Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

[steve_bank]

Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat.

I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved?

Regards
DL

Also, if we don't sin Jesus died for nothing. So not sinning is also a sin.

Oh the irony!!!!!!

 

[Rhea]

I do have something I have yet to proof though.

I doubt you will know what I am talking about.

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Isn’t that a sign of sociopathy? That’s not normal.
Most people want to be **accepted** not revered.

Tribal leaders and shaman are the ones to be emulated by all of us so that we might become better than they are and depose them.

Definitely sociopathy.

Religiously speaking, we want to and are encouraged by scriptures to try to emulate whatever we think of as God.

So, religious = sociopath?

Seriously, though, it is NOT normal to want to be thought of as a god. Normal people do not think that.

Individually speaking, even you were born, instinctively speaking; thinking you were the fittest of your genetic line.

What? No.

In that sense, your ultimate raison d'être and dream, even if you can come up with some other analogy in religious terms; is you want to be known as the greatest at something, including God.

What? No.

Upon birth, your first thought was, I am.

So, no. It wasn’t.
It was, “tired.” Maybe “hunger”
Human developmental psychology knows that it takes some time to think “I am”.

Your second thought was, where is the Greatest I am so that I might be his friend, and depose him with better justice?

This is humor?

This is all of us seeking idols to emulate and depose the current icon in our chosen competitions.

No. This is not normal.

Have you given up your genetic birth rite to be the fittest and excel in some field?

That would disappoint your ancestors. They came from nature and nature demonstrably creates for the best possible end.

No. No, it does not.
It creates randomly.
It always has.
After it creates randomly, some live and some die. It turns out that the ones that lived benefitted from the randomness they were created in.
Although sometimes circumstances change, and a different random happens to be more advantageous next time.

I see it as a shame when someone stops competing to be the greatest at something.

I see it as normal and not dangerous.

 

[steve_bank]

I am so sad, no one understands me. I understand everything, nobody else knows anything.

It is such a burden being perfect.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Fiddling while Rome burns is an apt metaphor.

Russian and Chinese communism thought they woud create a just society in part bt attmpting to get rid of religion. Both enede up being some of the worse regimes in history.

It was impossible to eliminate, people had a need and want for it. In China it went underground. Chima softed on relgion somewhat and tries to regulate it to limit it being used as political resistance.

They presume to appoint the Dal Lama.

The attitude of Gnosic Christian has been shown to lead to opression, a presumption of ultamte correctness.

Diverse beliefs that stay within civil law on behavior is the best solution, however messy it gets. Separation of church and state.

Gnostic's apparent attitude demonstrably leads to centralized power.

I wold never advocate the elimination and suppression of religious beliefs. If anything it is enlightened self interest. Protection of diversity in beliefs protects me. The consequences are far worse, evidenced by Russian communism, Chinese communism, and North Korea. Cuba has softened on relgion and actually had a Papal visit..

Show where you found the lie of free thinking, pure Gnostic fare, led to oppression.

As to centralized power, to the top being bishops, Parfait in Cathar Gnostic Christianity, yes.

Not the top heavy and expensive, --- because of corruption, that needed inquisitions to sell.

I too like diversity in religions and other thinking systems.

It did not take much research to determine how satanic Christianity has become, from it's more humane beginnings.

All moral people today will condemn all genocidal gods to hell.

I love religions but hate the mainstream garbage.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat.

I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved?

Regards
DL

Also, if we don't sin Jesus died for nothing. So not sinning is also a sin.

Perhaps that is why Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

No sin by anyone would screw up the plan.

Either way, given that forgiveness is ours to grant and not Jesus, Jesus still died for nothing.

Suicide by cop is often that way.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Rhea

So, no. It wasn’t.
It was, “tired.” Maybe “hunger”
Human developmental psychology knows that it takes some time to think “I am”.


===========

Not to be a stickler, but.

Tired and hungry are adjectives. They only apply or mean anything to us as organisms if an (I) is applied.

As to your DNA instructing you to think you are the fittest is obvious in that nature demonstrably creates us for our best possible end and that is at the top of our hierarchical pyramids and not in the masses.

Even here, you and I seek to be seen as correct, and we compete for that position.

I do not lose.

I can let you use those adjectives, but linguistically you have to apply it to someone and historically, I am has been used.

Our thought process itself creates an I am or ultimate goal within us.

As the song says, Everybody wants to rule the world.

I have dropped to just one single area of expertise. Teaching, in my incompetent way, the ideologies and morals of what I can easily shown, is a superior to Christianity religion.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Fiddling while Rome burns is an apt metaphor.

Russian and Chinese communism thought they woud create a just society in part bt attmpting to get rid of religion. Both enede up being some of the worse regimes in history.

It was impossible to eliminate, people had a need and want for it. In China it went underground. Chima softed on relgion somewhat and tries to regulate it to limit it being used as political resistance.

They presume to appoint the Dal Lama.

The attitude of Gnosic Christian has been shown to lead to opression, a presumption of ultamte correctness.

Diverse beliefs that stay within civil law on behavior is the best solution, however messy it gets. Separation of church and state.

Gnostic's apparent attitude demonstrably leads to centralized power.

I wold never advocate the elimination and suppression of religious beliefs. If anything it is enlightened self interest. Protection of diversity in beliefs protects me. The consequences are far worse, evidenced by Russian communism, Chinese communism, and North Korea. Cuba has softened on relgion and actually had a Papal visit..

Show where you found the lie of free thinking, pure Gnostic fare, led to oppression.

As to centralized power, to the top being bishops, Parfait in Cathar Gnostic Christianity, yes.

Not the top heavy and expensive, --- because of corruption, that needed inquisitions to sell.

I too like diversity in religions and other thinking systems.

It did not take much research to determine how satanic Christianity has become, from it's more humane beginnings.

All moral people today will condemn all genocidal gods to hell.

I love religions but hate the mainstream garbage.

Regards
DL

To repeat my position on theforum, I see no fundmantal difference between any set of beiefs. All are created by the hunan capacity for imagination, dreaming, ad rationalization. A near unfbite capacity to deny relity as it is.

Across he spectrun all belief systems can be and are used for personal power and control. All human social orgnizations are fundemntaly the seame. Power politucs in various forms, corrurtion, and abuse of power.

There is Politesse who identifies as Pagan Christian. You ate Gnostic Christian, There are many .xxx-Christians.

I have no fundamental problem with any of them when they are nor abusing others.

You can lecture and posture and quote wisdom sound bytes till you are blue in the face as the saying goes, means little to me.

You are doing what Christians do, rationalizing your beliefs.

Ihave known a number of Jews in the USA. They are in the spectrum form liberal to conservative. Israel conservatives based ancient scripture are rationalixng aqy uisition of Palestinina land, a case of exreme abuse based on faith. Not all Jews in and out of Israel agee with it.

A spectrum exsts in a;ll human groups.Yiou stared off by distinguishing yourself from 'foolish Christians'. We are all foolish and fallible. Realizing that is what it meano 'grow up' and be part of humanity.

Are ypu in the movie or are you watching from afar? Someone told me enlightenment is realizing you are in the movie like everybody else.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

"I see no fundamental difference between any set of beliefs."

Then you are either stupid or a fool.

If you do not see supernatural belief as a huge difference, fool likely fits better.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Uhhh.. a stitch in time saves 9?

Early to be early to rise makes a man healthy,wealthy, and wise. Ben Fankllin.

Put off to tomorrow what you vould have dnoe yesterday. Me.

I got a million of them.

Read a Buddhist story.

Minks were walking a path and came upon a master sitting in front of a wooden limage of Buddha. They asked what must they do to find enlightenment. He said you must meditate in front of an image of Buddha.

The next day they found the master chopping up the image. Mystified they asked why.

He said, 'It is cold and I need firewood'.

Enlightenment is just another thought form, a metaphysical construct.

How is you metaphysical abstractions any better than others? In any objective, measurable, quantifiable way? You said at the start Gnostic Christianity represents fact based truth compared to oter beliefs,. What are those exactly, beyond metaphysical convoluted self referential circular arguent?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Nature is our creator and sustainer.

It is real.

The supernatural and metaphysical are not real and useless unless used as speculative nonsense.

You want the other kind of Christian. The brain dead literalists.

You do not want to chat with a Gnostic Christian, given you are not ready to take me out of the pigeon hole you try to put me into.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

steve_bank ---- What are those exactly,

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

A naturalist, ok but what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Whay does yiur belif mean in any material sense?

Can it help you build a bridge e or grow food?

Worship nature or worship a creator or the spirit of a volcano, all the same to me.

I came to be by a process of the universe. A cold fact. Nothing special. Whay anyone attches to it is mysthology and mysticism of various sorts.

You are still rationalizing beliefs like Christians do. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, we all rationalize our existence in one way or another. Just accept your rationalization is no better or worse than any else. It will alleviate a lot of stress.

I always felt good about accomplishing something useful as an engineer contributing in my small way to the greater whole. Tht was enough for me.

Other than calling me a fool, what is your point?

In the interest of transparency and full dsiclosure I am at tines I am indeed foolish and ignorant. Anyone who claims to be above it all I an suspicious of and check to make sure I still have my wallet.

My experience tells me people who preach from on high about the flaws of others has never had themselves and their beliefs actually tested by reality.

Applying what you believe against the reality of living is the one and only test.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

A naturalist, ok but what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Whay does yiur belif mean in any material sense?

Can it help you build a bridge e or grow food?

Worship nature or worship a creator or the spirit of a volcano, all the same to me.

Worship???

You show how little of Gnostic Christianity you know. We am not idol worshiper.

We see god as good laws and rules to live by. That is a bar that we are always eager to move higher than whatever we think today.

I came to be by a process of the universe. A cold fact. Nothing special. Whay anyone attches to it is mysthology and mysticism of various sorts.

Yes. Quite stupid.

You are still rationalizing beliefs like Christians do.

Yes. My rational works while theirs fails. Try looking harder.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that, we all rationalize our existence in one way or another. Just accept your rationalization is no better or worse than any else. It will alleviate a lot of stress.

Without you giving a decent argument against what I put, I see my arguments as superior. So do you given that you want to persuade with garbage instead or arguments. Looser.

I always felt good about accomplishing something useful as an engineer contributing in my small way to the greater whole. Tht was enough for me.

Many settle for small. Losers.

Other than calling me a fool, what is your point?

In the interest of transparency and full dsiclosure I am at tines I am indeed foolish and ignorant. Anyone who claims to be above it all I an suspicious of and check to make sure I still have my wallet.

My experience tells me people who preach from on high about the flaws of others has never had themselves and their beliefs actually tested by reality.

I am here for that. What issue would you liker to test?

Applying what you believe against the reality of living is the one and only test.

You have my overall view of this Earth being the best possible Earth, because it is the only possible Earth.

IOWs, from my naturalist view, this here and now is the only possible heaven and hell as those are just our states of mind, which is all we can individually ever know, at any given point in time.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

I don't need a' 'heaven' . The idea is a useful metaphor.


Reality is what it is regardless of how we think about it.

There is insight.

Shakespeare, 'the fault is not in the stars, it is in us'. Stars referring to astrology.

Bossism as I see differs from Christian's in that they believe the problem is on your own mind, not outside agents.

I found Descartes and others useful in that what they had to say applied to what I did. A more modern philosopher is Popper on science.

I do not exist in a vacuum ad I am not all knowing, I rely on others. I am as fallible, ignorant, and foolish as anyone, I have my moments. Thankully few and far between. That s why I belive in tolerancxe and diversuty and rehect any mono thought system tat excludes aothers.

My real experience as an engineer over 30 years taught me that no body but nobody ever has all the answers all the time. It does not matter how much you know or how much experience you have.

To me anyone who thinks they have all the right answers is foolish, and potentially dangerous. Trump for example. Pathologically unable to see the other side.

Have your beliefs but acknowledge you may not have all the answers.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers and not idol worshipers.

I told you that god to us is rules and laws.

If one is not thinking of improving those to where all live in peace, then he has settled for garbage and an end to our evolution in thinking.

Extinction would be preferable to such mental stagnation.

I noted your Gnostic post and will see you there.

Regards
DL