Immigration Issues

[steve_bank]

The issue o illegals goes back at least to the 30s. I watched an old 1940s movie about American and Mexican police working to bing down a human trafficking origination providing labor to American businesses.

The Mexican slur I grew up was wetbacks, swimming the Rio Grande. When I was in Hartford in the 70s there were places to go to pickup illegals for cheap illegal day labor.

For decades Ca state and local governments have openly welcomed illegals. The mess today is the direct result of Ca state policies. The,left goes after Trump for bending and skirting rules for teh republican agenda, the left also bends and skirts the rules for its agenda.

Hiring illegals is illegal. The Ca policy has created a large underclass without official rights and the ability to address grievances. As it has always been, business wants cheap labor and I am sure abuses occur.

Ca has usurped the congressional authority to regulate immigration. Congress has compounded the problem by failing to adequately update immigration policy.

Given the percentages in Ca and elsewhere the idea of deporting a significant number is kind of stupid. It would affect the Ca and national economy. The democratic defacto position that this can go on indefinitely is equally stupid.

The city where Trump claimed illegals were eating pets had actually brought the immigrants in legally. They needed workers and recruited them. There are currently legal means to address worker need,.

Maybe Ca should withdraw from the nation and become an independent country.

The only practical solution is to first close then border to illegal immigration. Then begin a process of evaluation all legals who are working and grant resident status.

Criminals and undesirable get deported.

In Los Angeles, roughly 9% of residents are undocumented immigrants, with 11% of adults and 11% of the workforce being undocumented. This means that about 900,000 people in Los Angeles are undocumented, and nearly 1 in 5 Los Angeles children have at least one undocumented parent.

In California, undocumented immigrant can obtain a driver's license. This is due to the passage of Assembly Bill 60 (AB 60) in 2013. The AB 60 license allows individuals to drive and be used for identification purposes within the state. However, it is important to note that the AB 60 license is not a federal ID and cannot be used for purposes such as entering federal buildings or boarding airplanes.

Regarding voting, undocumented immigrants in California cannot vote in state-wide or federal elections. Voting in a federal election while being a noncitizen is illegal and can lead to penalties including fines, imprisonment, deportation, and revocation of legal status.
Some California municipalities may allow noncitizens to vote in certain local elections, such as for school boards. This is a developing issue, and there are debates regarding the granting of limited voting power to noncitizens in some areas.

 

[TV and credit cards]

California has acted during forty years of inaction on the federal level, showing some compassion for those who stayed. Then when the US Congress finally prepares a partial solution, Trump sabotages it for the sake of him being able to make the spectacle we see today. This could just as easily have been set off in any number of large cities but I would venture to guess LA was handpicked by Ringmaster Trump. Make no mistake, this is first and foremost the Trump Karnevil. Come on and see the show.

 

[zorq]

So you think immigration has been a big issue ever since the 1930's? You mean a little bit after the 1924 Immigration Act set up stringent and bizarre quotas based partially on ideas propagated by American Eugenics enthusiasts? You're telling me that immigration prohibition has a temporal correlation (and identifiable causation) to public awareness of immigration problems? Have we ever seen anything else like this happen in history? Maybe some other type of prohibition in the 1920s and 30s?

Yes. Alcohol was not a big issue until the 18th amendment prohibited it. And ever since 21st repealed it, it's not a big issue again.

Maybe you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Unlimited immigration policies made America a great nation. Immigration prohibition policies created a black market for labor which has been exploited by the powerful corrupt and criminal alike. Like alcohol and drug prohibition.

The biggest issue with immigration might be that xenophobes and racists (like religious Teetotalers) want to prohibit it for their own personally biased reasons. Sure, immigration (like alcohol) can pose some challenges, but I don't think I have ever seen an analysis confirm that the benefits of tightly regulated immigration policies outweigh the benefits of relaxed policies.

 

[TomC]

Hiring illegals is illegal.

This is the problem that keeps getting swept under the rug.
If employers had concerns about the consequences of criminal actions, like hiring undocumented workers, they'd start screaming for a legal process that supplies the workers that they need. But nobody important wants to address that glaring issue, Republicans or Democrats or whoever.

It's easier to just keep the donors happy by supplying cheap labor with no rights.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Yup, decades of fear-mongering around immigration have made it nearly impossible to create policies where regulation would actually benefit employers. Today, any business pushing for reform risks being branded ‘pro-illegal immigration,’ even if all they want is a legal workforce.

On top of that, many employers aren’t interested in long-term solutions at all. They’d rather lobby for tax breaks and chase short-term profits, with no incentive or intention to use those benefits to raise wages or attract more domestic workers.

Let’s be honest: American culture doesn't just allow this shit, it is this shit.

 

[ZiprHead]

As the agents moved to pull Lander away and take the immigrant into custody, the comptroller shouted, “Show me your warrant, show me your badge.”

Comptroller Brad Lander arrested at ICE court hearing | amNewYork

City Comptroller Brad Lander was arrested and accosted by masked federal agents at immigration court in Lower Manhattan.

www.amny.com

 

[TSwizzle]

The USA is such as weird place now. I was never content in my UK homeland, I always wanted to leave. I really wanted to go to someplace like Spain, Portugal, Italy or maybe the USA. Growing up in the UK the USA always seemed a great place because most of the TV programs and movies presented a positive image, Beverly Hills 90210, Cheers, Beverly Hills Cop etc. Even the crime movies made it exciting, Dirty Harry, The Streets of San Francisco. Anyway, as a youngish IT professional in the early 90s I got an opportunity to work in Los Angeles and came here on an H1B and have been a naturalized US citizen for quite a while. But my view of the USA is no longer the starry eyed immigrant that sees a land of opportunity. I am very skeptical of the way the USA is socially structured. It seems to me that the USA consists of a top tier of people, an exclusive social club that runs the USA as its own private club. Membership is strictly controlled as is the opportunity for plebs to join. I see a deliberate tier system where the illegals are kept at the bottom of the totem pole, crushed beneath a dysfunctional immigration system that will keep them and their children cleaning the toilets etc while the elites get to lord over them. I have done well coming to the USA but I have been lucky in regards to timing. I would not come to the USA now. The USA may still seem attractive to developing countries or countries mired in strife but the USA does not offer much in the way of opportunity. Something is sick within its society.

 

[Gospel]

I hear you, TSwizzle. I learned quickly what side of the line I was on. That “land of opportunity” myth looks great on TV, but when you grow up Black in America, you realize the rules are different, and the playing field was tilted long before I ever set foot on it.

One example: I’ve worked at the same company for 25 years, taken on countless responsibilities, and never received a title change or a raise to reflect that. Meanwhile, two white women were hired after me, and after completing a single task, they were promoted into corporate positions. Anecdotal? Maybe. But far from rare, stories like mine happen every day. And to this day, those same women still rely on me for the majority of their work.

At one point, management actually demoted me to warehouse work, claiming my role wasn’t essential. That is, until those same women (not in protest, but in practicality) made it clear I was a key part of their operations. Management reluctantly asked me to return to my previous duties.

What you’re describing, the hierarchy, the gatekeeping, the illusion of mobility, isn’t new. It’s just more visible now. America has always had tiers. But more people are waking up to the fact that this country doesn’t run on merit, it runs on carefully managed access and the preservation of privilege for those deemed part of the in-group. Or as I put it: this system protects those tied to the “right kind” of blood that built the empire. The rest of us? We were always expected to serve beneath it.

Your story matters because it shows that even those who come here legally, with skills and ambition, still hit the wall, that moment when you realize this place isn’t broken. It’s working exactly as intended. Some of us never had the chance to believe in the American Dream. We were born under a ceiling that started pressing down before we even learned how to speak.

Even someone like Jay-Z, who went from selling drugs to becoming a billionaire, still hits structural limits. He can buy into a franchise, but he’ll never own the league. He can own his masters, but the platforms and distribution networks still belong to someone else. That’s the difference between symbolic success and systemic control.

And for anyone wondering why I’m still at this company, it’s simple. I had to work ten times as hard in the beginning just to get where I am, and I’m not about to start all over again with a new group of white folks who’d rather overlook that work than recognize it.

And just to say it preemptively , I agree with anyone who points out that classism plays a major role. But to believe racism isn’t also a factor? That’s delusional, in my opinion.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The USA is such as weird place now. I was never content in my UK homeland, I always wanted to leave. I really wanted to go to someplace like Spain, Portugal, Italy or maybe the USA. Growing up in the UK the USA always seemed a great place because most of the TV programs and movies presented a positive image, Beverly Hills 90210, Cheers, Beverly Hills Cop etc. Even the crime movies made it exciting, Dirty Harry, The Streets of San Francisco. Anyway, as a youngish IT professional in the early 90s I got an opportunity to work in Los Angeles and came here on an H1B and have been a naturalized US citizen for quite a while. But my view of the USA is no longer the starry eyed immigrant that sees a land of opportunity. I am very skeptical of the way the USA is socially structured. It seems to me that the USA consists of a top tier of people, an exclusive social club that runs the USA as its own private club. Membership is strictly controlled as is the opportunity for plebs to join. I see a deliberate tier system where the illegals are kept at the bottom of the totem pole, crushed beneath a dysfunctional immigration system that will keep them and their children cleaning the toilets etc while the elites get to lord over them. I have done well coming to the USA but I have been lucky in regards to timing. I would not come to the USA now. The USA may still seem attractive to developing countries or countries mired in strife but the USA does not offer much in the way of opportunity. Something is sick within its society.

Okay. But where would you rather live? There are problems in every country…

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The biggest problem with illegal immigration is that there isn't a huge problem with illegal immigration. People are angry that their industries they worked for left. Undocumented workers didn't do that. Undocumented workers aren't replacing many American workers. They are doing the hard and dirty jobs. They are filling a need of employment in this country. And the cost? It hasn't even been demonstrated that illegal immigration is a net loss for America's economy.

So what are we really complaining about?

 

[TSwizzle]

What you’re describing, the hierarchy, the gatekeeping, the illusion of mobility, isn’t new. It’s just more visible now. America has always had tiers. But more people are waking up to the fact that this country doesn’t run on merit, it runs on carefully managed access and the preservation of privilege for those deemed part of the in-group. Or as I put it: this system protects those tied to the “right kind” of blood that built the empire. The rest of us? We were always expected to serve beneath it.

Your story matters because it shows that even those who come here legally, with skills and ambition, still hit the wall, that moment when you realize this place isn’t broken. It’s working exactly as intended. Some of us never had the chance to believe in the American Dream. We were born under a ceiling that started pressing down before we even learned how to speak.

It's hard to put a finger on it but you have said it better than I did. This is the stuff of conspiracy theory but the USA does seem to be set up the way you described and for the reasons you state.

 

[TSwizzle]

The USA is such as weird place now. I was never content in my UK homeland, I always wanted to leave. I really wanted to go to someplace like Spain, Portugal, Italy or maybe the USA. Growing up in the UK the USA always seemed a great place because most of the TV programs and movies presented a positive image, Beverly Hills 90210, Cheers, Beverly Hills Cop etc. Even the crime movies made it exciting, Dirty Harry, The Streets of San Francisco. Anyway, as a youngish IT professional in the early 90s I got an opportunity to work in Los Angeles and came here on an H1B and have been a naturalized US citizen for quite a while. But my view of the USA is no longer the starry eyed immigrant that sees a land of opportunity. I am very skeptical of the way the USA is socially structured. It seems to me that the USA consists of a top tier of people, an exclusive social club that runs the USA as its own private club. Membership is strictly controlled as is the opportunity for plebs to join. I see a deliberate tier system where the illegals are kept at the bottom of the totem pole, crushed beneath a dysfunctional immigration system that will keep them and their children cleaning the toilets etc while the elites get to lord over them. I have done well coming to the USA but I have been lucky in regards to timing. I would not come to the USA now. The USA may still seem attractive to developing countries or countries mired in strife but the USA does not offer much in the way of opportunity. Something is sick within its society.

Okay. But where would you rather live? There are problems in every country…

Yes, of course and the USA is not all bad. It's a bit of a basket case these past ten years or so. But in regards to immigration, I really do think that the overlords are fine with the illegals being exactly where they are.

 

[Gospel]

What you’re describing, the hierarchy, the gatekeeping, the illusion of mobility, isn’t new. It’s just more visible now. America has always had tiers. But more people are waking up to the fact that this country doesn’t run on merit, it runs on carefully managed access and the preservation of privilege for those deemed part of the in-group. Or as I put it: this system protects those tied to the “right kind” of blood that built the empire. The rest of us? We were always expected to serve beneath it.

Your story matters because it shows that even those who come here legally, with skills and ambition, still hit the wall, that moment when you realize this place isn’t broken. It’s working exactly as intended. Some of us never had the chance to believe in the American Dream. We were born under a ceiling that started pressing down before we even learned how to speak.

It's hard to put a finger on it but you have said it better than I did. This is the stuff of conspiracy theory but the USA does seem to be set up the way you described and for the reasons you state.

I agree , I can be intense with my convictions. I speak from the heart and from personal experience, but I’m always open to being wrong. After all, the only way anyone can be corrected is by sharing their perspective honestly and being willing to listen in return.

 

[scombrid]

It’s working exactly as intended. That’s all there is to it really.

 

[ZiprHead]

The USA is such as weird place now. I was never content in my UK homeland, I always wanted to leave. I really wanted to go to someplace like Spain, Portugal, Italy or maybe the USA. Growing up in the UK the USA always seemed a great place because most of the TV programs and movies presented a positive image, Beverly Hills 90210, Cheers, Beverly Hills Cop etc. Even the crime movies made it exciting, Dirty Harry, The Streets of San Francisco. Anyway, as a youngish IT professional in the early 90s I got an opportunity to work in Los Angeles and came here on an H1B and have been a naturalized US citizen for quite a while. But my view of the USA is no longer the starry eyed immigrant that sees a land of opportunity. I am very skeptical of the way the USA is socially structured. It seems to me that the USA consists of a top tier of people, an exclusive social club that runs the USA as its own private club. Membership is strictly controlled as is the opportunity for plebs to join. I see a deliberate tier system where the illegals are kept at the bottom of the totem pole, crushed beneath a dysfunctional immigration system that will keep them and their children cleaning the toilets etc while the elites get to lord over them. I have done well coming to the USA but I have been lucky in regards to timing. I would not come to the USA now. The USA may still seem attractive to developing countries or countries mired in strife but the USA does not offer much in the way of opportunity. Something is sick within its society.

Okay. But where would you rather live? There are problems in every country…

Yes, of course and the USA is not all bad. It's a bit of a basket case these past ten years or so. But in regards to immigration, I really do think that the overlords are fine with the illegals being exactly where they are.

Wow! TSwizzle has an actual human side. Who knew?

 

[Gospel]

People are angry that their industries they worked for left. Undocumented workers didn't do that.

Exactly. It wasn’t undocumented workers, it was corporations outsourcing jobs to cut labor costs, maximize profits, and pad executive bonuses. There's nothing inherently wrong with being rich or cutting costs, and bonuses aren’t evil in themselves. But when profit becomes the priority at the expense of the very workers/consumers who make that profit possible, that’s the problem. When profit is put above the well-being of your fellow citizens, something’s broken. What’s the point of all this patriotic grandstanding, celebrating soldiers, cops, miners, oil riggers for putting everything on the line, if you won’t demand even a fraction of that same loyalty from billion-dollar corporations getting major tax cuts? You want a tax cut? Then show some fucking patriotism, bitch. These same people will argue that folks on welfare need to “get a job” or at least hold one, yet they champion tax cuts for corporations that outsource jobs and lay off workers. In the end, it’s the very people they screw over who are expected to carry the weight and foot the bill for their windfall.

 

[barbos]

Illegal immigration has been an issue since early 17th century.

 

[Patooka]

The USA is such as weird place now. I was never content in my UK homeland, I always wanted to leave. I really wanted to go to someplace like Spain, Portugal, Italy or maybe the USA. Growing up in the UK the USA always seemed a great place because most of the TV programs and movies presented a positive image, Beverly Hills 90210, Cheers, Beverly Hills Cop etc. Even the crime movies made it exciting, Dirty Harry, The Streets of San Francisco. Anyway, as a youngish IT professional in the early 90s I got an opportunity to work in Los Angeles and came here on an H1B and have been a naturalized US citizen for quite a while. But my view of the USA is no longer the starry eyed immigrant that sees a land of opportunity. I am very skeptical of the way the USA is socially structured. It seems to me that the USA consists of a top tier of people, an exclusive social club that runs the USA as its own private club. Membership is strictly controlled as is the opportunity for plebs to join. I see a deliberate tier system where the illegals are kept at the bottom of the totem pole, crushed beneath a dysfunctional immigration system that will keep them and their children cleaning the toilets etc while the elites get to lord over them. I have done well coming to the USA but I have been lucky in regards to timing. I would not come to the USA now. The USA may still seem attractive to developing countries or countries mired in strife but the USA does not offer much in the way of opportunity. Something is sick within its society.

Agreed. I'm pretty certain they let the wrong ones in. I think America let in entitled Karens in at coincidentally the same time your were let in.

Funny that...

Imagine the coincidence borders needed to be closed as a reaction to one receiving citizenship...

I can only laugh mind yo',

 

[Swammerdami]

It's interesting that the stereotype of England is of a very classist society, much like a caste system where status at birth determines your status throughout life; while the USA is called the land of opportunity where your birth class is almost irrelevant. And yet many studies show that the reality is OPPOSITE: Social and economic mobility is much greater in England than in the USA.

I hear you, TSwizzle. I learned quickly what side of the line I was on. That “land of opportunity” myth looks great on TV, but when you grow up Black in America, you realize the rules are different, and the playing field was tilted long before I ever set foot on it....

And just to say it preemptively , I agree with anyone who points out that classism plays a major role. But to believe racism isn’t also a factor? That’s delusional, in my opinion.

I wonder if any of those studies of mobility "controlled" for race, e.g. measuring mobility among only whites.

In any event Gospel's experience and that of many others makes a mockery of the notion that the USA is no longer a racist society, that systemic racism doesn't exist. People who make such assertions must themselves be racists to come to such a stupid and biased conclusion.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Hiring illegals is illegal.

If you dig deep enough, you'll find the government at the root of most problems.