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How One Woman Could Hit The Reset Button In The Case Against Darren Wilson

Your response ignores his history on police shootings and relies on the logical fallacy of the excluded middle.

I am not ignoring his history on police shootings.
Yes you are.
I am merely not making the same baseless unreasoned assumption that you are that the cops he failed to indict deserved to be indicted.
Again, you ignore the point - it is the appearance that counts.
Given that very few of the people that cops shoot are unarmed people without any evidence of current or past criminal behavior, the odds are very low that any of the past cases before him involved an unarmed person clearly innocent of criminal wrongdoing.
I fail to see the relevance of this whatsoever. It is almost as if you are condoning the execution of unarmed people because of any possible past criminal wrongdoing.
Thus, if he were unbiased, we would still not expect him to have indicted cops in the past.
That does not follow from your claims.
In addition, as I explained many times now, the kind of specific evidence required to justify charges and a trial is far less common with a cop shooter because of the nature of what they are required to do.
Your explanation is unconvincing.
Thus, even if some of those past cops before McCullough were guilty of an unwarranted shooting, the odds are low that McCullough would have had that kind of evidence he knew was needed to even make a trial more than a reckless waste of time.
That is utter nonsense and irrelevant to the issue of the appearance of impartiality.

Brown and his father's killer have nothing in common except being black. Thus, unless he is a racist bigot who views all blacks as though they are the same, he would not be particular impacted by that fact.
Nonsense. It simply means it brings back memories that make it difficult for him to objectively deal with the situation.

Assuming he would be unduely influence by that experience is to assume he would be unduely influenced by both Brown's race and the race of his father's killer, which is to assume he is a racist.
Nonsense (see above).
Furthermore, are you willing to apply the same criteria to every DA, Judge, or Detective with any family member severely wronged by any member of any other race, gender, religious group, etc..?
Totally irrelevant to the discussion about the appearance in impartiality in this case.
 
Found an interesting link might be relevant:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...e-cops-on-the-street/383258/?single_page=true
How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street
Officers fired for misconduct often appeal the decision and get reinstated by obscure judges in secretive proceedings.

This seems contrary to logic though. Cops protect us from criminals and thugs and yet we want to get them fired or worse when they do the dirty work their job demands, that real Americans expect of them.
 
Found an interesting link might be relevant:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...e-cops-on-the-street/383258/?single_page=true
How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street
Officers fired for misconduct often appeal the decision and get reinstated by obscure judges in secretive proceedings.

This seems contrary to logic though. Cops protect us from criminals and thugs and yet we want to get them fired or worse when they do the dirty work their job demands, that real Americans expect of them.

Unions protect bad apples? *shocking*
 
I am not ignoring his history on police shootings.
Yes you are.
I am merely not making the same baseless unreasoned assumption that you are that the cops he failed to indict deserved to be indicted.
Again, you ignore the point - it is the appearance that counts.

No, appearances count when they appear that way to reasonable people, and thereby suggest plausible bias. When they only appear that way to unreasonable people then appearance count much less. As you and many others haven proven, unreasonable people will invent any excuse to object, so bending to the current latest invented nonsense is a reckless waste of time. It might be incompatible with your view that the legal system should cobble together any arbitrary decisions needed to achieve your preferred political outcomes, but its better that legal decisions like replacing a prosecutor are based in principle. There is no principle that is plausibly applicable short of claiming that no government decision maker be allowed to make decisions when any of the people involved are of the same race, color, gender, or creed and as any person that ever wrong any member of their family. Any reasoned justification for dismissing McCullough because his dad was killed by a black man would apply to all such other situations. The logistical nightmare that enforcing such a policy would entail makes it untenable and unjustifiable given that it is not based on actual bias but the mere perceived possibility of it.
The other factor in enacting such a policy is its effectiveness in increasing the acceptance of otherwise just procedures. There is no evidence it would.
You and they others getting hysterical and excusing violence over this outcome have proven that your disregard for outcome has nothing to do with facts or procedural fairness. So, it is beyond any doubt that the exact same reaction would be occurring if the prosecutor had no history with a black person killing his dad. You would have just invented a different red herring dishonest excuse to dismiss the outcome. Anyone willing to accept the outcome based upon actual procedural fairness has done so, because objectively the determination to bring charges was rooted in a fair a consideration of the actual evidence related to guilt as one could hope. The fact that you and others wanted the prosecutor to mislead the jury by all means needed to get an indictment doesn't count as evidence against the fairness of the process. Your claim that prosecutors typically engage in such dishonest and biased tactics is not evidence against this process being fair.

Given that very few of the people that cops shoot are unarmed people without any evidence of current or past criminal behavior, the odds are very low that any of the past cases before him involved an unarmed person clearly innocent of criminal wrongdoing.
I fail to see the relevance of this whatsoever. It is almost as if you are condoning the execution of unarmed people because of any possible past criminal wrongdoing.

No. You are claiming that his failure to indite past cops is evidence of bias. That claim logically requires the assumption that he failed to indict cops for which there was clear evidence of criminal use of force. Only then, would a lack of indictments indicate potential bias. It is extremely rare for the kind of evidence needed to support criminal wrongdoing by a cop to be available. Thus, it is highly unlikely any cases before McCullough involved such evidence (just as this case did not). About the most one could expect is the person shot has no evidence of current or past criminal behavior (since past behavior is highly predictive of current behavior). That would raise the probability of the person being innocent to a high enough level that even without direct evidence of a wrongful shooting, it might warrant an indictment and a trial.



Thus, if he were unbiased, we would still not expect him to have indicted cops in the past.
That does not follow from your claims.
Yes it does. Your proven inability to understand basic logic is not a flaw in my argument. IF the kind of detailed evidence needed to show that a cop (who is paid to carry a gun, initiate conflicts with law-breakers, and use force when needed) went criminally outside the law is rare, then it follows that that a given prosecutor would be unlikely to encounter a case with such evidence. Thus, it follows that an unbiased prosecutor (who by definition only indicts when such evidence exists) would rarely indict cops involved in shootings in the line of duty. What doesn't at all follow is your claim that a lack of indictments implies bias.


In addition, as I explained many times now, the kind of specific evidence required to justify charges and a trial is far less common with a cop shooter because of the nature of what they are required to do.
Your explanation is unconvincing.

Few non-cop shooters are allowed to carry guns. The mere fact that that had one at the scene is evidence of their guilt. The fact that a cop has a gun at the scene is not evidence of their guilt. I don't believe that you cannot grasp that simple fact and it and other defining features of cops make many facts that would incriminate a non-cop completely irrelevant to the guilt of a cop. You are not convinced, because you are not interested in reasoned argument or fact. You are a faither that refuses to consider anything not supportive of your ideological worldview and whatever distortions of reality you need to defend it.
What is your specific counter-argument against it? You have and offer none, because your position is faith based and you've never bothered to form a reasoned argument.


Thus, even if some of those past cops before McCullough were guilty of an unwarranted shooting, the odds are low that McCullough would have had that kind of evidence he knew was needed to even make a trial more than a reckless waste of time.
That is utter nonsense and irrelevant to the issue of the appearance of impartiality.

I explained in detail why its the case and you offer no counter to any of my assumptions or reasoning. Just blind faith dismissal. It is also highly relevant to and directly falsifies your assertion that a lack of prior indictments implies bias. It implies no such thing. The fact that unreasonable people like you assert it implies bias is irrelevant because that is a blatant dishonest excuse you are inventing, and you'd just invent another if that one wasn't available. The reasonable appearance of impartiality is what matters, not your unreasonable invented and illogical assertions of impartiality.

Brown and his father's killer have nothing in common except being black. Thus, unless he is a racist bigot who views all blacks as though they are the same, he would not be particular impacted by that fact.
Nonsense. It simply means it brings back memories that make it difficult for him to objectively deal with the situation.

So, you are advocating a policy where anytime any person might encounter anything related to a case that might indirectly trigger memories of a painful past experience, they should be recused of any important decision making. Brilliant.

Furthermore, are you willing to apply the same criteria to every DA, Judge, or Detective with any family member severely wronged by any member of any other race, gender, religious group, etc..?
Totally irrelevant to the discussion about the appearance in impartiality in this case.

It couldn't be more relevant. You have zero evidence of actual impartiality or of anything that any reasonable person would use to infer impartiality. You have nothing but the claim that some people might irrationally infer impartiality from the highly indirect connection between a case and past experiences. Any application of this to recuse McCullogh would require a general principle not just your person arbitrary whim of when it applies. Thus the same standard would need to be applied in all generally similar circumstances.
 
I am not ignoring his history on police shootings. I am merely not making the same baseless unreasoned assumption that you are that the cops he failed to indict deserved to be indicted.

How about just treating them the same way you treat indictment procedures for a civilian?


If he did that, he would have just dropped the case without ever going to grand jury, as he'd do in a civilian case with far more evidence of innocence than guilt. Since cops are allowed to carry and use guns, and be the person to initiate a conflict that then escalates to violence, it is very hard to have evidence that their shooting was a crime. For most civilian shooters, there mere presence of a gun is a crime and evidence of clear intent to commit other crimes. How many times do I have to explain the obvious fact to you? He took it to a grand jury even only because people like you assume that all cop shooting are unjust


Given that very few of the people that cops shoot are unarmed people without any evidence of current or past criminal behavior, the odds are very low that any of the past cases before him involved an unarmed person clearly innocent of criminal wrongdoing.

Evidence that "very few of the people that cops shoot are unarmed people without any evidence of current or past criminal behavior"?

I have presented that evidence to you in other threads, and have no interest in wasting time reproving something that you are pretending you don't know is true.


Thus, if he were unbiased, we would still not expect him to have indicted cops in the past.

If he were unbiased he would have proceeded with this indictment the way he proceeded with all of his other indictments. He didn't.

His bias was in ever bring it to a grand jury. Any civilian with so little evidence against him and so much evidence favoring innocence would never had gone to a grand jury. The case would have been just dropped. The fact that the politics of the case and not the pro-guilt evidence is what prompted the grand jury in the first place inherently made it a different type of grand jury for a different purpose (to make the lack of evidence of guilt transparent rather to get an indictment because their was clear evidence of guilt). Thus, the atypical nature of the grand jury was not a result of bias in hide his guilt, but a bias to demonstrate the objective lack of evidence for his guilt rather than just drop the case as would be done in any non-political case with so little evidence of guilt.



In addition, as I explained many times now, the kind of specific evidence required to justify charges and a trial is far less common with a cop shooter because of the nature of what they are required to do. Thus, even if some of those past cops before McCullough were guilty of an unwarranted shooting, the odds are low that McCullough would have had that kind of evidence he knew was needed to even make a trial more than a reckless waste of time.

And it doesn't cause you to ask the question "why is this specific evidence usually lacking?"

I explained why its lacking. It is also lacking in most cases of civilian shooters. It is simply not the kind of details that there is likely to be evidence of.
It is lacking for the same reason that evidence of many transitional species is lacking in the fossil record. The nature of reality means that such evidence is unlikely to be available. The difference is that such hard to get evidence isn't required to indict civilian shooters because the mere fact that they had illegal had a gun (which most civilian shooters do) is itself a crime and strong evidence of intent to commit other crimes which are the primary purpose for having an illegal gun. That same evidence of having a gun is not a crime for cops nor any implication of intent to commit one, so the other far more hard to get evidence is required to meet the standard to indict (now explained for the 10th time).

It does not require that he is a racist or a bigot. Simply that he is unduly influenced by that experience.

Brown and his father's killer have nothing in common except being black. Thus, unless he is a racist bigot who views all blacks as though they are the same, he would not be particular impacted by that fact.

How do you know? You can read McCulloch's mind?

Know, I just understand basic logic and the established facts of human psychology. You do not. Tranferring his feelings about his fathers killer to someone with no commonality other than race would inherently require that he have made a strong association about the race of his fathers killer and that race is sufficient for him to transfer those feelings to another. That is the only psychologically plausible way it would happen, and that would by definition make him a racist.



Assuming he would be unduely influence by that experience is to assume he would be unduely influenced by both Brown's race and the race of his father's killer, which is to assume he is a racist.

Furthermore, are you willing to apply the same criteria to every DA, Judge, or Detective with any family member severely wronged by any member of any other race, gender, religious group, etc..?

Of course.

Great then a majority of DAs, judges, and detectives need to be recused from a huge % of their cases, because most have people they care about wronged by people with the same gender, race, or other affiliation as the people in their cases.
 
No, appearances count when they appear that way to reasonable people, ....
Once again you miss the point. In order for the outcome of this process to be peacefully accepted by the affected community in a sensitive case like this one, there the appearance of a conflict of interest should be avoided in order to reduce the potential for violence. It doesn't matter whether the community is filled with "reasonable" or "unreasonable" people.
No. You are claiming that his failure to indite past cops is evidence of bias.
I did not make that claim. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that an appearance of a  Conflict_of_interest means bias.
That claim logically requires the assumption that he failed to indict cops for which there was clear evidence of criminal use of force.
No, the straw man claim does not logically require that assumption.
Only then, would a lack of indictments indicate potential bias. It is extremely rare for the kind of evidence needed to support criminal wrongdoing by a cop to be available. Thus, it is highly unlikely any cases before McCullough involved such evidence (just as this case did not).
About the most one could expect is the person shot has no evidence of current or past criminal behavior (since past behavior is highly predictive of current behavior). That would raise the probability of the person being innocent to a high enough level that even without direct evidence of a wrongful shooting, it might warrant an indictment and a trial.
Thank you for confirming you are defending the execution of people with criminal pasts.



Yes it does. Your proven inability to understand basic logic is not a flaw in my argument. IF the kind of detailed evidence needed to show that a cop (who is paid to carry a gun, initiate conflicts with law-breakers, and use force when needed) went criminally outside the law is rare, then it follows that that a given prosecutor would be unlikely to encounter a case with such evidence. Thus, it follows that an unbiased prosecutor (who by definition only indicts when such evidence exists) would rarely indict cops involved in shootings in the line of duty.
You have shifted the goal posts from "not indicated" to "rarely indict".
What doesn't at all follow is your claim that a lack of indictments implies bias.
Of course not, because I never made any claim about bias but about the appearance of a conflict of interest.


Few non-cop shooters are allowed to carry guns.
That is not true at all.
The mere fact that that had one at the scene is evidence of their guilt.
Your conclusion is false because it is based on a false premist.
The fact that a cop has a gun at the scene is not evidence of their guilt. I don't believe that you cannot grasp that simple fact and it and other defining features of cops make many facts that would incriminate a non-cop completely irrelevant to the guilt of a cop.
I fail to see the relevance of that straw man. I never claimed that the cop having a gun at a shooting makes is an indication of guilt. That is a silly claim.
You are not convinced, because you are not interested in reasoned argument or fact. You are a faither that refuses to consider anything not supportive of your ideological worldview and whatever distortions of reality you need to defend it.
This response is a good example of your idea of "a reasoned argument or fact". Apparently we disagree on what that means.
What is your specific counter-argument against it? You have and offer none, because your position is faith based and you've never bothered to form a reasoned argument.
I have no need to counter a straw man argument, let alone one that is based on a moronic premise.

I explained in detail why its the case and you offer no counter to any of my assumptions or reasoning...
It is irrelevant to the issue of the appearance of a conflict of interest.

So, you are advocating a policy where anytime any person might encounter anything related to a case that might indirectly trigger memories of a painful past experience, they should be recused of any important decision making. Brilliant.
Nope. Inside that illogical conclusion is a tacit recognition that McCulloch does not have to be a bigot or a racist to let his father's killing affect his judgment. So there is a little glimmer of hope yet.

It couldn't be more relevant. You have zero evidence of actual impartiality or of anything that any reasonable person would use to infer impartiality. You have nothing but the claim that some people might irrationally infer impartiality from the highly indirect connection between a case and past experiences. Any application of this to recuse McCullogh would require a general principle not just your person arbitrary whim of when it applies. Thus the same standard would need to be applied in all generally similar circumstances.
Once again, you confuse the appearance of X with X, so once again, your little snit is based on a false premise which makes it pointless. McCullough should have recused himself. It would have made the process cleaner and the outcome more acceptable to the community. Perhaps some violence could have been avoided. Of course we will never know.
 
Anyway, returning to the actual OP topic, I doubt this judge will assign a special prosecutor. At this point unless there is some gigantic red flag of error or bias (which I don't see), a special prosecutor will only inflame the another part of the St. Louis community.
 
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