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"I'm not a white supremacist b/c I think Asians are the smartest!"

You seem confused by the thread op. It's "if you believe X, it doesn't mean you're not Y." It's not "if you believe X, it means you're Y."

But I'm not confused. If the OP believes X cannot exist without Y, it puts a different perspective on things, no?

My detailed reply to your question is above and you should read that first, but it's worthwhile to directly address this exchange here. The point of the OP is that belief in X (that Asians are innately more intelligent than whites) is perfectly compatible with the core underlying motive of white supremacy to view the vast majority of non-whites within your society as innately inferior.

In fact, as detailed in my above reply, this belief actually supports that self-serving racist belief by treating different outcomes (such as IQ tests) as though they are direct evidence of differences in innate abilities.

What makes this interpretation the most plausible explanation for why many white racists accept this idea about Asians is that it is the only plausible motive for why they go to such dishonest lengths to distort the science in order to treat IQ tests as measures of innate intelligence. It is b/c this false equivalence is so irrational and anti-scientific that there very unlikely to be anyone who believes in innate racial differences in intelligence who arrived at that position honestly, without a self-serving ideological motive. IOW, in addition to "belief in X" being highly compatible if not supportive of "ideology Y", I think it is also true that "belief in X" is unlikely unless one is motivated to justify "ideology Y".
 
Race by IQ is the issue that actually woke me up to both Sketpcism and PC over reach.

About a decade ago, maybe two decades ago now (?) I clearly remember when the "Bell Curve" came out. I was an undergraduate psychology student. We had a prof who presented this book to us and told us it was bunk, and that there are no racial differences in intelligence. He didn't discuss in what way the studies the book was based on were flawed, etc. I was the only student in the class with the gall to ask him what the actual errors were, and how the research went wrong. He refused to go through it either in class or privately. I remain convinced to this day that he never read it. When I read through it I noticed a lot of what the prof had said the book was saying, the book wasn't actually saying, and I also found flaws in the research the book pointed to and managed to debunk it for myself. I don't remember the particular data or analysis but I came out convinced that there are no differences in IQ between races found.

I could have just accepted that from the get go, and gone with the sheep. But this opened by eyes to free thinking. Just because somebody tells you something you want to hear, doesn't mean its true. We should know why it is so, why those who say things we dislike are wrong, etc. I became more of an active voice about my atheism at this time and started reading up on logic and logical fallacies. This sparked a free thinking side of me that I am not sure would have been sparked otherwise. Other side bad, so other wise wrong and other side has no points I need address, is bad and dangerous thinking.
 
Somehow I don't think that white supremacists view intelligence as a necessary virtue of the master race. Ask this same white supremacist if he thinks Asians are more capable of being smart than white people are capable of, and I wager you will get a little pulling back on that.

Could you clarify what you mean by this? Are you suggesting that b/c white supremacists are so stupid, they wouldn't want to view intelligence as a virtue and a characteristic of the race that should dominate?

I bet you dollars to donuts that most white supremacists believe they are not only more intelligent than most of the non-whites around them, but more intelligent than most whites. Most people have never taken an IQ test and thus are free to imaging their IQ score is anything that want. Their own performance in school can be easily dismissed using their general animosity towards the public education system. Also, plenty of white supremacists have high IQ scores, did very well in schools, and have actually high intelligence. Many are corporate CEOs, "News" analysts, editors, media moguls, governors, senators, congressmen, SCOTUS judges, and even Presidents.

Just b/c white supremacy (and belief that IQ scores reflect innate intelligence) is an unscientific idea that cannot be supported with sound intellectual argument, does not mean that one must lack intellect to hold those beliefs. This is similar to belief in similarly unscientific notions like God and even creationism. Those believers are not notably lacking in intellect and many are quite smart. The beliefs merely require that one want to believe these things b/c it serves some purpose to do so. People can and often do shut down and repress their own intellect in order to maintain preferred beliefs.

In addition, I suspect there are even white supremacists who do view intelligence as a virtue of the master race, and yet accept they they personally are not particularly intelligent. That is an attraction of group identity politics that you can gain status by merely belonging to a group despite your own personal lack of merit. In fact, if you clearly do lack your own merits, then you'd be especially motivated to adopt group identity politics b/c it shifts the focus away from individuals and thus you as a person, and toward groups and how your group is better than another. It is highly analogous to the tribalism of spectator sports where a bunch of people who completely suck at something root for their team to win and react and celebrate as thought they actually accomplished something and that people who root for the other team losers b/c their team lost.
 
But not for long.
If everyone they hate were to die off, they'd find justificafion to divide and hate further.
Then when the white fauxpremacists were gone, and those who stank of soap, and those who spelled 'supremacists' the same way three times in a row, the True Spermaschists would die out from population depression.

It's well established that genetic diversity is a key to evading extinction.
Their lack of diversity as a group all but guarantees their eventual demise... the day a few codons of sickle cells becomes the difference between contracting the New Disease or not...
This is starting to happen to the Jews. A long tradition of only marrying within their own has narrowed their genetic diversity to the point where Jews have a significantly higher risk of getting certain forms of cancer (Brest cancer is huge in their population, for example - way out of normal ranges for all other demographic groups).

I learned about this from a doctor... I asked why he thought Long Island has so much more cancer than the rest of the country. He said "because of the demographics"...
"there is a high concentration of Jews on Long Island".

I'm not criticizing... This is simply a medical fact arising from a lack of genetic diversity.

So the portrayal of southern whites as inbred is projection by inbred Hollywood Jews?

did I say "inbred"? I didn't mean as in procreation within a family... just their own cultural group ("marry a nice jewish girl" - not one single jewish boy has not heard that from their parents)... like white supremacists. But to Elixr's point, maybe the Jews are worse off than them in that regard.
 
Race by IQ is the issue that actually woke me up to both Sketpcism and PC over reach.

About a decade ago, maybe two decades ago now (?) I clearly remember when the "Bell Curve" came out. I was an undergraduate psychology student. We had a prof who presented this book to us and told us it was bunk, and that there are no racial differences in intelligence. He didn't discuss in what way the studies the book was based on were flawed, etc. I was the only student in the class with the gall to ask him what the actual errors were, and how the research went wrong. He refused to go through it either in class or privately. I remain convinced to this day that he never read it. When I read through it I noticed a lot of what the prof had said the book was saying, the book wasn't actually saying, and I also found flaws in the research the book pointed to and managed to debunk it for myself. I don't remember the particular data or analysis but I came out convinced that there are no differences in IQ between races found.

I could have just accepted that from the get go, and gone with the sheep. But this opened by eyes to free thinking. Just because somebody tells you something you want to hear, doesn't mean its true. We should know why it is so, why those who say things we dislike are wrong, etc. I became more of an active voice about my atheism at this time and started reading up on logic and logical fallacies. This sparked a free thinking side of me that I am not sure would have been sparked otherwise. Other side bad, so other wise wrong and other side has no points I need address, is bad and dangerous thinking.

I agree with all of that. My view of the theory of innate differences in actual intelligence is based upon decades of professional familiarity with the relevant literature, plus just personal intellectual interest in evaluating the claim b/c it is so politically and socially impactful with voices of unreason across the spectrum.

I agree that many of the attacks on "The Bell Curve", including much of what Gould had to say, were invalid, such as claims that IQ tests do not measure anything meaningful. They do, they measure how people perform on a test that requires several types of information processing that are relevant to learning and problem solving in many areas. But they don't measure innate differences in basic information processing. One must eliminate countless other known influences not only on cognitive development, but upon any single instance of cognitive performance where there is no reason to think people are even attempting to fully apply the abilities they have developed. I have yet to encounter a single study showing racial group differences were all such other known influences have been controlled for (not surprising, b/c it would be virtually impossible to do so).

I accept the scientific consensus on the issue, conveyed by the APA task force paper authored by leaders of the feild in cognitive performance. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence:_Knowns_and_Unknowns
[/URL] and largely echoed in the statement issued by 52 other researchers in the field. Both were published in response to the misinformation being launched across the political spectrum in reaction to The Bell Curve. They made clear that while IQ tests do measure something useful, they are impacted by many factors outside of innate ability, and the evidence about genes and IQ differences between individuals has no implications for the source of group level differences.

And while that was 25 years ago, there has been virtually no new evidence that speaks to the particular question of the source of group differences, which is not surprising since the lack of evidence either way is due to virtually impossible to overcome practical limitations in being able to control other factors.

My view of those who espouse claims of innate differences in intelligence between racial groups as being motivated by dogmatic racism is also based upon the evidence and logical evaluation for the plausible reasons why a person would espouse a claim that has no rational scientific basis and persist when their pseudo-evidence has been clearly invalidated.

Note, that as I have already said, claiming racial group differences on IQ tests does not require racist motives because that claim has no logical implications for innate differences in intelligence. But precisely for the same reason, those who use IQ test differences to conclude innate differences are clearly motivated by unscientific racist dogma.

Ironically, many on the left also wrongly equate race differences on IQ test with claims of innate differences. But since they are ideologically motivated to reject such differences, even if real, their conflation leads them to reject even the empirical fact of race differences in IQ tests or to engage in unscientific dismissal of IQ tests as completely meaningless and not even capturing anything about one's intellectual performance. Those types of anti-science arguments were what partially lead the researchers of the linked papers to feel the need to set the record straight about IQ tests and what the do and do not tell us.
 
It really is an area of study frought with bias and similar pitfalls. I think it may be impossible to conduct such research with an open and objective mind. Proper methodology and controls are needed here more than in maybe any other field of study. Racist, or anti-racist, each researcher is going to have a result they are hoping to find.
 
There are racial differences in IQ test scores. Where the scientific racists go off of the rails is in attributing it to genetic differences between the races. The idea of races is based on purely superficial differences that represent relatively small adaptions to localized conditions over some thousands of years. There is no reason to believe that these minor adaptations could have any effect on the capacity of humans to learn, for example.

Mainly what we are seeing in the IQ test differences are small differences due to the culture that the so-called "races" lived in for decades and centuries. IQ tests are designed to amplify these small differences. That is what they do. But the spread in the IQs within the groups are much broader than the spreads between the so-called races, leaving any meaningful generalization about IQ scores telling us anything about an individual void.

This means that raising children in a culture like ours where education is valued, all other considerations being equal, should over some generations, iron out the differences in IQ. What a negative culture did, a positive culture can make right. The kicker in that statement is "all other considerations being equal." Our culture has excelled in the past at maintaining radically different conditions to prevent any leveling of this sort.

This is an extremely divisive subject on which nearly everyone is wrong about it on purpose. One side doesn't want to admit that there are any differences and the other doesn't want to admit that this was something that they might have gained anything from today, obligating them to participate in the solution.

That there are differences is a fact and that it was done over a long period of time shouldn't be controversial. We can solve it simply by agreeing that there is a collective interest in educating everyone to the greatest extent possible. That the greatest waste that we have endured as a nation is in not doing this in the past, wasting untold amounts of human potential.
 
Ocerrepresentation in Silicon Valley is often a symptom of an entirely different problem which would generate an entire derail of discussion that isn't appropriate to the thread, namely of outsourcing hiring to Asia because it's cheaper to import a foreign national to write your code than it is to source a domestic worker. LP can go on and on, at length about H1B work visas and how they are used to skirt requirements to seek domestic talent in Silicon Valley. In this scenario, Asia just happens to represent the biggest pool if foreign countries with low standards of living and decent education.

That's part of it. Add:

India has a large number of people who already speak English from birth. That makes them more desirable for bringing in.

China has the traditional focus on education that is why they are overrepresented in universities and high skill jobs.
 
Race by IQ is the issue that actually woke me up to both Sketpcism and PC over reach.

About a decade ago, maybe two decades ago now (?) I clearly remember when the "Bell Curve" came out. I was an undergraduate psychology student. We had a prof who presented this book to us and told us it was bunk, and that there are no racial differences in intelligence. He didn't discuss in what way the studies the book was based on were flawed, etc. I was the only student in the class with the gall to ask him what the actual errors were, and how the research went wrong. He refused to go through it either in class or privately. I remain convinced to this day that he never read it. When I read through it I noticed a lot of what the prof had said the book was saying, the book wasn't actually saying, and I also found flaws in the research the book pointed to and managed to debunk it for myself. I don't remember the particular data or analysis but I came out convinced that there are no differences in IQ between races found.

Part of the problem is that there are actual IQ differences that aren't actually racial. Off the top of my head:

1) As already pointed out, the focus on education amongst the Chinese. This doesn't actually mean a higher IQ but we currently have no way of sorting out innate differences from how well someone has applied themselves.

2) Nutrition. A lot of people in poor parts of the world have their development stunted. They will legitimately test out as having a lower IQ, but again it's not racial. (I remember reading about an experiment. Mexico?, they took a village still living as it did in pre-colonial times. For 10 years they provided multi-vitamins to half the kids. The difference was tremendous.)

3) Disease. Chronic malaria will permanently lower your IQ. Perhaps other diseases will also impair development but most tropical diseases aren't well studied.

4) There is a racial pattern to the slums of the inner cities. Few who grow up in those conditions will develop their mind to it's potential.

5) Drugs--once again, something that will tend to keep people from developing to their potential.

6) On the flip side--immigrants generally outperform. This is because the people that take the leap tend to be above average. (And note the corollary--areas with heavy emigration will be shitholes because the best and brightest left.)

Even if you see differences in intelligence it's hard to sort out environmental effects from genetic ones.
 
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