Here's What Really Happened At That Company That Set a $70,000 Minimum Wage

[Harry Bosch]

How do you mean?

Typically if you mistreat a worker too much they go to your competition. When the job pays better there's more incentive to stay and thus more tolerance of mistreatment. There's also the related issue of mistreatment in order to get such jobs. (Sleep with me if you want to be hired...)

Not all workers have the luxury or option of 'going to the opposition.'

Nor is it necessarily a matter of being mistreated. Workers may be treated well, just poorly paid....with no option of going to the opposition in the expectation of sigificantly better pay.

The problem is systemic, with apparenty limitless money for those at the top of the heap, yet hardly a pittance for the bottom end....heaven forbid a 50 cent pay rise for minimum wage earners, the whole economy is gonna crash.

Dump question, but why can't some of these workers leave and go to the competition?

 

[Toni]

Not all workers have the luxury or option of 'going to the opposition.'

Nor is it necessarily a matter of being mistreated. Workers may be treated well, just poorly paid....with no option of going to the opposition in the expectation of sigificantly better pay.

The problem is systemic, with apparenty limitless money for those at the top of the heap, yet hardly a pittance for the bottom end....heaven forbid a 50 cent pay rise for minimum wage earners, the whole economy is gonna crash.

Dump question, but why can't some of these workers leave and go to the competition?

In my town, local factory owners belong to the same (and only) country club. Somehow, they all manage to pay their workers similar shitty wages with shitty work conditions and shitty benefits.

Trust me: those business owners are not such original thinkers.

 

[Jarhyn]

Not all workers have the luxury or option of 'going to the opposition.'

Nor is it necessarily a matter of being mistreated. Workers may be treated well, just poorly paid....with no option of going to the opposition in the expectation of sigificantly better pay.

The problem is systemic, with apparenty limitless money for those at the top of the heap, yet hardly a pittance for the bottom end....heaven forbid a 50 cent pay rise for minimum wage earners, the whole economy is gonna crash.

Dump question, but why can't some of these workers leave and go to the competition?

In my town, local factory owners belong to the same (and only) country club. Somehow, they all manage to pay their workers similar shitty wages with shitty work conditions and shitty benefits.

Trust me: those business owners are not such original thinkers.

Sounds like it's time to bust out the laser microphone and point it at a certain shitty country club's windows.

 

[DBT]

Not all workers have the luxury or option of 'going to the opposition.'

Nor is it necessarily a matter of being mistreated. Workers may be treated well, just poorly paid....with no option of going to the opposition in the expectation of sigificantly better pay.

The problem is systemic, with apparenty limitless money for those at the top of the heap, yet hardly a pittance for the bottom end....heaven forbid a 50 cent pay rise for minimum wage earners, the whole economy is gonna crash.

Dump question, but why can't some of these workers leave and go to the competition?

The competition is fully aware of what is being paid in the industry. They know what the going rate is. A company may offer more if they are having trouble getting staff, but that also has its limits.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Not all workers have the luxury or option of 'going to the opposition.'

Nor is it necessarily a matter of being mistreated. Workers may be treated well, just poorly paid....with no option of going to the opposition in the expectation of sigificantly better pay.

The problem is systemic, with apparenty limitless money for those at the top of the heap, yet hardly a pittance for the bottom end....heaven forbid a 50 cent pay rise for minimum wage earners, the whole economy is gonna crash.

Dump question, but why can't some of these workers leave and go to the competition?

The competition is fully aware of what is being paid in the industry. They know what the going rate is. A company may offer more if they are having trouble getting staff, but that also has its limits.

Of course. I'm an employer. I'm the majority owner of a machine shop. My goal is to have the best workforce (among many other goals). One of my greatest difficulties has been getting good engineers and keeping them. Anyway, we use a HR group to access market wages for various positions. Then we recruit. We try to pay 10 to 20% more. We pay more than that for certain positions. We offer better benefits. We offer a good 401 k. We have a strong incentive based bonus program. The better the company does, the better the bonus. BTW: even with PPP, we'll be operating at a loss this year. But we'll be fine. Is this fair?

 

[DBT]

The competition is fully aware of what is being paid in the industry. They know what the going rate is. A company may offer more if they are having trouble getting staff, but that also has its limits.

Of course. I'm an employer. I'm the majority owner of a machine shop. My goal is to have the best workforce (among many other goals). One of my greatest difficulties has been getting good engineers and keeping them. Anyway, we use a HR group to access market wages for various positions. Then we recruit. We try to pay 10 to 20% more. We pay more than that for certain positions. We offer better benefits. We offer a good 401 k. We have a strong incentive based bonus program. The better the company does, the better the bonus. BTW: even with PPP, we'll be operating at a loss this year. But we'll be fine. Is this fair?

What percentage of companies across a range industries do the same? There are always exceptions. Bob Jones smoked all his life and lived to a hundred.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The competition is fully aware of what is being paid in the industry. They know what the going rate is. A company may offer more if they are having trouble getting staff, but that also has its limits.

Of course. I'm an employer. I'm the majority owner of a machine shop. My goal is to have the best workforce (among many other goals). One of my greatest difficulties has been getting good engineers and keeping them. Anyway, we use a HR group to access market wages for various positions. Then we recruit. We try to pay 10 to 20% more. We pay more than that for certain positions. We offer better benefits. We offer a good 401 k. We have a strong incentive based bonus program. The better the company does, the better the bonus. BTW: even with PPP, we'll be operating at a loss this year. But we'll be fine. Is this fair?

What percentage of companies across a range industries do the same? There are always exceptions. Bob Jones smoked all his life and lived to a hundred.

I have no idea. But here's the deal, it's very expensive to train new people. Depending on the position, it might take a couple months to before an employee starts generating a return. It takes roughly 25% of an employee's salary to replace that position.

 

[DBT]

What percentage of companies across a range industries do the same? There are always exceptions. Bob Jones smoked all his life and lived to a hundred.

I have no idea. But here's the deal, it's very expensive to train new people. Depending on the position, it might take a couple months to before an employee starts generating a return. It takes roughly 25% of an employee's salary to replace that position.

That may be true, but it's just a part of running a company. There should be a ratio of trained, productive employees and a percentage of trainees. If you only had new people, on the job training, not up to speed, you would be in trouble. Surely a matter of efficient management.

 

[Jarhyn]

What percentage of companies across a range industries do the same? There are always exceptions. Bob Jones smoked all his life and lived to a hundred.

I have no idea. But here's the deal, it's very expensive to train new people. Depending on the position, it might take a couple months to before an employee starts generating a return. It takes roughly 25% of an employee's salary to replace that position.

That may be true, but it's just a part of running a company. There should be a ratio of trained, productive employees and a percentage of trainees. If you only had new people, on the job training, not up to speed, you would be in trouble. Surely a matter of efficient management.

I think it might also be useful to ask what is the standard deviation in wages and salaries in the field. If +10-20% iwithin a single standard deviation from the mean (if say, 25% of shops are offering that), then it isn't actually an incentive to get them to stay: fully a quarter of shops are going to be paying as good or better.

Maybe if he wants to be seen as exceptional, he has to actually be statistically exceptional.

 

[Harry Bosch]

That may be true, but it's just a part of running a company. There should be a ratio of trained, productive employees and a percentage of trainees. If you only had new people, on the job training, not up to speed, you would be in trouble. Surely a matter of efficient management.

I think it might also be useful to ask what is the standard deviation in wages and salaries in the field. If +10-20% iwithin a single standard deviation from the mean (if say, 25% of shops are offering that), then it isn't actually an incentive to get them to stay: fully a quarter of shops are going to be paying as good or better.

Maybe if he wants to be seen as exceptional, he has to actually be statistically exceptional.

Yea, that's a great idea. Publish the information that I paid for. Help my competition understand better how they can be more efficient. I love helping my competitors!! (not really)

 

[Jarhyn]

That may be true, but it's just a part of running a company. There should be a ratio of trained, productive employees and a percentage of trainees. If you only had new people, on the job training, not up to speed, you would be in trouble. Surely a matter of efficient management.

I think it might also be useful to ask what is the standard deviation in wages and salaries in the field. If +10-20% iwithin a single standard deviation from the mean (if say, 25% of shops are offering that), then it isn't actually an incentive to get them to stay: fully a quarter of shops are going to be paying as good or better.

Maybe if he wants to be seen as exceptional, he has to actually be statistically exceptional.

Yea, that's a great idea. Publish the information that I paid for. Help my competition understand better how they can be more efficient. I love helping my competitors!! (not really)

"I don't want to discuss whether my 'generosity' is meaningfully generous enough to accomplish what I am trying to accomplish!"

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not all workers have the luxury or option of 'going to the opposition.'

Nor is it necessarily a matter of being mistreated. Workers may be treated well, just poorly paid....with no option of going to the opposition in the expectation of sigificantly better pay.

The problem is systemic, with apparenty limitless money for those at the top of the heap, yet hardly a pittance for the bottom end....heaven forbid a 50 cent pay rise for minimum wage earners, the whole economy is gonna crash.

Dump question, but why can't some of these workers leave and go to the competition?

In my town, local factory owners belong to the same (and only) country club. Somehow, they all manage to pay their workers similar shitty wages with shitty work conditions and shitty benefits.

Trust me: those business owners are not such original thinkers.

No need for collusion, it's just that's all they need to pay to get enough workers.

 

[DBT]

That may be true, but it's just a part of running a company. There should be a ratio of trained, productive employees and a percentage of trainees. If you only had new people, on the job training, not up to speed, you would be in trouble. Surely a matter of efficient management.

I think it might also be useful to ask what is the standard deviation in wages and salaries in the field. If +10-20% iwithin a single standard deviation from the mean (if say, 25% of shops are offering that), then it isn't actually an incentive to get them to stay: fully a quarter of shops are going to be paying as good or better.

Maybe if he wants to be seen as exceptional, he has to actually be statistically exceptional.

It also depends on the number of applicants for the job. If there is a lpool of applicants to draw from, that tends drive down the wages or salaries being offered. No need to offer more than is needed to get staff. Some industries only need to offer minimum wage, yet generate large profits.

 

[DBT]

That may be true, but it's just a part of running a company. There should be a ratio of trained, productive employees and a percentage of trainees. If you only had new people, on the job training, not up to speed, you would be in trouble. Surely a matter of efficient management.

I think it might also be useful to ask what is the standard deviation in wages and salaries in the field. If +10-20% iwithin a single standard deviation from the mean (if say, 25% of shops are offering that), then it isn't actually an incentive to get them to stay: fully a quarter of shops are going to be paying as good or better.

Maybe if he wants to be seen as exceptional, he has to actually be statistically exceptional.

Yea, that's a great idea. Publish the information that I paid for. Help my competition understand better how they can be more efficient. I love helping my competitors!! (not really)

Wage rates in any given industry in any given town or city is usually not a secret. People talk. Sometimes pay scales are advertised in order to attract applicants.

 

[skepticalbip]

In my town, local factory owners belong to the same (and only) country club. Somehow, they all manage to pay their workers similar shitty wages with shitty work conditions and shitty benefits.

Trust me: those business owners are not such original thinkers.

No need for collusion, it's just that's all they need to pay to get enough workers.

Yes, it is odd to me that there are so many that don't understand nature. Animals, which include humans and even business owners, are shaped by evolution to try to get the most they can for the least effort (cost). Lions take down the weakest or slowest in the herd, shoppers look for the lowest cost for an item they want, someone looking to have their auto repaired will pick the garage that gives the lowest estimate (even though they will claim that they think mechanics should be paid more).

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yea, that's a great idea. Publish the information that I paid for. Help my competition understand better how they can be more efficient. I love helping my competitors!! (not really)

Wage rates in any given industry in any given town or city is usually not a secret. People talk. Sometimes pay scales are advertised in order to attract applicants.

It's not as easy as you think. HR and Headhunters firms are paid well to determine market rates and then find good employees. And good employees don't want to leave their existing job for a startup or early company unless they are paid more with better benefits.

 

[Jarhyn]

Yea, that's a great idea. Publish the information that I paid for. Help my competition understand better how they can be more efficient. I love helping my competitors!! (not really)

Wage rates in any given industry in any given town or city is usually not a secret. People talk. Sometimes pay scales are advertised in order to attract applicants.

It's not as easy as you think. HR and Headhunters firms are paid well to determine market rates and then find good employees. And good employees don't want to leave their existing job for a startup or early company unless they are paid more with better benefits.

Because this forum is really popular with headhunters looking to snipe steelworkers from an unknown welding shop somewhere in Washington.

/s

 

[J842P]

In my town, local factory owners belong to the same (and only) country club. Somehow, they all manage to pay their workers similar shitty wages with shitty work conditions and shitty benefits.

Trust me: those business owners are not such original thinkers.

No need for collusion, it's just that's all they need to pay to get enough workers.

Yes, it is odd to me that there are so many that don't understand nature. Animals, which include humans and even business owners, are shaped by evolution to try to get the most they can for the least effort (cost). Lions take down the weakest or slowest in the herd, shoppers look for the lowest cost for an item they want, someone looking to have their auto repaired will pick the garage that gives the lowest estimate (even though they will claim that they think mechanics should be paid more).

Who's saying they don't understand why people will try pay the lowest they can get away with?

 

[DBT]

Yea, that's a great idea. Publish the information that I paid for. Help my competition understand better how they can be more efficient. I love helping my competitors!! (not really)

Wage rates in any given industry in any given town or city is usually not a secret. People talk. Sometimes pay scales are advertised in order to attract applicants.

It's not as easy as you think. HR and Headhunters firms are paid well to determine market rates and then find good employees. And good employees don't want to leave their existing job for a startup or early company unless they are paid more with better benefits.

I worked in heavy engineering for most of my career, ship building, structural steel, mine and mill work, etc (now retired), I co-managed a small engineering workshop for some years. We knew precisely what the pay rates were on offer around town. We knew who paid what. People talk, employees change jobs because contracts run out in one place, so they go where the work is. There was no secrecy.

 

[skepticalbip]

Yes, it is odd to me that there are so many that don't understand nature. Animals, which include humans and even business owners, are shaped by evolution to try to get the most they can for the least effort (cost). Lions take down the weakest or slowest in the herd, shoppers look for the lowest cost for an item they want, someone looking to have their auto repaired will pick the garage that gives the lowest estimate (even though they will claim that they think mechanics should be paid more).

Who's saying they don't understand why people will try pay the lowest they can get away with?

They apparently understand that they themselves watch how they spend their wealth but if the managers of a business do too then it only proves to them how greedy, uncaring, and evil managers are.