want people to think they were mortal so they invented this dreamy state that we all go to when we die. Religious mythology is very interesting even if it's all BS.
 
Here's the Baha'i take on heaven and hell.

http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/life-spirit/human-soul/heaven-hell


The Bahá’í teachings state that there is no such physical place as heaven or hell, and emphasise the eternal journey of the soul towards perfection. They explain that references to “heaven” and “hell” in the Holy Scriptures of other religions are to be understood symbolically, describing states of nearness to and distance from God in this world and in the realms beyond. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has said that when human beings “become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment…is to be subjected to the world of nature; to be veiled from God; to be brutal and ignorant; to fall into carnal lusts; to be absorbed in animal frailties; to be characterized with dark qualities…these are the greatest punishments and tortures…”1

Is that similar to other Eastern religions? It also sounds pretty meaningless, doesn't it?
 
Plan B for most everybody is having the ultra-pious Mormon who will pray you out of whatever afterlife dead-end you're stuck in & install you in Mormon heaven. They have some sorta proxy-baptism they'll do in your name. They're serious about this -- very serious -- which accounts for their genealogical pursuits. They've "rebaptized" a shit-Christload of (mostly white) dead people -- U.S. Presidents, signers of the Declaration, all kinds of people from the past. I'm not clear on what they think happens if a dead guy is floating in the ether and remembers slamming the door on Mormon missionaries. If you're dead, in other words, could you still say, 'This is bullshit. Leave me alone!' Also not clear on what level of endowment you could reach in their heaven, which is very caste-bound, if you get there as a proxy. Just remember, everyone, if you find yourself on the Hell Train in the minute after you die, start calling on the spirit of Joseph Smith. Or think of anything that reminds you of Mormonism -- I find that the image of unsalted Hungry Jack instant mashed potatoes is helpful.
 
Purgatory was a Catholic invention, I remember it from grade school. An unbaptized baby who dies gor es to purgatory or something like that.

As to eastern traditions I think it depends on who you talk to.

I take reincarnation until you reach a certain state is talking about spiritual growth, the Christian born again experience. God is a level of awareness and experince/

The Hebrew god was metaphor for the patriarchal male head of the family.

The point modern literal Christians miss is that heaven by whatever you call it is a level of experience. Feeling good doesn't cover it. Sin is what brings you down from that state. I read the same into Buddhism. There is a primordial unconditioned mind and state. Over time karmic causations lead you down to a corrupted less desirable state. The practices untagngle you from corrupting mental connections to the world and leads back to a better quality of experience.


Heaven is about quality of existence, not material, in the here and now not the hereafter. An analogy, having a real bad case of the flu feeling miserable, and finally feeling good again.
 
For a modern look at Hell and the theology that justifies it, I highly recommend a couple of books by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle-

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They describe the journey of a twentieth-century science fiction writer through the levels of Dante's Hell. Wonderful tales, both, and amazingly thought-provoking.
 
Thanks Jobar, but since I no longer enjoy reading any type of fiction, I will pass on those books.

And, Catholic babies don't go to purgatory, the go to limbo. I would guess that they could be prayed into heaven. That actually sounds like a better plan that the evangelical version of things. If you aren't "saved", you go straight to hell. You can be the most wonderful, moral, charitable person in the world, but if you don't ask Jesus into your heart and accept him as your personal savior, you go straight to hell. On the other hand, you can be a real asshole, but as long as you ask Jesus to save you, you go straight to heaven. And yes. These people are serious about that shit.
 
Thanks Jobar, but since I no longer enjoy reading any type of fiction, I will pass on those books.

And, Catholic babies don't go to purgatory, the go to limbo. I would guess that they could be prayed into heaven. That actually sounds like a better plan that the evangelical version of things. If you aren't "saved", you go straight to hell. You can be the most wonderful, moral, charitable person in the world, but if you don't ask Jesus into your heart and accept him as your personal savior, you go straight to hell. On the other hand, you can be a real asshole, but as long as you ask Jesus to save you, you go straight to heaven. And yes. These people are serious about that shit.

You
re right it is limbo.

I remember something about us kids praying could get somebody out of purgatory.
 
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