Is a rainbow a physical object?

[fast]

Soooo,

When the three of us (my wife, my girlfriend, and I) look up unto the sky and point and share an experience that we call seeing a colorful rainbow, what we actually have up there before us is nothing more than a stimulus that interacts with our brains that individually produce the colors of a rainbow situated in each of our minds.

 

[untermensche]

Soooo,

When the three of us (my wife, my girlfriend, and I) look up unto the sky and point and share an experience that we call seeing a colorful rainbow, what we actually have up there before us is nothing more than a stimulus that interacts with our brains that individually produce the colors of a rainbow situated in each of our minds.

Any color is in the mind.

That is the only place colors exist.

If the rainbow is colors in the sky then the rainbow is in the mind.

It is in three minds that share a very similar genetic code.

Take away an observer and there is the earth and there is light but there is no color. There are no rainbows.

Rainbows are an observer phenomena not an observed phenomena.

 

[skepticalbip]

...

 

[untermensche]

...

 

[fast]

Soooo,

When the three of us (my wife, my girlfriend, and I) look up unto the sky and point and share an experience that we call seeing a colorful rainbow, what we actually have up there before us is nothing more than a stimulus that interacts with our brains that individually produce the colors of a rainbow situated in each of our minds.

Any color is in the mind.

That is the only place colors exist.

If the rainbow is colors in the sky then the rainbow is in the mind.

It is in three minds that share a very similar genetic code.

Take away an observer and there is the earth and there is light but there is no color. There are no rainbows.

Rainbows are an observer phenomena not an observed phenomena.

For consistency's sake, I'm thinking you should put the sky in the same bucket as you put earth and light. If rainbows are colors and colors are in the mind bucket, then saying rainbow is colors in the sky has a hiccup in its dance.

 

[fast]

...

 

[Copernicus]

I understand perfectly what you are saying, and I'm not disputing it. However, you dodged my question. You made no attempt to answer it, so I'll attempt to ask it again.

Can you tell me the difference between an object that exists in the mind and one that does not? Rainbows are not hallucinations. They are perceptual illusions that are created by physical atmospheric conditions. Why would you think that an object such as a rock or tree is not also a perceptual illusion?

Objects do not exist in the mind.

Rainbows are not hallucinations.

They are not perceptual illusions.

Nonsense. Rainbows are illusions in the sense that they appear to occupy a physical location. They are just as illusory as the perception that the sky is blue.

They are something the brain creates in response to stimuli.

They exist in minds and nowhere else.

A stimulus that has nothing to do with color exists in the world.

A brain transforms that stimulus that is not color into a color.

Color does not exist until the first brain that can create a color creates one.

I'm not going to argue with you on everything you get wrong, because that really is like believing that one can approach and arrive at the end of a rainbow. You still haven't answered the question of whether concrete objects are not also "in the mind". They have different physical properties than rainbows, but they also have visual properties that include color, which you admit is a mental experience. We perceive tangible physical objects in the same way that we perceive intangible ones, such as rainbows. Tangible objects are also constructed by the mind in the same way that rainbows are--in response to physical stimuli. Touch is a different sense than vision, but it is still a sensory experience. Anyway, you clearly don't want to engage in a serious discussion on this issue, so you can go back to droning on endlessly about color being a mental construct.

 

[untermensche]

Soooo,

When the three of us (my wife, my girlfriend, and I) look up unto the sky and point and share an experience that we call seeing a colorful rainbow, what we actually have up there before us is nothing more than a stimulus that interacts with our brains that individually produce the colors of a rainbow situated in each of our minds.

Any color is in the mind.

That is the only place colors exist.

If the rainbow is colors in the sky then the rainbow is in the mind.

It is in three minds that share a very similar genetic code.

Take away an observer and there is the earth and there is light but there is no color. There are no rainbows.

Rainbows are an observer phenomena not an observed phenomena.

For consistency's sake, I'm thinking you should put the sky in the same bucket as you put earth and light. If rainbows are colors and colors are in the mind bucket, then saying rainbow is colors in the sky has a hiccup in its dance.

A sky is something observed.

Air and water and light exist without an observer.

Where do you think colors exist?

How do you suppose a color in the world forced evolving brains to produce it?

Colors are random contingencies of the mind.

They have no real world correlate. They have an association, the mechanism to create the color is triggered by something in the world. That something is not a color or colored. It is light.

This stuff should be taught in first grade.

People do seem to have a real hard time understanding what a color actually is.

Many people confuse a color, a mental experience, with the stimulus that triggered it's creation which is not a color or colored.

 

[untermensche]

Objects do not exist in the mind.

Rainbows are not hallucinations.

They are not perceptual illusions.

Nonsense. Rainbows are illusions in the sense that they appear to occupy a physical location. They are just as illusory as the perception that the sky is blue.

What is a color?

You are so lost I have to go back to basics.

What is the difference between a color and a stimulus to produce a color?

Color is not a property of objects or of light.

It is a property of minds.

The only "place" colors exist is in the mind, as something experienced.

Take away the observer and no colors exist.

No rainbows exist in the world. They all exist in the minds of observers.

But a rock exists even without an observer.

 

[fromderinside]

You were caught by one of our traffic cameras. A speeding ticket has been issued and will be mailed to your home. Sorry about the untermensche potholes, but we do not pay for damaged axles.

Finally. A town that uses technology fairly. Got as ticket in Dalton Ga back in ought-73 where there light was horizontal and with light shades and hues designed to catch those with color issues. That, and colors were presented backwards. Glad to pay. Potholes are not forgivable though. Gotta root them out wherever they exist.

 

[fromderinside]

Isn't it amazing that the same illusion is produced by photons of the same energy and spectra are produced by prismatic conditions? Oh, wait. You say color is an illusion only produced in one's 'mind'. Sorry this comment isn't for you so don't process it with your 'mind'. Can't do it can you.

Case proved.

 

[untermensche]

Isn't it amazing that the same illusion is produced by photons of the same energy and spectra are produced by prismatic conditions? Oh, wait. You say color is an illusion only produced in one's 'mind'. Sorry this comment isn't for you so don't process it with your 'mind'. Can't do it can you.

Case proved.

Color is not an illusion to the subjective mind.

It is something the subjective mind experiences.

It is nothing else.

That we talk about color is strong evidence we have similar subjective minds.

 

[untermensche]

Some people have a problem with the difference between a stimulus which causes the brain to create something new and a stimulus to do a specific thing.

Light energy of a certain wavelength will stimulate cells in the eye. That is all the energy can do in terms of vision. Stimulate cells.

These cells now immediately transform that light energy into information for cellular communication. How the cells communicate this information is not known.

Then this information from cells is converted again into something the mind experiences, by the brain. How the brain does this is completely unknown.

What you experience as color has undergone at least two transformations before you experience it.

Color has an association with the stimulus but the stimulus cannot create a specific color or cause cells to produce a specific color.

All the light can do is stimulate cells.

That is not color in any way.

Color is ONLY something experienced.

If people don't understand this then their education has failed them.

 

[fromderinside]

Isn't it amazing that the same illusion is produced by photons of the same energy and spectra are produced by prismatic conditions? Oh, wait. You say color is an illusion only produced in one's 'mind'. Sorry this comment isn't for you so don't process it with your 'mind'. Can't do it can you.

Case proved.

That we talk about color is strong evidence we have similar subjective minds.

Uh, no. I'm a retired psychophysicist. You aren't an anything physicist, a social helper maybe, so whatever you use isn't what I use.

 

[steve_bank]

If I can't stand on it, pick it up, or kuck it it is not an object. Therefore by rational scientific reasoning a rainbow is not an object. It is an eternal perceptual illusion, a ghost with no reality. An illusion constructed by the mind.

 

[untermensche]

Isn't it amazing that the same illusion is produced by photons of the same energy and spectra are produced by prismatic conditions? Oh, wait. You say color is an illusion only produced in one's 'mind'. Sorry this comment isn't for you so don't process it with your 'mind'. Can't do it can you.

Case proved.

That we talk about color is strong evidence we have similar subjective minds.

Uh, no. I'm a retired psychophysicist. You aren't an anything physicist, a social helper maybe, so whatever you use isn't what I use.

Nope. I just use what I have a lot better.

You use your mind to claim you don't have one.

You are a laughing stock.

 

[Lion IRC]

@Copernicus

'Rainbow' means God, right? *wink*

Rainbow as a metaphor for spirit/soul.

That IS what you were going for with this thread was it not?

 

[untermensche]

@Copernicus

'Rainbow' means God, right? *wink*

Rainbow as a metaphor for spirit/soul.

That IS what you were going for with this thread was it not?

Off the wall!

Gods are invented creatures that do not exist.

A rainbow is something experienced.

 

[steve_bank]

@Copernicus

'Rainbow' means God, right? *wink*

Rainbow as a metaphor for spirit/soul.

That IS what you were going for with this thread was it not?

Is that you Cowardly Lion? We are off to see the Wizard(metaphor for a not so godlike god)...want to join us?

 

[Lion IRC]

No. Thanks anyway. But you and your friends have a nice trip.

Cowardly? Nope.
I'm gonna be Iron.
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