I'm a Fascist. Am I welcome here?

[Ford]

I love Joseph Stalin too.

So to sum up...

"Benito was a saint, because he aligned with Hitler to take on Stalin, and I sure do love me some Stalin."


Is there any murderous dictator you don't admire?

 

[Matthew Mussolini]

I love Joseph Stalin too.

So to sum up...

"Benito was a saint, because he aligned with Hitler to take on Stalin, and I sure do love me some Stalin."


Is there any murderous dictator you don't admire?

I love them. I despise many of their deeds. I hope Joseph Stalin is in Heaven and that I will meet him some day and that he repents.

I absolutely hate what Stalin did though. It was worse than Hitler.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The Doctrine of Fascism is the essence of Fascism and is without violence or racism, therefore Fascism in it's intrinsic nature is peaceful.

Democracy is racist and violent by your logic, because look at all the racist laws we had in America, genocide of Indians, and the terrorist attacks on civilians when we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

No, that was not a reflection of Democracy. Neither is behavior of Fascists a reflection of the intrinsic nature and essence of Fascism.

The Doctrine of Fascism has no violence, so...

So how come all fascist dictatorships ended up being incredibly violent, constantly searching for anything weak to attack. Italy wasn't the only fascist state. Argentina under Peron. Chile under Pinochet. Syria under Assad. Iraq under Saddam. Turkey under Atatürk. Spain under Franco. Japan under Kunoye. Hungary under Horthy. While Germany under Hitler technically isn't fascism. It certainly comes pretty damn close. Not to mention the large group of fascist dictators in banana republics and in Africa.

All very similar. All a complete shit show of corrupt governments committing gross acts of violence upon it's own population and most often others.

If the doctrine of fascism doesn't preach violence, how come that's always how it's ended up being? They're ALL the same. There's no example of a fascist state that hasn't turned into an orgy of violence upon it's own population. And the degree of violence is another point. They're unsurpassed in the grotesqueness of the violence. Their torture methods are the cruelest humanity has ever devised. And they didn't hesitate to use it. They would execute people for the mildest of transgressions.

Your point of fascism being a peaceful ideology is a hard sell. You'd might as well convince me that Stalin was the friend of the working class.

For the same reason Democracies can be so violent.

In the 20th century, I'm guessing atheist regimes killed five times as many people as Fascists. Does that make Atheism violent?

Technically I think communist regimes is a type of fascist regime. They're the same types of governments. What sets them apart is the symbols they use and the bullshit phrases their leaders use in speeches. But in practice living under their rule played out much the same way. Pinochet being the outlier, since he didn't wreck the Chilean economy in the process. All the other fascists (and communists did).

So I think you are splitting hairs here.

While democracies can start wars and have been violent throughout the ages, they're not going to go to war for personal glory of the leader. It's only wars about curbing the expansionary ambitions of fascist (or communist) countries. So there is a difference. Democracies don't engage in wars of expansion.

 

[ZiprHead]

This thread is now closed for a massive clean-up. It will be reopened when complete.

Stop it now. You are causing a massive amount of work for the moderators.

 

[ZiprHead]

The thread has now been reopened.

 

[laughing dog]

Your logic fails. American Democracy isn't peaceful either then because we commit genocide against native Americans, committed the worst terrorist attacks in history, had slaves, segregation laws, and per capita we incarcerate more people than Fascist Italy.

So, Democracy is NOT peaceful according to your logic.

I made no claim about Democracy being peaceful. You made an affirmative claim that fascism was peaceful. Unfortunately for you, history rebuts your claim.

Fascism in it's intrinsic nature is peaceful and I clarified what I meant by that. The Doctrine of Fascism is it's essence, and is nonviolent.

Then why are historical applications of this instrinsically peaceful doctrine so violent?

 

[Matthew Mussolini]

Fascism in it's intrinsic nature is peaceful and I clarified what I meant by that. The Doctrine of Fascism is it's essence, and is nonviolent.

Then why are historical applications of this instrinsically peaceful doctrine so violent?

Because they are so damn anti communist! In the case of Germany it was to retaliate over the loss of World War 2 and the treaty of Versailles.

Democracies have been very violent as well.

Vatican City State is a Fascist country technically.

 

[Deborah]

@Matthew Mussolini
Jonah Goldberg in his book, "Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the Left from Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning", characterises fascism as follows:
"Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action of the state is justified to achieve the common good."
Would you agree with this characterisation?

 

[laughing dog]

Fascism in it's intrinsic nature is peaceful and I clarified what I meant by that. The Doctrine of Fascism is it's essence, and is nonviolent.

Then why are historical applications of this instrinsically peaceful doctrine so violent?

Because they are so damn anti communist! In the case of Germany it was to retaliate over the loss of World War 2 and the treaty of Versailles.

Democracies have been very violent as well.

Vatican City State is a Fascist country technically.

So, if fascists are so damn anti______ (fill in the blank, because in Italy, communists were not the only people fascists went after) that it makes them violent, how can anyone reasonably conclude that fascism is inherently peaceful?

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

I'm sure Matthew loves Yakubu Gowon, Idi Amin and Ruhollah Khomeini because they embodied the Fuhrerprinzip so well.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[Loren Pechtel]

to 1960--and the US suicide rate has been pretty much flat over that interval.

Which probably means it's gone down. Such a stigma to suicide over so many years, a lot of authorities would rule it an accident to spare the family, if they possibly could.
Read a british doctor/historian account of Beachy Head. They once cut their suicide rate in half. Not by policing the cliffs people kept jumping off of, but by hiring a new coroner.
If there was no suicide note, or a witness to a statement of intent to kill themself, he would put 'misadventure' on the death certificate.

So, rates of such things are hard yo nail down...

Yeah, and as forensic technology has improved it's become more possible to figure out what actually happened--more suicides will be identified for what they are.

There's also the issue that medical suicides are probably up--we save a lot of people that would have been lost in the past, but all too often those saves don't produce much quality of life. Thus I would think a flat suicide rate means depression-triggered suicide has gone down.