Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

[steve_bank]

It is not for me to interfere in beliefs of others, but I tell those Christians they are fools. of course implying I am above 'fools'.

Same old, same old. We can all be a foll from time to time.

Out in the real world I would not call somebody a fool over beliefs. I see myself in gene al no better than anyone else. In Christian terms, we are all sinners. When you accept that one becomes part of the whole, not an ouside observer.

I dispute aspects of faith here because religion can be intrusive and can infringe on my rights if left unchecked.

I generally ascribe to freethought. When looking at issues avoid bias or constraint by -isms and -ologies .It can be looked at as a form of pragmatism. It of course can never be 100%, we are all biased in some way by conditioning stored in our brains.

I am atheist i that I reject all and any deities, but atheist is not my identity. I do not look at reality through 'atheism' as one with a specific thology or philosophy would.

For me the only thought and debate that has meaning and value is that which relates to survival of the individual and the species. Food, water, shelter for example.

All else across the philosophical and religious discourse is trivial and pointless. An escapefrom the realitynof ur finite exstence in the ecosystem.

Gnostic Christian, there are Jewish Christians, Methodists, Sunni Muslims all of it the same to me. Each group feels superior and unique in some way.

In our liveral western systems with free speech abd free association we are all free to pick what we like to believe in.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It is not for me to interfere in beliefs of others, but I tell those Christians they are fools. of course implying I am above 'fools'.

Same old, same old. We can all be a foll from time to time.

Out in the real world I would not call somebody a fool over beliefs. I see myself in gene al no better than anyone else. In Christian terms, we are all sinners. When you accept that one becomes part of the whole, not an ouside observer.

I dispute aspects of faith here because religion can be intrusive and can infringe on my rights if left unchecked.

I generally ascribe to freethought. When looking at issues avoid bias or constraint by -isms and -ologies .It can be looked at as a form of pragmatism. It of course can never be 100%, we are all biased in some way by conditioning stored in our brains.

I am atheist i that I reject all and any deities, but atheist is not my identity. I do not look at reality through 'atheism' as one with a specific thology or philosophy would.

For me the only thought and debate that has meaning and value is that which relates to survival of the individual and the species. Food, water, shelter for example.

All else across the philosophical and religious discourse is trivial and pointless. An escapefrom the realitynof ur finite exstence in the ecosystem.

Gnostic Christian, there are Jewish Christians, Methodists, Sunni Muslims all of it the same to me. Each group feels superior and unique in some way.

In our liveral western systems with free speech abd free association we are all free to pick what we like to believe in.

I do not see the harm the god believers do to women and gays as trivial.

You are correct in that people choose that vile satanic Christian god to follow.

They call evil good and that is why I try to bring decent morals to their poor beliefs.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

It is not for me to interfere in beliefs of others, but I tell those Christians they are fools. of course implying I am above 'fools'.

Same old, same old. We can all be a foll from time to time.

Out in the real world I would not call somebody a fool over beliefs. I see myself in gene al no better than anyone else. In Christian terms, we are all sinners. When you accept that one becomes part of the whole, not an ouside observer.

I dispute aspects of faith here because religion can be intrusive and can infringe on my rights if left unchecked.

I generally ascribe to freethought. When looking at issues avoid bias or constraint by -isms and -ologies .It can be looked at as a form of pragmatism. It of course can never be 100%, we are all biased in some way by conditioning stored in our brains.

I am atheist i that I reject all and any deities, but atheist is not my identity. I do not look at reality through 'atheism' as one with a specific thology or philosophy would.

For me the only thought and debate that has meaning and value is that which relates to survival of the individual and the species. Food, water, shelter for example.

All else across the philosophical and religious discourse is trivial and pointless. An escapefrom the realitynof ur finite exstence in the ecosystem.

Gnostic Christian, there are Jewish Christians, Methodists, Sunni Muslims all of it the same to me. Each group feels superior and unique in some way.

In our liveral western systems with free speech abd free association we are all free to pick what we like to believe in.

I do not see the harm the god believers do to women and gays as trivial.

You are correct in that people choose that vile satanic Christian god to follow.

They call evil good and that is why I try to bring decent morals to their poor beliefs.

Regards
DL

A gnarly Gnostic, you don't see that everyday.

Chis tans given all the negatives for us atheists, are generally fundamentally happy people form my experience. That is really what beliefs are about. Sleeping well without worry and conflict.

Freemasons have secret rituals and handshakes. They give themselves titles. I am sure it makes them feel good. That is really what beliefs are all about, idenity, ,connubity amn most of all just plan feeling good.

From Descartes , " Apply yourself to that which can be solved, leave the rest to the astrologers". Meaning leave the woo and theology to the theologians and astrologers, apply yourself to something useful, my life mantra as an engineer. Intyersting as he was educated by Jesuits. Debting belifs based on an histical figure wh0 may b not have catualy es xisted and if he did left little in the way teachings as comared to say Buddha or Confucius is fine to pass the time, but is rather pointless. Up there with how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

You sound like some of the crazier Evangelicals on TV and radio ranting about evil non believers.

Something I take as a fundamental Christian principle, anger and hostility is more about the negative affect on yourself rather than on those you direct your anger and a hatred to. In modern psychology, you have 'ii sues' and take it it out on imaginary enemies. Mentally unhealthy.

Malice towards none.

Fill in the blanks. Happiness is ____.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It is not for me to interfere in beliefs of others, but I tell those Christians they are fools. of course implying I am above 'fools'.

Same old, same old. We can all be a foll from time to time.

Out in the real world I would not call somebody a fool over beliefs. I see myself in gene al no better than anyone else. In Christian terms, we are all sinners. When you accept that one becomes part of the whole, not an ouside observer.

I dispute aspects of faith here because religion can be intrusive and can infringe on my rights if left unchecked.

I generally ascribe to freethought. When looking at issues avoid bias or constraint by -isms and -ologies .It can be looked at as a form of pragmatism. It of course can never be 100%, we are all biased in some way by conditioning stored in our brains.

I am atheist i that I reject all and any deities, but atheist is not my identity. I do not look at reality through 'atheism' as one with a specific thology or philosophy would.

For me the only thought and debate that has meaning and value is that which relates to survival of the individual and the species. Food, water, shelter for example.

All else across the philosophical and religious discourse is trivial and pointless. An escapefrom the realitynof ur finite exstence in the ecosystem.

Gnostic Christian, there are Jewish Christians, Methodists, Sunni Muslims all of it the same to me. Each group feels superior and unique in some way.

In our liveral western systems with free speech abd free association we are all free to pick what we like to believe in.

I do not see the harm the god believers do to women and gays as trivial.

You are correct in that people choose that vile satanic Christian god to follow.

They call evil good and that is why I try to bring decent morals to their poor beliefs.

Regards
DL

A gnarly Gnostic, you don't see that everyday.

Chis tans given all the negatives for us atheists, are generally fundamentally happy people form my experience. That is really what beliefs are about. Sleeping well without worry and conflict.

Freemasons have secret rituals and handshakes. They give themselves titles. I am sure it makes them feel good. That is really what beliefs are all about, idenity, ,connubity amn most of all just plan feeling good.

From Descartes , " Apply yourself to that which can be solved, leave the rest to the astrologers". Meaning leave the woo and theology to the theologians and astrologers, apply yourself to something useful, my life mantra as an engineer. Intyersting as he was educated by Jesuits. Debting belifs based on an histical figure wh0 may b not have catualy es xisted and if he did left little in the way teachings as comared to say Buddha or Confucius is fine to pass the time, but is rather pointless. Up there with how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

You sound like some of the crazier Evangelicals on TV and radio ranting about evil non believers.

Something I take as a fundamental Christian principle, anger and hostility is more about the negative affect on yourself rather than on those you direct your anger and a hatred to. In modern psychology, you have 'ii sues' and take it it out on imaginary enemies. Mentally unhealthy.

Malice towards none.

Fill in the blanks. Happiness is ____.

There are indeed benefits to living a delusional life. The illusion of fellowship and protection is beneficial.

It is all a product of selfishness.

I forgo those for the health of my mind, as I think supernatural belief is for the more stupid of us.

If you cannot see the benefits of fighting evil, that is a shame.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

s b

You do not seem to like hate.

Hate is born from love and has it's function.

When you form a love bond, like all of us, this love bias forms a hate bias against anything that would jeopardize that which you love.

If you love all friends and family, and believe in equality, you will hate the homophobes and misogynous genocidal god lovers just as much as I do, as they put your friends and family in jeopardy and hardships.

If you are not man or woman enough for that, -------

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Malice towards none.

He takes your coat, give your shirt as well.

Love the one rapping your wife and offer your daughter as his next.

All the same foolish thinking.


If we either love all unconditionally, or have malice towards none, then no one is special to us.

I offer my sympathy to such thinking.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

At least you are honest.

An old story.

A guru is lecturing hs students on the sanctity of life. He is a saying 'all life is sacred' when a fly lands on his node. He gently nudges it away saying yiu must check yiur shoes in the morning lr ed ts there be a bug inside.

The fly land on his knee and he crushes it with his hand.

His students are horrified. The guru says, 'And one last thing, never let anyone walk all over ypu'.

You confuse pacifism with the idea of treating ohers with a little respect and compassion daily life.

I eve at the edge of downtown Seattle which over the few yeras has become progessivly more violent and overrun by somethies crazy homeless peole. We have prope doing drugs at ur front dppr.

In the 1 /2 yers I have been living here I have had sveral confrontaions.

When I hot out pf the militray in the early 70s I staRTed out in rough neighborhoods in Hartford Bt. Drug dealers and pimps. A hooker lived above me in a romming house.

I doubt there is much you can tell me about reality. I am no passivist. How I lok at things come from expernce not some imaginary Jesus 2000 years ago. If somebody puts their hands on me I will do what it takes to survive. I kow how to use my cane.

My point to yiu was ethics and morality. Do yiu follow the alleged words of Jesus or do you a pick and choose, moral subjectivism. Remake something to fit and rationalize your views, which is the other OP topic. It is what Christians do in general.

So, my conclusion is Gnostic Christianity based on your words is no different than any other version. No moral distinction, some good people some assholes like anything else.

All that being said, I don't go around hating the homeless and the drug addicts, some in my building do. There is no point to it, and it only serves to bring you down.

My pot is you demonize Christians, and there are probably Christians who demonize Gnostics as evil. Six a one half a doznn the other.

To me all the same thing. Groups need an enemy or outsider to focus on and bond members.

I watched a Nazis animation that was shown in theaters picturing Jews as disease carrying rats and vermin. Pretty ugly stuff. I don't know you obviously and I am not calling Gnostic Nazis, however your words are in the same lvein.

Nazis rationalized superiority by focusing on those evil Jews., You demonize Christians as evil and Satanic.

If I ever choose religion, Gnostic Christianity will be at the bottom of the list below Church Of Satan.

Overall Gnostic Christianity sounds syncretic. A hodge podge kludge of different beliefs, akin to Theosophy or Pantheism or Paganism.

Keep in mind to me all religious beliefs be it for the better or worse are all self delusions mostly about a personal identity and a feeling of uniqueness.

 

[Politesse]

As a frequent visitor to a Gnostic Christian congregation, I would like to object that the good bishop is using that term to refer to something very different from its usual meaning; he is not, and I do not think is trying to be, representative of the ancient denomination of the same name. Our congregation certainly doesn't valorize hate, this would be problematic on more than one level, ethically of course but also indicative of a misguided cosmology, as from a Gnostic perspective, nothing worth hating actually exists; evil is a projection of the archons, and cannot be destroyed, only be escaped by the liberation of the soul.

 

[steve_bank]

I do not care what you belive. When I was rehabbing in a nursing home there was a oung Jeish volunteer. He war a yamika, the traditional Jewish head cover.

II can respect it, but it means absolutely nothing to me. To an observant Jew it has meaning.

If I have you as a coworker or a neighbor what matters to me is yur ethics.

When you speak can I take you at face value?
If you are a coworker will you act out your personal bias and views in decision making?
Are you reliable, if you make a commitment will you keep to it?
Do you do what you say?
Are yu hostile to those who you disagree with?

And a few others, my point is there are basic ehtics required for a function society. It doesn't matter where you derive them/

If someone clams to be a follower of Christ or any other figure do they act in accordance with teachings? If not then I label them unreliable and not trustworthy.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If I ever choose religion, Gnostic Christianity will be at the bottom of the list below Church Of Satan.
.

The religion that used inquisitions on us had the same ides, but for you to say we are below evilk shows you have no clue ar to what Gnostic Christianity is.

If you think they are better from a moral standpoint, you are an moral misfit just like Christians are.

Make your case or get lost.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Keep in mind to me all religious beliefs be it for the better or worse are all self delusions mostly about a personal identity and a feeling of uniqueness.

I do have something I have yet to proof though.

I doubt you will know what I am talking about.

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Religions are tribes. So are the various non-believing tribes.

Tribal leaders and shaman are the ones to be emulated by all of us so that we might become better than they are and depose them.

It’s like Jesus ascending and retiring God by taking the righthand judges’ seat. Jesus, in effect; deposed his father. As things should be in a hierarchical progressive species like ours.

Leaders and shaman are the only ones who can claim being Greatest I am at any given point in time.

Religiously speaking, we want to and are encouraged by scriptures to try to emulate whatever we think of as God. God’s best-known speaker is analogically, Greatest I am.

Individually speaking, even you were born, instinctively speaking; thinking you were the fittest of your genetic line. In that sense, your ultimate raison d'être and dream, even if you can come up with some other analogy in religious terms; is you want to be known as the greatest at something, including God.

Upon birth, your first thought was, I am.

Your second thought was, where is the Greatest I am so that I might be his friend, and depose him with better justice?

Who are the fittest you are now to compete with, to prove your fitness, is your next enlightenment.

This is all of us seeking idols to emulate and depose the current icon in our chosen competitions.

Jesus asks us to idolize ourselves, loosely of course, by asking us in scriptures, “have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?”

I have not given up my spiritual, religious, or political efforts to be seen as the greatest at something.

I am not Jesus, but I am curious. Have you given up on your religious birth rite to be a god?

That would disappoint Jesus.

Have you given up your genetic birth rite to be the fittest and excel in some field?

That would disappoint your ancestors. They came from nature and nature demonstrably creates for the best possible end.

I see it as a shame when someone stops competing to be the greatest at something.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

As a frequent visitor to a Gnostic Christian congregation, I would like to object that the good bishop is using that term to refer to something very different from its usual meaning; he is not, and I do not think is trying to be, representative of the ancient denomination of the same name. Our congregation certainly doesn't valorize hate, this would be problematic on more than one level, ethically of course but also indicative of a misguided cosmology, as from a Gnostic perspective, nothing worth hating actually exists; evil is a projection of the archons, and cannot be destroyed, only be escaped by the liberation of the soul.

Sounds supernatural.

We do not hold any supernatural beliefs.

We do not read our myths literally and no one else should neither.

The wisdom saying can be, but we do not know who originally said them.

As to hating evil.

If you do not, you are not worthy of calling yourself good.

If you can walk by evil and not hate it and try to end it, or glorify things like genocide, a huge evil that Christians venerate as good, then moral misfit would apply.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Christian vs Christian
Muslim vs Muslim
Muslim vs Hindu


Now Gnostic vs Gnostic. Just when I thought I could no longer be supposed by religion and ideology.

 

[Politesse]

Christian vs Christian
Muslim vs Muslim
Muslim vs Hindu


Now Gnostic vs Gnostic. Just when I thought I could no longer be supposed by religion and ideology.

Yes, religion did indeed invent disagreements.

 

[steve_bank]

Keep in mind to me all religious beliefs be it for the better or worse are all self delusions mostly about a personal identity and a feeling of uniqueness.

I do have something I have yet to proof though.

I doubt you will know what I am talking about.

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Religions are tribes. So are the various non-believing tribes.

Tribal leaders and shaman are the ones to be emulated by all of us so that we might become better than they are and depose them.

It’s like Jesus ascending and retiring God by taking the righthand judges’ seat. Jesus, in effect; deposed his father. As things should be in a hierarchical progressive species like ours.

Leaders and shaman are the only ones who can claim being Greatest I am at any given point in time.

Religiously speaking, we want to and are encouraged by scriptures to try to emulate whatever we think of as God. God’s best-known speaker is analogically, Greatest I am.

Individually speaking, even you were born, instinctively speaking; thinking you were the fittest of your genetic line. In that sense, your ultimate raison d'être and dream, even if you can come up with some other analogy in religious terms; is you want to be known as the greatest at something, including God.

Upon birth, your first thought was, I am.

Your second thought was, where is the Greatest I am so that I might be his friend, and depose him with better justice?

Who are the fittest you are now to compete with, to prove your fitness, is your next enlightenment.

This is all of us seeking idols to emulate and depose the current icon in our chosen competitions.

Jesus asks us to idolize ourselves, loosely of course, by asking us in scriptures, “have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?”

I have not given up my spiritual, religious, or political efforts to be seen as the greatest at something.

I am not Jesus, but I am curious. Have you given up on your religious birth rite to be a god?

That would disappoint Jesus.

Have you given up your genetic birth rite to be the fittest and excel in some field?

That would disappoint your ancestors. They came from nature and nature demonstrably creates for the best possible end.

I see it as a shame when someone stops competing to be the greatest at something.

Regards
DL

Amen brother....you slink it like the nest Christians. An emdles strem, sometimes called stream of consiousness. It just flows endlessly on and on and on.

I an sure preaching makes you feel good. Current science says it s all about inducing production of endorphins, it is the chemical in your brain that gives you that good all over holy feeling.

The truth and nothin' but the truth . So help me____, fill in the blank.

I have no case to make. As I said in the real world what matters to me are basic pronciples readlderives them.

Most religions and moral philosophies boil down to a common set of daily values expressed in different forms. The problem is the practice and substituting blind ritual without understanding..

The Golden Rule, treat people like you want to be treated. In the real world obviusly easier said than fone. One does not always get back in reyurn. And that leads into a general decusion of moral philopshy from Machivlli and all that matters is power to Buddhism and universal compassin.

As do most theists you reduce a complex social issue to a few quotes from a scripture.

The western systems are in dire need of a costnet moral philosphy as socialan covil order is breaking down.

Fiffling while Rome birns is the aparoraite metaphor right now.

When food starts running low your beliefs will not put food in your mouth. When there are riots in the streets your briefs will not protect you.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Christian vs Christian
Muslim vs Muslim
Muslim vs Hindu


Now Gnostic vs Gnostic. Just when I thought I could no longer be supposed by religion and ideology.

??

What Gnostic Christian vs Gnostic Christian?

No Gnostic Christian is stupid enough to try and fail at showing Christianity as a moral religion.

If morals are not what you compare, given that those are what religions sell, then there is no Gnostic against Gnostic tension that I can see.

Who is this vile ass, so that I might show him or her the right way to think.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Christian vs Christian
Muslim vs Muslim
Muslim vs Hindu


Now Gnostic vs Gnostic. Just when I thought I could no longer be supposed by religion and ideology.

Yes, religion did indeed invent disagreements.

Yes, and moral progress, until the literal reading of myths dumbed down the whole world.

Satan actually did deceive the majority of the world, especially when Inquisitions and Jihads come out with their proof.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

[
When food starts running low your beliefs will not put food in your mouth. When there are riots in the streets your briefs will not protect you.

My protection starts at self protection as I am an adult.

When push comes to shove, if one expect ones protection to begin in some supernatural realm, and not in ones self, tey are truly fools.

Man creates all the gods and we should not let ourselves be subsumed by them.

Fools will bend the knee to their own inventions.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Fiddling while Rome burns is an apt metaphor.

Russian and Chinese communism thought they woud create a just society in part bt attmpting to get rid of religion. Both enede up being some of the worse regimes in history.

It was impossible to eliminate, people had a need and want for it. In China it went underground. Chima softed on relgion somewhat and tries to regulate it to limit it being used as political resistance.

They presume to appoint the Dal Lama.

The attitude of Gnosic Christian has been shown to lead to opression, a presumption of ultamte correctness.

Diverse beliefs that stay within civil law on behavior is the best solution, however messy it gets. Separation of church and state.

Gnostic's apparent attitude demonstrably leads to centralized power.

I wold never advocate the elimination and suppression of religious beliefs. If anything it is enlightened self interest. Protection of diversity in beliefs protects me. The consequences are far worse, evidenced by Russian communism, Chinese communism, and North Korea. Cuba has softened on relgion and actually had a Papal visit..

 

[DrZoidberg]

Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat.

I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved?

Regards
DL

Also, if we don't sin Jesus died for nothing. So not sinning is also a sin.