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How are the Republicans going to frame the debate in 2016?

What immediately comes to mind is his re-appointment of Ben Bernanke and subsequent appointment of Janet Yellen as Chairs of the Federal Reserve Board since their policies have probably done the most to increase income inequality during his tenure.

Okay. Leaving aside for a moment the fact that Bernanke is a student of his libertarian predecessor and Yellen is an apple that hasn't fallen far from that tree, can you point to which fed policies have led to greater income inequality? More to the point, can you explain how this was done deliberately to increase inequality?


I'll wait.


But even before he took office...


Wow. You're seriously suggesting that Obama's views before he took office have exacerbated income inequality?

QE 3, which was begun under Bernanke and continued under Yellen shoveled one trillion dollars a year to the Wall Street banks. It lasted for about a year and half, but QE 1 and QE 2 was similar to it. About half of that went to purchase US Treasuries (from the banks, not from the Treasury Department). The other half went to purchase mortgages. These mortgages are toxic assets. Meaning many of them are in default and not worth their face value. But the Fed purchased them from the banks at their book value. So this is a big subsidy directly to Wall Street Banks.

Meanwhile, the Fed has kept interest absurdly low. Short term rates are close to zero and the 10 year Treasury bond, which averages 6.8% in normal times has been about 2.5% due to Fed purchases of these bonds. They say the policy is intended to stimulate the economy, but it hasn't stimulated. There's too much private debt out there already for it to do that. Instead, corporations have borrowed money at the low rates to buy back their own shares. This has allowed the stock market to reach record heights, but it hasn't done anything to stimulate the economy.

I do not claim that these policies are deliberately intended to fatten up the rich (although I think they are). I have no evidence to prove motivation.

Obama was a candidate when TARP was passed so he knew that he would have to live with it if he got elected. It failed in the House. Obama went to Washington and personally lobbied fellow Democrats who had voted for the bill. It passed the second time around.

Bernanke is considered to be a Monetarist while Yellen is considered to be a Keynesian. Greenspan wasn't considered either one. But academic background doesn't really correlate with how a Chairman behaves once in office.
 
I do not claim that these policies are deliberately intended to fatten up the rich (although I think they are).

So you think they are intended to "fatten up the rich," but you don't claim they are.


Excuse me?
 
Ford writes:

I do not claim that these policies are deliberately intended to fatten up the rich (although I think they are).

So you think they are intended to "fatten up the rich," but you don't claim they are.

Excuse me?

What is too complicated for you here? I stated clearly that I have no evidence to prove motivation. What I suspect or even believe is not evidence. Therefore I cannot make a factual claim about it. I believe that Obama re-appointed Bernanke as a result of pressure from the Wall Street banks, but I can't prove it. I believe the choice of Yellen came about more or less the same way, but I can't prove it.
 
boneyard bill said:
Old standbys? What planet are you living on? Democrats like you are living in denial. The primary issues that Republicans have raised are significant issues. Frankly, I usually disagree with their positions, but nonetheless balancing budget, dealing with entitlements for the long term, national security, and social issues are all quite relevant. Republicans capture the majority of married women. There goes the misogyny issue. When do Democrats ever dare to run on a platform of socialism? They don't even claim to be liberals these days. Democrats raise the race issue far more often than Republicans. Even making absurd claims like "cutting taxes is racism." Opposition to gay marriage is not anti-gay. It is a legitimate issue that deserves to be discussed, but the gay vote is miniscule anyway so it isn't going to affect elections very much.

What planet am I living on? Balancing the Budget? What planet are you living on? Was the budget balanced when Bush was president? No. Other Bush? Reagan? No and No. The Republicans are only interested in a balanced budget when a democrat is in charge. What dishonest nonsense!
 
boneyard bill said:
Old standbys? What planet are you living on? Democrats like you are living in denial. The primary issues that Republicans have raised are significant issues. Frankly, I usually disagree with their positions, but nonetheless balancing budget, dealing with entitlements for the long term, national security, and social issues are all quite relevant. Republicans capture the majority of married women. There goes the misogyny issue. When do Democrats ever dare to run on a platform of socialism? They don't even claim to be liberals these days. Democrats raise the race issue far more often than Republicans. Even making absurd claims like "cutting taxes is racism." Opposition to gay marriage is not anti-gay. It is a legitimate issue that deserves to be discussed, but the gay vote is miniscule anyway so it isn't going to affect elections very much.

What planet am I living on? Balancing the Budget? What planet are you living on? Was the budget balanced when Bush was president? No. Other Bush? Reagan? No and No. The Republicans are only interested in a balanced budget when a democrat is in charge. What dishonest nonsense!

So now you're down to arguing one issue. Republicans have a poor history when it comes to balancing the budget. That does not, in any way, degrade the significance of debating the issue now. Moreover, it isn't even one of the issues that you cited in discussing how Republicans might frame the debate for 2016. Do I expect the GOP to balance the budget if they win the Senate? No. (And Obama would veto it if they did). They might actually succeed in passing a budget which is more than the Democrat Senate achieved. And they might actually succeed in reducing some expenditures. But the issue under discussion here is how they will frame the debate for the 2016 campaign, and I think the budget will be an issue they will discuss, and it is a serious issue that needs to be discussed and a far cry from the kinds of things you have mentioned.
 
I argued that single point because it was the only one that was respectable. You want to argue the other issues? fine,

Getting us into foreign wars and spending huge amounts of money on defense doesn't improve our security. It puts money into the hands of rich corporations that support the campaigns of republican corporations. Iraq and Afganistan didn't make us more secure. This should be obvious.

Married women vote Republican? This means republicans aren't misogynistic? That's a silly conclusion to make. That's like saying republicans aren't anti-poor because poor whites vote for them. Or that democrats aren't racist because blacks vote for them.

Opposing gay marriage isn't anti-gay? Sorry, the Supreme Court ruled that laws built on animus aren't constitutional, and that is the basis of most of the bans being struck down. In several cases, all that had to be done to establish animus was to submit the documents that the legislators submitted themselves to explain their reasons for passing the bans. Just because the gay bashers have lost every single other plank on their platform doesn't mean that this last plank isn't anti-gay. Also should be obvious.

How can the republicans discuss the budget? They've tried, and utterly failed to produce anything workable. The Ryan budget is basically theft: people who have been paying for medicare for their entire lives are now seeing it called a 'hand out' and see politicians attempting to steal what they've spent their life paying for. When you promise something to someone and take their money, and don't give what you promised, you are a thief. That's just one example.

Tea Party budgeting has been tried in Kansas, and to a lesser extent Wisconsin. Kansas is a disastrous failure, and Wisconsin lags behind all of its neighbors in economic recovery. Tea party voodoo economics have been tried, and failed. Like a Communist, you close your eyes to the obvious failures, and cling to your ideology.
 
Sarpedon writes: I argued that single point because it was the only one that was respectable. You want to argue the other issues? fine,

Getting us into foreign wars and spending huge amounts of money on defense doesn't improve our security. It puts money into the hands of rich corporations that support the campaigns of republican corporations. Iraq and Afganistan didn't make us more secure. This should be obvious.

I agree with this. How is Obama's policy any different? He's bombed seven countries during his term. This is a peacetime record by a large margin. He didn't get out of Iraq when promised. He got out when we were kicked out by the Iraqis. He escalated Afghanistan and, after promising to withdraw in 2014, now says he's going to keep 10,000 troops there. However, this isn't one of the issues that you listed. Republicans will seek to exploit this issue, however. Rand Paul is currently the only Republican who might try to exploit in on the dovish side although others might see an advantage to that as time goes on. But other GOP candidates will seek to exploit it from the hawkish side. Obama doesn't follow through, etc.

Married women vote Republican? This means republicans aren't misogynistic? That's a silly conclusion to make. That's like saying republicans aren't anti-poor because poor whites vote for them. Or that democrats aren't racist because blacks vote for them.

Polls have shown that when you factor out income, race and other factors, women do not have any bias against Republicans. Who defines misogyny better than the alleged "victims" of it? All you're claiming is that Republicans don't follow the politically correct line. So what? How is that going to affect the election? Mark Udall has been running ads all campaign season about how his opponent is anti-women, and he's done nothing but decline in the polls.

Opposing gay marriage isn't anti-gay? Sorry, the Supreme Court ruled that laws built on animus aren't constitutional, and that is the basis of most of the bans being struck down. In several cases, all that had to be done to establish animus was to submit the documents that the legislators submitted themselves to explain their reasons for passing the bans. Just because the gay bashers have lost every single other plank on their platform doesn't mean that this last plank isn't anti-gay. Also should be obvious.

I'm not interested in how the Supreme Court distorts the constitution. Gay marriage was openly opposed by Bill Clinton not that long ago even while he tried to introduce gays into the military. These are separate issues. Just because someone doesn't favor every single thing that activists demand doesn't mean that they are somehow against that entire group. This isn't going to be a major issue in most elections and won't necessarily hurt Republicans where it is. And that is the point of this discussion. I'm not challenging your positions on these issue even though I mostly disagree with you. I'm challenging your claim that these issues will somehow become the central issues in the way the GOP "frames" the debate for 2016. I'm saying they won't emphasize these issues and that it won't particularly hurt them if they do.

How can the republicans discuss the budget? They've tried, and utterly failed to produce anything workable. The Ryan budget is basically theft: people who have been paying for medicare for their entire lives are now seeing it called a 'hand out' and see politicians attempting to steal what they've spent their life paying for. When you promise something to someone and take their money, and don't give what you promised, you are a thief. That's just one example.

The Ryan budget isn't theft. The theft has already occurred. Medicare, like social security, faces the demographic time bomb of the aging of the baby boomer generation. Yet little was done to reduce Medicare costs. What was done by Newt Gingrich and acquiesced to by Bill Clinton was to cap doctors payments at below market prices. What really needed to be done was to reform health care regulations, particularly insurance regulations, to reduce the underlying costs. Instead Bush pushed through his under-financed prescription drug program and Obama has raided Medicare to help pay for Obamacare. No wonder costs have to be cut. No wonder Medicare is in trouble.

In fact, the Ryan budget is way, way too little, too late. Politicians of both parties are simply going to run out the clock until a crisis is upon us and then far more drastic cuts will be needed. Democrats will probably say that we just need to let old people die. (What, then, was the point of Medicare in the first place?) When you don't have the money it is absurd to say we need to do it anyway. It's like saying that I'm being cruel to my son because I don't buy him a bicycle. What if I don't have the money? Should I buy him a bicycle and then starve him to death?

Democrats have their heads in the sand completely on budgetary issues. Republicans sometimes pull their head out and take a peek, don't like what they see, and put their heads back.

Tea Party budgeting has been tried in Kansas, and to a lesser extent Wisconsin. Kansas is a disastrous failure, and Wisconsin lags behind all of its neighbors in economic recovery. Tea party voodoo economics have been tried, and failed. Like a Communist, you close your eyes to the obvious failures, and cling to your ideology
.

I don't know what you mean by "Tea Party" budgeting. Do you mean not spending money you don't have? Most states are required to balance their budgets by their constitution. When you talk about states approaching the "fiscal cliff," Kansas and Wisconsin are not on the list. The states with the worst finances are California, Illinois, and New Jersey. They are the three states with less than AA credit ratings. They are the states that have to pay high interest rates on their debts, and Tea Party candidates regularly get trounced in elections in those states.
 
To clarify, Republicans understand income inequality, which is why they are so good at intentionally increasing it. They just don't feel that any of the problems that it causes are problems they should care about. Their rhetoric that makes it appear as though the don't understand is just a red herring to distract from the fact that they do not care. It is much like climate change and many other areas of science where they make arguments that suggest lack of understanding of cause-effect relations, but its really about a lack of caring about the negative outcomes that their policies cause.

Is there any president in our history who has income inequality increase more in his term than Obama? I don't think so. Democrats trying to run on this issue is absolutely laughable.

Then why arent GOPers running on it?
 
I think that with no clear republican favorite, they will once again have trouble arriving at any sort of coherent message, and will probably rely on their old standbys of misogyny, anti-socialism, race and gay baiting.
Old standbys? What planet are you living on? Democrats like you are living in denial. The primary issues that Republicans have raised are significant issues.
The only issue Republicans have actually raised is that "THERE IS A DEMOCRAT IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!"

All other issues just get minor fanfare.
Frankly, I usually disagree with their positions, but nonetheless balancing budget, dealing with entitlements for the long term, national security, and social issues are all quite relevant.
  • When the fuck have the Republicans shown any actual interest in balancing the budget. Seriously? How many fucking times will you fall for that? Even when Paul Ryan put out a budget balancing plan, it had about as much short-term debt as the Obama plan.
  • The Republicans already tried "entitlement" reform. It was called privatization of Social Security, which was a major fail. They created the no competition Medicare drug supplement. Their plan now is to end it and offer inadequate vouchers so we can be reminded why Medicare was created in the first place.
  • The Republicans only care about National Security as an election point. Those folks were ignoring National Security in lieu of passing tax cuts and building a missile shield when terrorists struck two targets in the US.
  • Social Issues? Are you serious? Their take on social issues is "Let's keep things the same."
Republicans capture the majority of married women. There goes the misogyny issue. When do Democrats ever dare to run on a platform of socialism? They don't even claim to be liberals these days.
Ain't it crazy... they aren't socialists... they aren't liberals... yet they are casted as left-wingers for some reason.
Democrats raise the race issue far more often than Republicans. Even making absurd claims like "cutting taxes is racism." Opposition to gay marriage is not anti-gay. It is a legitimate issue that deserves to be discussed, but the gay vote is miniscule anyway so it isn't going to affect elections very much.
Oh... we have a Libertarian who is against gay marriage? Do tell.
 
Yep. Libertarians believe in gay marriage, a woman's right to chose, and the freedom to stick whatever you want in your body. Conservatives pretending to be libertarians because they have a false belief that they are "oppressed" by government, are just fascist in disguise.
 
Is there any president in our history who has income inequality increase more in his term than Obama? I don't think so. Democrats trying to run on this issue is absolutely laughable.

Then why arent GOPers running on it?

The real question is why Democrats aren't running on it. I don't know of a single Democrat in a close race who dares to raise the issue. They know its a loser because Obama would be blamed. This is defensive White House propaganda. Even Hillary doesn't raise the issue.

Most Republicans seem to be personalizing the issue. Why are YOU worse off? That's hits home to people more than and abstract "income inequality" issue.
 
Old standbys? What planet are you living on? Democrats like you are living in denial. The primary issues that Republicans have raised are significant issues.
The only issue Republicans have actually raised is that "THERE IS A DEMOCRAT IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!"

All other issues just get minor fanfare.
Frankly, I usually disagree with their positions, but nonetheless balancing budget, dealing with entitlements for the long term, national security, and social issues are all quite relevant.
  • When the fuck have the Republicans shown any actual interest in balancing the budget. Seriously? How many fucking times will you fall for that? Even when Paul Ryan put out a budget balancing plan, it had about as much short-term debt as the Obama plan.
  • The Republicans already tried "entitlement" reform. It was called privatization of Social Security, which was a major fail. They created the no competition Medicare drug supplement. Their plan now is to end it and offer inadequate vouchers so we can be reminded why Medicare was created in the first place.
  • The Republicans only care about National Security as an election point. Those folks were ignoring National Security in lieu of passing tax cuts and building a missile shield when terrorists struck two targets in the US.
  • Social Issues? Are you serious? Their take on social issues is "Let's keep things the same."
Republicans capture the majority of married women. There goes the misogyny issue. When do Democrats ever dare to run on a platform of socialism? They don't even claim to be liberals these days.
Ain't it crazy... they aren't socialists... they aren't liberals... yet they are casted as left-wingers for some reason.
Democrats raise the race issue far more often than Republicans. Even making absurd claims like "cutting taxes is racism." Opposition to gay marriage is not anti-gay. It is a legitimate issue that deserves to be discussed, but the gay vote is miniscule anyway so it isn't going to affect elections very much.
Oh... we have a Libertarian who is against gay marriage? Do tell.

First of all, I have never described myself as a libertarian if that is what your last sentence was supposed to mean. Otherwise, I have no idea of its relevance.

Secondly, the discussion is about what issues the Republicans will raise, not about what they should or shouldn't raise.

Thirdly, Republican hypocrisy on certain issues is therefore not relevant. Politicians are hypocritical almost as a job description and Democrats are not any different.

Fourth, you ignored completely my occasional criticisms of Republican plans. I said the Ryan budget plan was too little, too late, for example. It is also mostly smoke and mirrors. It at least WAS a budget plan which claimed to balance the budget in ten years. Senate Democrats haven't passed a single budget, balanced or otherwise. But I'm not interested in getting into a position of defending Republicans on issues I don't even agree with them on. The point of the discussion was the same as the topic of this post and virtually all of your points are irrelevant to that issue.
 
Then why arent GOPers running on it?

The real question is why Democrats aren't running on it. I don't know of a single Democrat in a close race who dares to raise the issue. They know its a loser because Obama would be blamed. This is defensive White House propaganda. Even Hillary doesn't raise the issue.

Most Republicans seem to be personalizing the issue. Why are YOU worse off? That's hits home to people more than and abstract "income inequality" issue.
Funny. I seem to be less worried right now than in the fall of '08 when the Global Economy took a massive dump. I guess that is old news now.
 
The real question is why Democrats aren't running on it. I don't know of a single Democrat in a close race who dares to raise the issue. They know its a loser because Obama would be blamed. This is defensive White House propaganda. Even Hillary doesn't raise the issue.

Most Republicans seem to be personalizing the issue. Why are YOU worse off? That's hits home to people more than and abstract "income inequality" issue.
Funny. I seem to be less worried right now than in the fall of '08 when the Global Economy took a massive dump. I guess that is old news now.

You should be more worried now because the Global Economy is soon going to take another massive dump, and the reason we have not had a real recovery is because we have never fixed the problems from the last dump. When the economy goes South, people and businesses need to pay off (or liquidate) debt, save money, and rebuild their finances. Bailing out insolvent banks and then keeping them afloat with printed money while keeping interest rates ultra low to discourage savings and encourage yet more debt, is not the way to fix the problems.

It does, however, lead to more income inequality.
 
Funny. I seem to be less worried right now than in the fall of '08 when the Global Economy took a massive dump. I guess that is old news now.

You should be more worried now because the Global Economy is soon going to take another massive dump.
The entire system was nearly destroyed in 2008. I know you love your economic armageddon scenarios, but facts be told, it took a big ass amount of intervention to save the global economy in '08. It may slow down, but it almost can't get worse than '08, I mean without Ted Cruz being in charge when it happens.
...and the reason we have not had a real recovery is because we have never fixed the problems from the last dump. When the economy goes South, people and businesses need to pay off (or liquidate) debt, save money, and rebuild their finances. Bailing out insolvent banks and then keeping them afloat with printed money while keeping interest rates ultra low to discourage savings and encourage yet more debt, is not the way to fix the problems.
I know. The soln was to let all the banks disappear, put tens of trillions into limbo, and then let the free market solve all the problems.
 
Because nothing is better for political stability than complete economic collapse.
 
Then why arent GOPers running on it?

The real question is why Democrats aren't running on it. I don't know of a single Democrat in a close race who dares to raise the issue. They know its a loser because Obama would be blamed. This is defensive White House propaganda. Even Hillary doesn't raise the issue.

I suspect this is RW disinformation aimed at independents.

Elizabeth Warren, the poster child for income inequality, has stumped for Braley in Iowa, and raising the minimum wage is on his web site.

I'm not going to bother checking the other critical races, but I'd be very surprised if they're substantially different.

Most Republicans seem to be personalizing the issue. Why are YOU worse off? That's hits home to people more than and abstract "income inequality" issue.

That's just Reagan's old line from 1980. Same old.
 
I think that with no clear republican favorite, they will once again have trouble arriving at any sort of coherent message, and will probably rely on their old standbys of misogyny, anti-socialism, race and gay baiting.

Old standbys? What planet are you living on? Democrats like you are living in denial. The primary issues that Republicans have raised are significant issues. Frankly, I usually disagree with their positions, but nonetheless balancing budget, dealing with entitlements for the long term, national security, and social issues are all quite relevant. Republicans capture the majority of married women. There goes the misogyny issue. When do Democrats ever dare to run on a platform of socialism? They don't even claim to be liberals these days. Democrats raise the race issue far more often than Republicans. Even making absurd claims like "cutting taxes is racism." Opposition to gay marriage is not anti-gay. It is a legitimate issue that deserves to be discussed, but the gay vote is miniscule anyway so it isn't going to affect elections very much.
Opposition to gay marriage certainly is anti-gay. And that is how it will be perceived by the overwhelming majority of people who aren't over the age of 40. "Gay issues" are no longer limited to people who are homosexual.
 
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