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I was wrong to say that Trumpism is the inevitable result of the evolution of movement conservatism

SimpleDon

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I have pushed the idea on these pages that Trumpism is the inevitable result of 40 years of movement conservatism and neoliberalism. That its journey, pushed by the triangulation of the rightward movement of the Democrats, had gone ever further rightward through the full range of conservatism to full blown reactionary and that it had to finally end up on the doorstep of fascism, which is where we find it today.

I now think that this is wrong, that Trumpism is the result of the failures of movement conservatism and neoliberalism to deliver on their promises, especially to the lower income, largely rural, whites who are Trump's core of support. An admittedly subtle, but I think important, difference.*

There is no question that movement conservatism and neoliberalism have failed. Their failures came to the fore in full force in the Bush 43 administration. They failed on all of the fronts where they drew a battle; foreign affairs, the economy, theology, governance and the social wars.

The prominent events and social trends of Bush 43's term were examples of the failures of movement conservatism and neoliberalism,

  • 9/11 and the threat of terrorism from non-government entities like al Qaeda,
  • the two failed Middle Eastern Wars, and with those the failure of doctrine of diplomacy through military strength, while throwing away our greatest asset in foreign affairs, our moral leadership,
  • the failures of the two supply side tax cuts to improve the daily lives of the vast majority of people in the country,
  • channeling H.Ross Perot, the great sucking sound as jobs, capital and intellectual property left the US in the greatest (unintentional) foreign aid program ever undertaken, a trade deficit that was one half of a trillion dollars in 2016, a program that greatly strengthened one of our two greatest geopolitical enemies and the only remaining major communist country on the planet, China,
  • the Great Financial Crisis and Great Recession, the gift that keeps on giving from the deregulation of Wall Street with a special shout out to the banks too big to let fail,
  • the turn away from religion, if largely in practice and not yet openly voiced,
  • the broad acceptance of homosexual marriage, out of wedlock births and single parent homes,
  • the continued growth of the federal government and the budget deficit, suggesting to the astute that both might possibly be important beyond their use as political whipping posts,
  • the world wide acceptance of the truth of climate change,
  • the growing realization of the failure of the war against drugs, the idea that harsh and ever increasing prison sentences probably aren't the best way to deter non-violent crime,
  • that no one outside of the Republican establishment is on board with cuts to Social Security and Medicare,
  • that illegal immigration is not just a source of cheap labor that has to be normalized into a guest worker program to continue to provide a cheap source of labor,
  • that the healthcare industry is more important than just as a place to soak up excess financial capital and to test the appropriateness of the free market principles, especially when doing so doubles the cost of health care every seven years, that these spiraling costs were single handedly destroying American competitiveness, that people who can't afford health care die quite often,
all either resulted directly from movement conservatism and neoliberal dogmas or flew in the face of the same.**

It is not an accident that all of these failures occurred to the first generation of conservative politicians raised believing that movement conservatism and neoliberalism constituted a valid set of policies with which to run the country and not just a cynical way to gain enough political power to give the wealthy more tax cuts. Conservative policies are always doomed to failure, especially in a dynamic society like ours.

Am I being too optimistic? If Trumpism is the result of the failures of movement conservatism and neoliberalism, then the inevitable bust up of Trumpism should signal the end of movement conservatism and neoliberalism, right?

Too optimistic would be if I thought that these failures were beginning to be realized by conservatives themselves. It doesn't seem to be the case even among our urbane and knowledgeable conservatives here.

If this tax bill didn't convince conservatives that the purpose of movement conservatism and neoliberalism is to increase the incomes and the wealth of the already wealthy, then I don't know what it will take. If the average conservative is so insulated from reality that they don't know that this tax bill provides 60% of its benefits to the top 1% initially and 80% of its benefits after 10 years, that Obama and the Democrats provided a a true middle class tax cut, a larger tax cut to the bottom 90% than this tax bill does, I then I don't know how to reach them.

===========================​

* I don't say this to diminish the role of the Democrats in this. We certainly bear a great deal of the blame for where we are today, we played politics when we should have been doing what we had always done before, to stand up for the 99%, to stand up for the New Deal and the Great Society, to stand up for social democracy and to stand up for the workers. We overestimated the power of money in politics and underestimated the power of a good idea and policies that help people. We sold our souls to Wall Street.

** The only thing that doesn't seem to have blown up in the faces of movement conservatives and neoliberals yet is the issue of abortion, even as it has turned into largely an issue of contraception, which makes a hypocrite out of nearly every pro-life advocate.

It is regrettable that abortion on demand was introduced by judicial fiat, but lost in subsequent moralizing about the subject is the fact that it was successfully adopted in five states including Kansas and signed into law by no less than Mr. Conservative himself, Ronald Reagan in California, although as a public health issue, which it once again is destined to become as Republicans are more successful restricting it.

I cobbled this together from multiple sources, primarily economics blogs, like Marginal Revolution and Evonomics, but also The New York Times, and The Washington Post.

But unlike my normal rants I can cite a single source for 80% of this post, this article from the economic blog Noahopinion.

Jolly Penguin told me that instead of derailing, (he was too polite to use that word), a thread by going on and on I should start a new thread. This could backfire as I have way too much idle time on my hands and a backlog of peer reviewed, stonewall facts crudely formed opinions that I haven't been able to express sneak in threads not appropriate for them.
 
The idea that Trumpism came about as a result of the failure of movement conservatism does not necessarily mean that it is incorrect to say that it was the inevitable result of movement conservatism.

You might say that movement conservatism never meant to fulfill its 'promises.' You might say that movement conservatism was destined to fail, even designed to fail.
 
The idea that Trumpism came about as a result of the failure of movement conservatism does not necessarily mean that it is incorrect to say that it was the inevitable result of movement conservatism.

You might say that movement conservatism never meant to fulfill its 'promises.' You might say that movement conservatism was destined to fail, even designed to fail.

Ya, it's like saying poverty and dictatorship are a result of the failure to properly implement communism as opposed to being the inevitable result of attempting to implement it.

If a philosophy is inherently flawed and those flaws guarantee failure, then the failed results are the inevitable results of the philosophy.
 
If this tax bill didn't convince conservatives that the purpose of movement conservatism and neoliberalism is to increase the incomes and the wealth of the already wealthy, then I don't know what it will take. If the average conservative is so insulated from reality that they don't know that this tax bill provides 60% of its benefits to the top 1% initially and 80% of its benefits after 10 years, that Obama and the Democrats provided a a true middle class tax cut, a larger tax cut to the bottom 90% than this tax bill does, I then I don't know how to reach them.
the problem with this line of thinking (and indeed of the general inability of 'the left' to understand trump supporters) is that it fails to grasp a fundamental truth about poor rural conservatives: they think they're rich people who just don't have their money yet.

nearly every small town uneducated poor ass republican voter believes, with the power of faith derived from their magical thinking about jesus, that they're just one gas station lottery ticket or suitcase full of cash on a public bus or crackpot invention away from being showered in money, and that it's not a question of *if* they're going to be billionaires it's simply a question of how soon.
thusly, they see shit like this tax bill and think "oh good, now when i get my millions it won't be as taxed" - they honestly view those around them as degenerate welfare queens while ignoring the fact they're in the exact same position, due to their absolute certainty that any second now they're going to find out a rich great-uncle from bulgaria left them a mining fortune.

you can't use logic, or examples, or the basic concept of actions and direct consequences with these people, because none of that is applicable.
this is all magical jesus thinking being applied to 21st century politics.
 
Personally, I'm still unconvinced that the issue with jobs is "moving to other countries", rather than automation, and the fact that Dolt45 is entirely uninterested in this issue, as well as many other modern issues such as man-made climate change, and instead clings to old models like "Good American Steel" and "coal mining" is aggravating beyond belief. Granted, in small towns and rural areas, there are a lot of areas of areas that absolutely need economic stimulus, retraining, high-speed internet to connect to the modern economy, and so on. But both can be addressed simultaneously, rather than screeching about "the Mexicans".

As to the rest of it - a lot of whet led to the idiot being elected has to do with the US' goofball electoral system (which also got us President GWB - who at least meant well even if he was both incurious, and had a number of truly terrible advisors), Trump's appeal to the nakedly white supremacist backlash against President Obama, which the GOP has carefully cultivated only to react in horror at the inevitable result, and yes I agree, the perverting of the US government and major businesses to enrich the lucky few no matter the harm to the rest.

I'd actually say that the major problem with the Dems over the past decade is that they didn't "play politics", or at least not as I understand it. Voter suppression and caging, gerrymandering, and the like have been issues for a long time now, and it was very clear starting in the GWB Era that the GOP was preparing to use them at full throttle - Toupee Fiasco's recently disbanded Voter Suppression Committee was a Who's Who of these efforts, stemming back 15 to 20 years. And yet, even when the end results became obvious in states like North Carolina, the democrats just did nothing, even as activists and voters sounded alarms over this - and yes, I do partly blame Obama for this inaction, as the DNC withered under his watch.

There's also the matter of far too much infighting among liberal/progressive/whatever voters, what with the "Bernie bros" refusing to vote for Hillary after she won the election, aided by youtube shows like Secular Talk and loons like Jimmy Dore - or for that matter, guys like Cornell West absurdly referring to writers like Ta-Nehisi Coates as "Neo-Liberal" (Coates literally wrote the case for reparations, and has suggested the federal government implement a Universal Minimum Income, rather than a minimum hourly wage - if anything, he's to the left of Sanders). And yes, there are also Hillary fanatics that were ready and willing to cuss out anyone who favored any other candidate as well. But if you voted for Sanders in the primary, and then Trump in the general, I have to give you the side-eye, and really wonder if you aren't simply sexist. I'll agree that quite a few of these clowns also sat out 2010 because Obama "promised us single-payer" or "promised to withdraw from Afghanistan" (he promised neither, and in any case, presidential pledges often collapse once Congress shows up). But still, a lot of people simply refused to believe Dolt45 the first, or even hundredth, time when he showed us all who he was.
 
I think the OP has a part of it, but there also seems to be some things missing. Maybe the conspiracy theory, the distrust of facts and expertise as "elitist" and social backlash. Yes, a lot of what the OP mentioned did fail, but when they did they had to blame someone else for their failures.
 
the problem with this line of thinking (and indeed of the general inability of 'the left' to understand trump supporters) is that it fails to grasp a fundamental truth about poor rural conservatives: they think they're rich people who just don't have their money yet.

nearly every small town uneducated poor ass republican voter believes, with the power of faith derived from their magical thinking about jesus, that they're just one gas station lottery ticket or suitcase full of cash on a public bus or crackpot invention away from being showered in money, and that it's not a question of *if* they're going to be billionaires it's simply a question of how soon.
That is a very big part of it. In Trump they see themselves. It's weird, I know.

As to the OP I will jump on my hobby horse and restate that the conservatism today is a result of the liberalism that ensued for decades prior. The liberalism worked. Today's conservatives are living fucking proof.
 
nearly every small town uneducated poor ass republican voter believes, with the power of faith derived from their magical thinking about jesus, that they're just one gas station lottery ticket or suitcase full of cash on a public bus or crackpot invention away from being showered in money, and that it's not a question of *if* they're going to be billionaires it's simply a question of how soon.

Yeah, I know that time travel is impossible, but I'm this close to getting my perpetual motion machine to work if Big Oil don't fuck me up. But Joel Osteen says I'll make it with the help of jeebus if I'll just keep up those monthly contributions.
 
Personally, I'm still unconvinced that the issue with jobs is "moving to other countries", rather than automation, .

It is both and also the fact that many jobs are low skill and do not pay a living wage.

Neither outsourcing or automation is the culprit.

Unemployment is govt's price control mechanism. Despite all the hoopla about deficits, govt spending is lower than needed for full employment. Because full employment is considered undesirable.
 
nearly every small town uneducated poor ass republican voter believes, with the power of faith derived from their magical thinking about jesus, that they're just one gas station lottery ticket or suitcase full of cash on a public bus or crackpot invention away from being showered in money, and that it's not a question of *if* they're going to be billionaires it's simply a question of how soon.

Yeah, I know that time travel is impossible, but I'm this close to getting my perpetual motion machine to work if Big Oil don't fuck me up. But Joel Osteen says I'll make it with the help of jeebus if I'll just keep up those monthly contributions.

Sure of that? Last week:

Cheap Gas.jpg

(Sorry about the overexposed image. All I had was my phone, not a proper camera. It says 7 9/10)

On the other hand, the cheapest historical gas I can find is 17 cents/gallon so I don't know where the time warp sent me.
 
Personally, I'm still unconvinced that the issue with jobs is "moving to other countries", rather than automation, and the fact that Dolt45 is entirely uninterested in this issue, as well as many other modern issues such as man-made climate change, and instead clings to old models like "Good American Steel" and "coal mining" is aggravating beyond belief. Granted, in small towns and rural areas, there are a lot of areas of areas that absolutely need economic stimulus, retraining, high-speed internet to connect to the modern economy, and so on. But both can be addressed simultaneously, rather than screeching about "the Mexicans".

You don't believe that the trade deficit of 500 billion dollars, wouldn't create any jobs if it was spent on American made products rather than products from overseas? This is in my mind extremely short sighted. I would appreciate an explanation of your think about this, what would the 500 billion dollars create if not jobs?

There is nothing wrong with automation and increasing productivity. This is how the economy grows and improves. The problem that we have is that capital claims all of the benefits from improvements in productivity . Before 1975 the rewards from increased productivity were evenly split between capital and labor, between higher profits and higher wages. This is reasonable, productivity is after all, the amount of production divided by the amount of labor. The reason that it changed was that neoliberal government policies reduced effectively the ability of labor to negotiate wages that increased beyond the amount of inflation, the cost of living increases in wages.

As to the rest of it - a lot of whet led to the idiot being elected has to do with the US' goofball electoral system (which also got us President GWB - who at least meant well even if he was both incurious, and had a number of truly terrible advisors), Trump's appeal to the nakedly white supremacist backlash against President Obama, which the GOP has carefully cultivated only to react in horror at the inevitable result, and yes I agree, the perverting of the US government and major businesses to enrich the lucky few no matter the harm to the rest.

I'd actually say that the major problem with the Dems over the past decade is that they didn't "play politics", or at least not as I understand it. Voter suppression and caging, gerrymandering, and the like have been issues for a long time now, and it was very clear starting in the GWB Era that the GOP was preparing to use them at full throttle - Toupee Fiasco's recently disbanded Voter Suppression Committee was a Who's Who of these efforts, stemming back 15 to 20 years. And yet, even when the end results became obvious in states like North Carolina, the democrats just did nothing, even as activists and voters sounded alarms over this - and yes, I do partly blame Obama for this inaction, as the DNC withered under his watch.

I was referring to the Clinton blue dog democrats moving to the right to box in the Republicans, to try to deny the Republicans any moderate votes. You are correct, the Democrats forgot O'Neill's observation that all politics is local. The Democrats didn't contest local elections. The Republicans made efforts all of the way down to school boards. If you don't do this, you have no training grounds for politicians. If you don't control the state legislatures, you don't control the redistricting of legislative and congressional districts.

There's also the matter of far too much infighting among liberal/progressive/whatever voters, what with the "Bernie bros" refusing to vote for Hillary after she won the election, aided by youtube shows like Secular Talk and loons like Jimmy Dore - or for that matter, guys like Cornell West absurdly referring to writers like Ta-Nehisi Coates as "Neo-Liberal" (Coates literally wrote the case for reparations, and has suggested the federal government implement a Universal Minimum Income, rather than a minimum hourly wage - if anything, he's to the left of Sanders). And yes, there are also Hillary fanatics that were ready and willing to cuss out anyone who favored any other candidate as well. But if you voted for Sanders in the primary, and then Trump in the general, I have to give you the side-eye, and really wonder if you aren't simply sexist. I'll agree that quite a few of these clowns also sat out 2010 because Obama "promised us single-payer" or "promised to withdraw from Afghanistan" (he promised neither, and in any case, presidential pledges often collapse once Congress shows up). But still, a lot of people simply refused to believe Dolt45 the first, or even hundredth, time when he showed us all who he was.

Mark Twain said that he was not a member of an organized political party, that he was a Democrat.
 
Personally, I'm still unconvinced that the issue with jobs is "moving to other countries", rather than automation, .

It is both and also the fact that many jobs are low skill and do not pay a living wage.

That is the issue isn't it? There shouldn't be work that doesn't pay a decent wage. If someone is willing to work they should earn a decent wage. It is one of the successes of neoliberalism that this has been forgotten, that there are jobs that deserve to be poorly paid, that there is some mysterious arbiter of value that if we violate and pay too much will blow up the economy. There isn't.

If you agree with mumbles that if the 500 billion dollar trade deficit was instead used to buy American made products that it wouldn't add any jobs in the US, then perhaps you could explain why? I don't see why automation or low skills would do it.
 
I am in a hotel, my house is being redecorated. The hotel's Wifi and my anti-virus program aren't playing well together. I seem to be in period of relative peace right now, but I don't know how long it will last.
 
I think the OP has a part of it, but there also seems to be some things missing. Maybe the conspiracy theory, the distrust of facts and expertise as "elitist" and social backlash. Yes, a lot of what the OP mentioned did fail, but when they did they had to blame someone else for their failures.
Many of them have conditioned themselves to this type of thinking, for decades. e.g. Their views on evolution.
You see a little of this also on the extreme Left. (Postmodernism, My-subjective-views-are-just-as-valid types)
 
I think the OP has a part of it, but there also seems to be some things missing. Maybe the conspiracy theory, the distrust of facts and expertise as "elitist" and social backlash. Yes, a lot of what the OP mentioned did fail, but when they did they had to blame someone else for their failures.
Many of them have conditioned themselves to this type of thinking, for decades. e.g. Their views on evolution.
You see a little of this also on the extreme Left. (Postmodernism, My-subjective-views-are-just-as-valid types)

Yes,. To be brutally honest, facts, reality, the way things are, are not kind to conservative ideology and to conservatives themselves. They need a constant stream of lies to assure them that their beloved status quo is not creating the problems that we are seeing everywhere. Which of course, it is.

Yes, there is a stream of liberalism that is complete bullsh*t, GMO's, anti-nuclear power, anti-vaccines, extreme multiculturalism and political crorrectness, etc., but the problems caused by these these pale in comparison to the damage done by neoliberal economic policy and movement conservatism's foreign affairs fiascoes, regulatory laxity, support of racism, war on drugs and crime in the streets combined with a serious disregard toward white collar crime, etc.
 
...conservatives long ago accepted the twentieth-century reality that the modern economy is bound up inextricably in the state, that regulation is not a burden on private enterprise but a necessary condition for its existence in most spheres of economic activity, and they have adapted their politics to this reality by making it essentially into a politics of skimming off of state structures rather than opposing them, except as a matter of ritual and rhetoric. Those who feel the pull of the eighteenth century — there are a few, Paul Ryan comes to mind — have tended to remain on the fringe, although in some cases getting dangerously close to the levers of power.

The rhetoric of the free market in this situation serves mainly as a cudgel to discipline liberals and progressives and to prevent the development of a coherent worldview on the center-left; in this way left critics who speak with realism about the state are also marginalized within their own frame of political activity. That is, they are subordinated to a leadership which feels the urge on all occasions to pay obeisance and deference to the concepts of the free market and the free enterprise economy. And certain elements of a political agenda that might be construed as socialist — the single-payer option for health insurance, the public banking system, and in recent years, the purely public form of public works, are taken off the menu.

James Galbraith, the Predator State
 
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