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I visited Trump-country and I was struck by the levels of resentment

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AdamWho

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I visited Trump country and I was struck by the levels of resentment from my family.

Whether it was racial, political, economic, religion, education... you name it, they were in the mindset that they were victims and put-upon my undeserving hoards seeking to take money, labor, and destroy their values.

These are poor, uneducated people living in an impoverished and declining area being propped up by the large cities' tax-base. They complain about being subject to laws handed down by the majority in larger cities who probably don't even know they exist... probably because they don't create or do anything worth noticing.

Segregation based on race, economics, and education status is rampant to the point they don't even know people with college degrees and only tolerate minorities saying "I maybe poor... but at least I am not black". While at the same time they are so resentful of (barely) more successful and educated that they self segregate and constantly proclaim "those people think their better than us" or that they must of cheated to gain their success. I couldn't get them to go to a bar or restaurant they didn't already know as "a good place for us". And this is a pretty small town.

I didn't even see black people while I was there, even though the area as 2x the national average. But on the other hand, many in my family are suspicious of anybody with a college education or job that doesn't require being dirty.


To top it off, I saw a lot of little signs that the racial resentment is starting to increase. People who I know grew up in Klan households are being more public. There are little things in everyday conversations and online that suggest that violence is right under the surface.


What do you make of this? Is it just a "scarcity mindset"?
 
I just came from same (Charleston, West Virginia). It is a zombie town, not yet accepting that it's been dead for years and probably won't ever come back. And the zombies, of course, deny anything is wrong. Everyone is either morbidly obese or meth-addict skeletal. There is nothing for them to eat but utter shit constantly. The healthiest meal you can hope for is a salad at an Olive Garden. Every day it's McDonald's for breakfast, Arbys for lunch, Cracker Barrel for dinner. And snacks are bags of chips and donuts and candy and crap.

It's ten thousand calories from carbohydrates and processed meats every second washed down with 48 ounces of sugar water.

And they fly their confederate flags and talk about coal coming back and how Trump is a god at the exact same time that they know damn well they're fucked and will always be fucked. It's the saddest place I've ever seen and looking around at anyone--any one--is like looking at a gut-shot animal not yet realizing what the wound means.

As to violence, I think there's a lot of talk and sporadic burps here and there, but any kind of organized serious threat? Not a chance. Too fat; too addicted; too dead. And deservedly so for most. Not all, but damn near all. Racist, ignorant pieces of shit.
 
I can't have much sympathy for people who always say we need to "have a thicker skin" and "toughen up". Seems rather hypocritical of them. In fact everything seems rather hypocritical of them.
 
That article was really good.

While my family isn't in the fundamentalist circles, many of those points ring true.

I have a (gay? He won't actually say) friend who is evangelical who is treated poorly by people in his church but he still cannot escape. He could be living an amazing life and have people that accept him if he could just get out.
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
I just came from same (Charleston, West Virginia). It is a zombie town, not yet accepting that it's been dead for years and probably won't ever come back.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of my hometown.

There were all sorts of little manufacturing plants around the area. My dad ran one in the 70s and 80s. And even if you were one of those kids who only did good in "shop class," you could get a job at a "shop" and be okay. My older brother got a job as a "shop rat" at a hydraulics place and it has been his only employer since the age of 19. But that's so extremely rare. He's been lucky.

One of our old friends took a similar path. Working at various shops and making a decent living until the recession hit and he was screwed. Bought a bigger house in the boom and got the double short end of the stick when he got laid off and the market crashed. Now he's a full-on Trump fan. He thinks illegal immigrants are to blame for most of his woes, but he never lost a gig to an illegal immigrant. His job just went away like so many in our little rust belt town had done long ago.


The interesting thing is that the town was dead before. My dad was a history buff of sorts and collected accounts of our home from the early 20th Century. It was a thriving resort town and destination for hunters and fishermen. There were hotels and country clubs on the river that boasted the likes of Teddy Roosevelt and the Ford and Dodge families as guests. Steamers used to bring summer visitors across the lake from Detroit.

Then when cars came around the area slowly died as a tourist destination.
 
ZiprHead said:
I've posted this before on this subject.

An Insider’s View: The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America
Click to expand...

I was reminded of and considered re-posting this article too.

It makes me feel slimy to pass the blame onto the victims, but sometimes that's just the way it is. Change is scary and sometimes dangerous, but also inevitable for some chunk of the population in every generation (especially in capitalist economies). Those who refuse to acknowledge or adapt to changes to the environment they are accustomed to have nobody to blame but themselves. Even if a person thinks they can pinpoint an individual or group who bears the lion's share of responsibility for the changes that are causing him/her grief, it still remains that person's duty to make choices that are in their best interests.

In the US, these choices DO still exist. They might be inconvenient or uncomfortable, but floundering rural residents can still make these choices and find their way back to a productive comfortable lifestyle.

But so many of these people refuse to adapt or change and instead of making the choice to do so they watch their health and happiness deteriorate around them which only fuels their antipathy for the (usually mostly undeserving) scapegoat they have identified.

In 20- 50 years new technologies might make city jobs obsolete and then the urban dwellers will be forced to make these difficult choices. But as it stands now, dissatisfied rural citizens are leading the life they have chosen, for better or for worse.
 
A lot of the anti-intelectualism in the right is due to the perception that education is liberal propaganda. The growing liberal orthodoxy on university campuses (where visual and racial diversity is pushed but diversity of ideas is discouraged; as increasingly is free speech) enforce that notion for them. Mix that in with their religious views leaving them away from education (the Bible has all the answers yo) and they hyper partisan culture, their aversion to change and harkening to a better yesteryear, andt that they are indeed ignored by most, and it has led them to the resentment you are seeing.

I don't see this changing any time soon.
 
I worry that we have too strong a tendency to oversimplify and stereotype groups of people that we disagree with. The Donald Trump phenomenon is not just a rural America or fundamentalist Christian problem. There is a global movement towards authoritarian governments and xenophobia. Large numbers of people are fleeing poverty and violence.

In our case, many of the refugees come from Central American states like Mexico and Guatemala. Trump's support is at a steady 40% of all adult Americans and is only dropping slowly because of Trump's increasingly erratic meltdowns. What keeps 2 out of 5 Americans in his pocket? Republican politicians are terrified of losing that base of support, so Trump is now essentially unimpeachable. It is no accident that Trump sees the "wall" as his top priority. He is riding the wave of xenophobia that swept him into power. Without that, he has no hold on power.
 
We've known for decades, nearly a century that some people are not educable. This was all well and fine as long as society needed many hands to snap two widgets together and were able to pay them a living wage to do so. Society does not need these people any longer. Yet these people still exist. These people are still having babies. Instead of addressing their needs, we push this 'higher education for all' crap on people that will never be capable of higher education. Some are barely capable of secondary education.
You expect them to self-assess and make the necessary changes? They are not capable of doing so, so they naturally find someone else to blame. They need to be governed. They need to be assessed and provided choices of employment commensurate with their skills and aptitude. Employment provided at various levels of government paid for with the tax dollars of those with the skills and aptitude that has rewarded them with high paying jobs and a comfortable life. The gifted need to take care of the inept. Until then these disadvantaged people will cling to whatever Trump-like creature that comes along and says they have a right to be mad and that he will bring back their jobs snapping widgets together or digging coal out of the ground or whatever.
They do have a right to be mad. Society has forgotten these people that are incapable of finding a path forward. They're angry and are snapping at whatever helping hand gets near them. What did you expect?
 
Most insidious: the steady denunciation of "Fake News!" has conditioned Trump's fans to be open only to manipulation from their far right echo chambers.
 
The Trump supporters in my city don't fit any stereotype. There are plenty of wealthy ones who always vote for Republicans, at least partially out of fear of having to pay more taxes. There are some who aren't educated who don't even realize why they are voting Republican, other than someone told them too. Many of these people are very nice, and I've never noticed any obvious signs of racism among them. I know a few of them.

But, the worst ones are often meth addicted, white assholes who may or may not have jobs, sometimes due to their own lack of motivation. Many of them do intermittently work for cash and never pay taxes. Trump supporters come in all different varieties but almost all of them are white. This last group is racist, from what I can tell. They live sad, unhappy lives. I have a couple of friends who have family members in this group. They vent to me often.

I don't think that lack of formal education is the major issue, because I also have quite a few black friends and acquaintances who are high school grads, did factory work all of their lives, are either poor or lower middle class, are very religious, but not preachy, and all of them vote for Democrats. This group tends to be very tolerant, supports immigration, abortion and gay marriage. I discuss politics with one of them at least an hour or two every week. I also have briefly talked about Trump with several of the others. One who I am very fond of, simply tells me that we need to pray to God. She's a dear person but doesn't seem as smart as the others. This group tends to be pretty happy, and they rarely complain much about their situations in life.

I forgot to add, that there is even a very nice home on one of the cities most desirable streets that still has a sign up in the front of their house that reads: "Never Hillary". Sometimes I check just to see if it's still there and it is. There are many people in my town, who will vote for anyone who has an R after their name. That's what I see where I live. I live in a small city that is racially integrated far more than any place I've ever lived and with few exceptions, most people get along well.

Maybe the major problem is where people get their news from. Fox is very popular here. :rolleyes:
 
Copernicus said:
I worry that we have too strong a tendency to oversimplify and stereotype groups of people that we disagree with. The Donald Trump phenomenon is not just a rural America or fundamentalist Christian problem.
Click to expand...

True. Indeed, he actually attracted a significant amount of rich white people as well that always seem to be missing from anyone's scrutiny/ire.

There is a global movement towards authoritarian governments and xenophobia.
Click to expand...

Is it a "movement"? Or is it being fomented? Not to put too much emphasis on Putin, but we can certainly see his fingerprints on a LOT of what's been going on globally over the last five years at least, starting with the Crimea/Ukraine; then Brexit; the US (and through it, NATO); Iran/Syria; China (and possibly N Korea by proxy); Saudi Arabia; and now (arguably) Venezuela.

There is a pattern, certainly, but I don't think it's just something that organically sprang up. It may be global growing pains, if you will, that have been cleverly stoked and strategically leveraged, but there is most definitely one hand that touches every pot on that stove.

To exactly what extent may still be in question, but if this were a serial murder case, all the red yarn on the "scrub down" board would lead to Putin.
 
southernhybrid said:
Maybe the major problem is where people get their news from. Fox is very popular here. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Are you in the area of Macon, Savannah, or Albany? That's where 11 Sinclair Broadcasting stations bleat their continual State TV message...
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
Copernicus said:
I worry that we have too strong a tendency to oversimplify and stereotype groups of people that we disagree with. The Donald Trump phenomenon is not just a rural America or fundamentalist Christian problem.
Click to expand...

True. Indeed, he actually attracted a significant amount of rich white people as well that always seem to be missing from anyone's scrutiny/ire.

There is a global movement towards authoritarian governments and xenophobia.
Click to expand...

Is it a "movement"? Or is it being fomented? Not to put too much emphasis on Putin, but we can certainly see his fingerprints on a LOT of what's been going on globally over the last five years at least, starting with the Crimea/Ukraine; then Brexit; the US (and through it, NATO); Iran/Syria; China (and possibly N Korea by proxy); Saudi Arabia; and now (arguably) Venezuela.

There is a pattern, certainly, but I don't think it's just something that organically sprang up. It may be global growing pains, if you will, that have been cleverly stoked and strategically leveraged, but there is most definitely one hand that touches every pot on that stove.

To exactly what extent may still be in question, but if this were a serial murder case, all the red yarn on the "scrub down" board would lead to Putin.
Click to expand...

IMO, Putin is just another politician who discovered that nativist demagoguery was a path to power--not unlike Mussolini, Hitler, Trump, etc. I see him as taking advantage of a growing refugee problem that will get even worse as global warming reduces territory viable for large human population centers. He can use the crisis to enhance his own grip on domestic power by standing up to foreign enemies that are allegedly behind all of his failed domestic policies.
 
Copernicus said:
I worry that we have too strong a tendency to oversimplify and stereotype groups of people that we disagree with. The Donald Trump phenomenon is not just a rural America or fundamentalist Christian problem. There is a global movement towards authoritarian governments and xenophobia.
Click to expand...

A good point. Another is that to a very large extent, Trump didn't win the election in 2016; Hillary lost it. And Trump's rise to power wasn't just about authoritarianism or xenophobia. There was more to it that people often forget about. Populism generally was popular, which also explained how Bernie Sanders rose so far from such obscurity.

Nor can "flyover country" be reduced to simple "xenophobia" etc. Its part of it for sure. But there is a lot more going on with this than that.
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
Copernicus said:
I worry that we have too strong a tendency to oversimplify and stereotype groups of people that we disagree with. The Donald Trump phenomenon is not just a rural America or fundamentalist Christian problem.
Click to expand...

True. Indeed, he actually attracted a significant amount of rich white people as well that always seem to be missing from anyone's scrutiny/ire.

There is a global movement towards authoritarian governments and xenophobia.
Click to expand...

Is it a "movement"? Or is it being fomented? Not to put too much emphasis on Putin, but we can certainly see his fingerprints on a LOT of what's been going on globally over the last five years at least, starting with the Crimea/Ukraine; then Brexit; the US (and through it, NATO); Iran/Syria; China (and possibly N Korea by proxy); Saudi Arabia; and now (arguably) Venezuela.

There is a pattern, certainly, but I don't think it's just something that organically sprang up. It may be global growing pains, if you will, that have been cleverly stoked and strategically leveraged, but there is most definitely one hand that touches every pot on that stove.

To exactly what extent may still be in question, but if this were a serial murder case, all the red yarn on the "scrub down" board would lead to Putin.
Click to expand...

He also, in general, did better with minorities compared to Romney. At least when split up into "Asian, Latino, and Black."

Now, for the Black electorate, that probably isn't a fair comparison, because Obama obviously did very well, so there wasn't a lot of room to do better, and plenty of room to do worse.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
A lot of the anti-intelectualism in the right is due to the perception that education is liberal propaganda. The growing liberal orthodoxy on university campuses (where visual and racial diversity is pushed but diversity of ideas is discouraged; as increasingly is free speech) enforce that notion for them. Mix that in with their religious views leaving them away from education (the Bible has all the answers yo) and they hyper partisan culture, their aversion to change and harkening to a better yesteryear, andt that they are indeed ignored by most, and it has led them to the resentment you are seeing.

I don't see this changing any time soon.
Click to expand...


Conservatism is inherently opposed to education and always has been. Education inherently means every changing ideas and no deference to tradition. That is antithetical to the very foundation of a conservative mindset.
Attacks on schools and education have come from the right for centuries, especially since education was no longer dominated and controlled by religious authority. The Scopes trial of 1925 was not simply about teaching Evolution. It was the culmination of a more general cultural opposition to education and modernism and change more generally intertwined with racism and nationalism since increased education requirements coincided with post-industrial urbanization and waves of new immigrants (especially "swarthy" eastern Europeans) after WW1.

Recent issues on campuses regarding left-wing agendas and free speech restrictions (are only a sincere concern for actual liberals) but are an overblown smokescreen and have little to do with the deep and centuries old anti-intellectualism of the right and conservatism.
 
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