Hillary Clinton - Economicus Ignorissimus

[boneyard bill]

I have to say that it is one of the most ignorant claims I have ever heard from a politician, and politicians can be horribly ignorant. But Hillary Clinton is now claiming that businesses do not create jobs.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-25/hillary-business-does-not-create-jobs-washington-does

Hillary believes in government at the expense of the people. I do not say this lightly, because here she goes again. She just appeared at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday. She was off the hook and amazingly told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”

What is far more obvious is that government cannot create jobs. Government does not produce anything. Without production, there is nothing with which to pay workers. The power of the government is the power to commandeer resources. A modern government usually does that through taxation. But the power to commandeer existing resources and the ability to use resources to produce things are not at all the same. Of course, government can attempt to produce things as happened in Soviet Russia and Maoist China. How'd that work out for them? Not well at all.

Hillary's contempt for the private sector and totally unwarranted confidence in government is virtual infantile in it's naivety. Please Hillary, please don't run. The country is in bad enough shape as it is.

 

[RavenSky]

What did Bain Capital produce? What does Wall Street produce?

Conversely, government sure as heck produces actual jobs. School teachers, fire fighters, police, military - those are all examples of government produced jobs. Government can also produce private sector jobs via infrastructure work (if the effin-Republicans would get off their obstructionist asses and allow it).

In any case, despite what Brietbart and all the conversative and/or whackadoodle sites are trumpeting, Hillary Clinton never said government creates jobs. Her comment was directly against Reaganomics and "trickle down" economicus ignorissimus, and generally a comment about the inter-dependence of business/corporations and government.

 

[Jayjay]

I'm still convinced that she won't run.

 

[boneyard bill]

What did Bain Capital produce? What does Wall Street produce?

Conversely, government sure as heck produces actual jobs. School teachers, fire fighters, police, military - those are all examples of government produced jobs. Government can also produce private sector jobs via infrastructure work (if the effin-Republicans would get off their obstructionist asses and allow it).

In any case, despite what Brietbart and all the conversative and/or whackadoodle sites are trumpeting, Hillary Clinton never said government creates jobs. Her comment was directly against Reaganomics and "trickle down" economicus ignorissimus, and generally a comment about the inter-dependence of business/corporations and government.

You are making an argument that I have already refuted. Government doesn't create jobs. It transfers wealth created elsewhere to other people to provide services that the government demands. It commandeers resources but it does not create wealth. It taxes wealth to provide services it deems more important than the services that the private sector might demand. This may be good or it may be bad, that is a subjective opinion. But the government doesn't add to the work-force by taking money from one person and giving it to another. The government is dependent on the private sector for the funds it uses to hire people in the public sector.

 

[laughing dog]

If anyone actually said what is quoted, then they are an economic ignoramus. Given the obvious partisan slant of the blog, I wonder if the quote is accurate. I found the link rather ironic, since the writer seems to be an economic ignoramus. I particularly liked the "Yet she sees no problem with the math of perpetually borrowing " dumbness. It is quite possible that the "math" of perpetual borrowing makes sense to borrow perpetually - when the borrowed funds earn a return that exceeds the cost of obtaining the funds. It is almost as economically ignorant as the notion that gov't cannot create wealth or jobs. Capital projects that will not be undertaken by the private sector for various reasons can create wealth and jobs: lighthouses and the interstate highway system are but 2 examples of gov't created wealth and jobs.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If anyone actually said what is quoted, then they are an economic ignoramus. Given the obvious partisan slant of the blog, I wonder if the quote is accurate. I found the link rather ironic, since the writer seems to be an economic ignoramus. I particularly liked the "Yet she sees no problem with the math of perpetually borrowing " dumbness. It is quite possible that the "math" of perpetual borrowing makes sense to borrow perpetually - when the borrowed funds earn a return that exceeds the cost of obtaining the funds. It is almost as economically ignorant as the notion that gov't cannot create wealth or jobs. Capital projects that will not be undertaken by the private sector for various reasons can create wealth and jobs: lighthouses and the interstate highway system are but 2 examples of gov't created wealth and jobs.

Indeed! How many companies don't have any debt?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I have to say that it is one of the most ignorant claims I have ever heard from a politician, and politicians can be horribly ignorant. But Hillary Clinton is now claiming that businesses do not create jobs.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-25/hillary-business-does-not-create-jobs-washington-does

Hillary believes in government at the expense of the people. I do not say this lightly, because here she goes again. She just appeared at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday. She was off the hook and amazingly told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”

What is far more obvious is that government cannot create jobs.

Yes, because road maintenance is done by elves powered by children's dreams of sweet capitalism.

Government does not produce anything.

That's correct, they don't produce order, and an educated populous, nor drinking water, or civil resolution of disputes.. you know stuff that ain't stuff.

Without production, there is nothing with which to pay workers.

Yes, the 18 million revenue (after expenses) our department brings in for the services we do not produce does not allow us to pay our workers.

The power of the government is the power to commandeer resources. A modern government usually does that through taxation. But the power to commandeer existing resources and the ability to use resources to produce things are not at all the same. Of course, government can attempt to produce things as happened in Soviet Russia and Maoist China. How'd that work out for them? Not well at all.

Yes, we pray to our posters of Stalin every morning.

Hillary's contempt for the private sector and totally unwarranted confidence in government is virtual infantile in it's naivety. Please Hillary, please don't run. The country is in bad enough shape as it is.

Brilliant, well thought out, rational arguments are always wanted, but never disappoint.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That's correct, they don't produce order, and an educated populous, nor drinking water, or civil resolution of disputes.. you know stuff that ain't stuff.

Ferguson, MO.
LAUSD 50% dropout rate.
California drought.
Holding big finance accountable for the '08 bust.

You're right, the government doesn't deliver on it's promises in those areas.

 

[lpetrich]

I have to say that it is one of the most ignorant claims I have ever heard from a politician, and politicians can be horribly ignorant. But Hillary Clinton is now claiming that businesses do not create jobs.

If she really claimed that, she made a dumb blunder. What happens next will then be an important test of her character. Will she say "I goofed"? Or will she make excuses and whine about how misunderstood and picked-on she is?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-25/hillary-business-does-not-create-jobs-washington-does

Hillary believes in government at the expense of the people.

Right-wing anarchists -- I love it. These are the guys who gloat over government jackboots on anyone they dislike.

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”

She may be saying that they haven't been doing what they've advertised themselves as doing.

What is far more obvious is that government cannot create jobs.

boneyard bill, do you realize how stupid that makes you look? As bad as what you'd claimed about Hillary Clinton. Seriously. When you make that statement, you seem like someone who has gone to the Moon's distance from the Earth while saying "See? The Earth is as flat as a dinner plate."

Government does not produce anything.

That's like being in outer space for several days, watching the Earth turn and get shaded like a ball, while saying "It's as flat as a dinner plate".

Without production, there is nothing with which to pay workers.

All that's necessary is to have income. There are lots of ways to get income without working to build or make something. Let's see...

• Selling what one owns
• Renting out what one owns
• Dividends, interest, and the like
• Scams
• Extortion

 

[lpetrich]

Ferguson, MO.

Tell that to all the right-wingers here and elsewhere who claim that that's government doing what it's supposed to, and that if anything, it isn't doing enough.

LAUSD 50% dropout rate.

???

California drought.

As if it is the fault of your favorite villain.

Holding big finance accountable for the '08 bust.

You're complaining about too little government here?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

That's correct, they don't produce order, and an educated populous, nor drinking water, or civil resolution of disputes.. you know stuff that ain't stuff.

Ferguson, MO.
LAUSD 50% dropout rate.
California drought.
Holding big finance accountable for the '08 bust.

You're right, the government doesn't deliver on it's promises in those areas.

Exactly, if one part breaks... you gotta throw the entire batch out the window. only free market capitalism works every time

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

You're 4 for 4 and saying "if one part breaks".

 

[RavenSky]

What did Bain Capital produce? What does Wall Street produce?

Conversely, government sure as heck produces actual jobs. School teachers, fire fighters, police, military - those are all examples of government produced jobs. Government can also produce private sector jobs via infrastructure work (if the effin-Republicans would get off their obstructionist asses and allow it).

In any case, despite what Brietbart and all the conversative and/or whackadoodle sites are trumpeting, Hillary Clinton never said government creates jobs. Her comment was directly against Reaganomics and "trickle down" economicus ignorissimus, and generally a comment about the inter-dependence of business/corporations and government.

You are making an argument that I have already refuted.

You've argued against it, but you have not successfully refuted it. Sorry.

 

[RavenSky]

If anyone actually said what is quoted

The problem is that the right-wing sites (Breitbart, Drudge, et al) are wetting their pants over a severely clipped video of Hillary Clinton saying only the two sentences without any context. Clinton was at an event promoting Elizabeth Warren, and was reported elsewhere as trying to sound as populist/left leaning as Warren. It sounds like she was speaking along the same lines as Warren's "you didn't build that" statement (which was also taken far out of context by the right-wing). Clinton was quoted by Politico that she was partly referring to the tax breaks and other government perks that businesses receive in order to grow. As Elizabeth Warren rightly pointed out when she made the "You didn't build that" comment, businesses rely heavily on government for the infrastructure businesses need to even exist - roads, ports, education, police, fire, etc.

Moreover, my own point, corporations would not even exist at all (thus enjoying all of the perks/privileges they do) without government because it is only by way of a legal fiction recognized and enforced by government that allows a corporation as an entity to exist.

Bottom line, Hillary was doing her Elizabeth Warren imitation, and as with Warren and Obama before her, the right-wing has taken a single sentence out of context and is running with it.

Frankly, googling the sentence and looking at the specific media outlets running the *story* says everything I needed to know right now.

 

[TV and credit cards]

...provide services it deems more important than the services that the private sector might demand. This may be good or it may be bad, that is a subjective opinion.

Is air traffic control objective? I'll check back after work.

 

[dismal]

In economics, jobs are a cost.

What we want to create is goods and services.

As far as Hillary goes if you listen to that speech it's worse. She seems a bit addled and confused as she delivers it. And also a bit shrill. Very unappealing from a political standpoint. I can't imagine anyone liking her better after that.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You're 4 for 4 and saying "if one part breaks".

That's right. If anything in a system performs to expectations in a sub-optimal manner, it is time to throw out the whole system.

- - - Updated - - -

In economics, jobs are a cost.

What we want to create is goods and services.

As far as Hillary goes if you listen to that speech it's worse. She seems a bit addled and confused as she delivers it. And also a bit shrill. Very unappealing from a political standpoint. I can't imagine anyone liking her better after that.

You are so right. We should liquidate all freeloaders.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's correct, they don't produce order, and an educated populous, nor drinking water, or civil resolution of disputes.. you know stuff that ain't stuff.

Ferguson, MO.

I'm not certain what you complaint is here.

LAUSD 50% dropout rate.

Interesting. While always notable room for improvement, proving a failing nation public school system by noting one district's drop out rate, would be like proving global warming by citing a single abnormal high temperature in Sioux Falls one day.

California drought.

Odd, seeing that people in California still have access to water, which implies that the restrictions put in place have worked, not failed. Unless you are actually blaming government for weather patterns that created the drought.

Holding big finance accountable for the '08 bust.

I thought deregulation was a good thing. That is why the deregulated derivatives trading. We can trust them to police themselves.

 

[jonatha]

She might not know economics.

But maybe she knows Latin.....

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I thought deregulation was a good thing. That is why the deregulated derivatives trading. We can trust them to police themselves.

So many people think that was deregulation. How cute.