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How not to get shot by the police

 
 
 
Are we to take this as data?

My personal experience with cops is their own baggage, or lack thereof, determines how adversarial the encounter is - as my behaviour is always consistent.

If this guy wasn't as lucky he might have had two cops draw their guns, give inconsistent orders or notice a 'furtive' movement and we'd have the internet combing for any minor reason to justify the shooting.

The key factor is that cops are human for better or worse.
 
Sounds like all the commotion about cops shooting black people might be starting to have some effect.
 
The closest thing to news here is he only got a warning instead of a ticket.
 
Will Wiley said:
Sounds like all the commotion about cops shooting black people might be starting to have some effect.
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Shootings have always been a very small fraction of all police encounters regardless of race. Loren's point is that getting shot depends on your behavior (like Michael Brown attacking the cop), not race. This guy was treated courteously because he was courteous himself.
 
Derec said:
Will Wiley said:
Sounds like all the commotion about cops shooting black people might be starting to have some effect.
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Shootings have always been a very small fraction of all police encounters regardless of race.
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Wow...that's good to know.
Loren's point is that getting shot depends on your behavior
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That's bullshit. You have google, you know that's not true.
It may be true in that case. I suspect if the guy wasn't polite it would have ended very badly with many police.
 
Derec said:
Will Wiley said:
Sounds like all the commotion about cops shooting black people might be starting to have some effect.
Click to expand...
Shootings have always been a very small fraction of all police encounters regardless of race. Loren's point is that getting shot depends on your behavior (like Michael Brown attacking the cop), not race. This guy was treated courteously because he was courteous himself.
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They make up a small fraction of police encounters, yet in other countries they make up a vanishingly smaller fraction of police encounters.

Fun fact: More civilians were shot and killed by police in the first 25 days of 2015 than were shot and killed by police in England and Wales in the 25 year period 1990-2014.

Can you really dismiss the amount of people getting shot and killed by police in the USA (you might break the magic figure of 1,000 this year!) as just being because people act in ways around cops that getting shot and killed is a likely and reasonable outcome? It seems that US cops are simply far more likely to resort to deadly force than their counterparts in other countries so it's at very least simplistic to lay the blame on the people getting shot.
 
Derec said:
Will Wiley said:
Sounds like all the commotion about cops shooting black people might be starting to have some effect.
Click to expand...
Shootings have always been a very small fraction of all police encounters regardless of race. Loren's point is that getting shot depends on your behavior (like Michael Brown attacking the cop), not race. This guy was treated courteously because he was courteous himself.
Click to expand...

Exactly. He's young, black and armed--yet things went smoothly because he understood how one should handle an armed encounter with the police.
 
I made mention of this before when a FB friend of mine posted this. Let's assume for a minute that this guy HADN'T handled it correctly. Let's say he was verbally confrontational. Does he then deserve to be killed?

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Samhain said:
I made mention of this before when a FB friend of mine posted this. Let's assume for a minute that this guy HADN'T handled it correctly. Let's say he was verbally confrontational. Does he then deserve to be killed?

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That is not cooperating and deserves a misdemeanor. Which means the officer can drag him out of the car. If the victim's gun falls out of his back pocket when that happens then the officer can fear for his life. Some people in the forum think that an officer's fear for his life is justification for shooting the victim.

I think if I were reading what I wrote above, I might think it is a bit cartoonish and unreal, but if you look at real incidents of police stops, escalations and fear, they are also unreal.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Samhain said:
I made mention of this before when a FB friend of mine posted this. Let's assume for a minute that this guy HADN'T handled it correctly. Let's say he was verbally confrontational. Does he then deserve to be killed?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That is not cooperating and deserves a misdemeanor. Which means the officer can drag him out of the car. If the victim's gun falls out of his back pocket when that happens then the officer can fear for his life. Some people in the forum think that an officer's fear for his life is justification for shooting the victim.

I think if I were reading what I wrote above, I might think it is a bit cartoonish and unreal, but if you look at real incidents of police stops, escalations and fear, they are also unreal.
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Of course, the guy being armed clouds the issue. I think the problem most people have with police shootings is that they happen when the victim is unarmed.

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Archimedes said:
Fun fact: More civilians were shot and killed by police in the first 25 days of 2015 than were shot and killed by police in England and Wales in the 25 year period 1990-2014.
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Are you aware that regular police in UK are not armed? And that they can afford not to be because they have strict gun laws over there? So blame the 2nd amendment.

Can you really dismiss the amount of people getting shot and killed by police in the USA (you might break the magic figure of 1,000 this year!) as just being because people act in ways around cops that getting shot and killed is a likely and reasonable outcome? It seems that US cops are simply far more likely to resort to deadly force than their counterparts in other countries so it's at very least simplistic to lay the blame on the people getting shot.
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If you attack a police officer in the US expect to be shot because police in US are all armed, unlike in the UK. Even if the perp is not armed, attacking police (like St. Michael of Ferguson) means that they can arm themselves with the officer's gun which means deadly force is reasonable.
 
Samhain said:
Of course, the guy being armed clouds the issue. I think the problem most people have with police shootings is that they happen when the victim is unarmed.
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Attacking the cop means the perp can arm himself with the officer's gun. Unarmed !=harmless.
 
Derec said:
Samhain said:
Of course, the guy being armed clouds the issue. I think the problem most people have with police shootings is that they happen when the victim is unarmed.
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Attacking the cop means the perp can arm himself with the officer's gun. Unarmed !=harmless.
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And if you're running away from the cop with your back facing him?

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Samhain said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
That is not cooperating and deserves a misdemeanor. Which means the officer can drag him out of the car. If the victim's gun falls out of his back pocket when that happens then the officer can fear for his life. Some people in the forum think that an officer's fear for his life is justification for shooting the victim.

I think if I were reading what I wrote above, I might think it is a bit cartoonish and unreal, but if you look at real incidents of police stops, escalations and fear, they are also unreal.
Click to expand...
Of course, the guy being armed clouds the issue. I think the problem most people have with police shootings is that they happen when the victim is unarmed.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Why should being armed cloud the issue? The 2nd amendment is still the law of the land I keep getting told. You'd think the pro-2nd people would be all up in arms over agents of the State (the police) thinning out the gun bearing population like this.

Maybe anti-anxiety meds should be part of every police officer's kit.
 
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